Anyone else obsessed with shmups but have zero skill?

[casualcoder]

Shadowbringer put it best. There is nothing more rewarding than seeing yourself improve your skills and those improvements are most noticeable when just starting out. So long as you are willing to stick with it, and it appears you are, you WILL get better. My recommendations are to try to master one game. Choose a game that you can play endlessly and just try to get a 1cc on it. Don't worry if it takes months, or more. Mastery in one game often translates into better play in others. Also go on YouTube and study superplays of your favorite games. Keep having fun. You're not competing with anyone other than your own goals you set.

[EmperorIng]

Typical shmups forum thread.

The real question is: how many loops of Gradius do you have to complete before you can say you've "beaten" Gradius?

[Hagane]

No such a thing as "zero skill". Maybe your practice methods have been subpar, maybe you don't analyze the game enough or lack in the basics and just try to avoid everything on reaction, but even though not everyone can be a top player (and some definitely have a much harder time with STGs than others) anyone can at least clear some games with the right mindset and some discipline.

[casualcoder]

Fast forward over a decade after dedication and practice I'm able to clear just about any cave game...

That's funny, because from a quick glance over your 1CC list it appears you haven't cleared all that many.

Mushi/Futari Maniac
Galuda 1 & 2
Deathsmiles (I'm assuming that's not Death mode lv.2 either)
Akai Katana
ESP Ra.De.

But yeah, can clear just about any...

P.S. a 1-ALL is only half the game.

You forgot DDP DFK BL.

p.s. a 1-All is first loop clear. I didn't claim I was clearing the 2nd loops. I think you are being kinda a dipshit with your post.

The guy had to actually take the time to research your stated 1cc history. I'd say that's pretty flattering. If anything, the list pretty much proved the original statement. Sure, ddp is not on the list as of when the list was made but with all the ESP games in the bag I wouldn't bet against a 1cc in any others in the Cave catalogue. All of the shmup police on here really need to get a life. It's really hard not picturing a severely nearsighted virgin buried in a pile of stale nachos and anime comics when raging against others achievements.

[Deca]

The real question is: how many loops of Gradius do you have to complete before you can say you've "beaten" Gradius?

If you're playing Gradius you've already lost.

On topic: Yes, me and just about everyone else on this board.

[Edmond Dantes]

anime comics

They're called "manga."

Yeah, I had to say that.

[Paradigm]

raging against others achievements.

I wasn't raging against anybody's 'achievements'.

It was simply a boastful statement that as it turns out, had no merit.

[Special World]

Nobody makes R-Type style games for the mass market because nobody makes scrolling shooters for the mass market, period. Companies appeal to the niche fans, because the niche fans are the only ones who will pay for these games. And the niche fans mostly want bullet hell.

Still, there are plenty of classic scrollers being made. Dux and Hydorah, for example.

Aldo, there's a reason you don't see rotation and scaling. Developers use 3D graphics. You don't need to scale anything.

Well 3D maybe so. But it isn't used in creative ways. Almost all the games i've seen recently have very flat gameplay that involves dodging more than shooting. Most of the time your not even aiming because your concentrating on the bullet patterns.

I didn't like Dux, well I did like the idea, it just wasn't presented that well. I'll have a look at Hydorah.

I would say bullet hells more than make up for a lack of aimed shooting. The patterns are gorgeous and often provide more variety than "don't hit top or bottom and don't hit that floating island," and the scoring systems are really the heart of the games. Maybe that shot can hit everything onscreen, but if you want a high score you'd better know when to stop. Aiming hasn't been of central concern past the earliest of shooters like Space Invaders, Defender, and Galaga. There's some thought put into your aim in games like R-type, Gate of Thunder, and Star Soldier, but dodging and survival is a much more primary concern, with aiming requiring little thought on its own.

I don't think either style of game is better, though I do really think designer scoring systems like those in Raiden Fighters Jet/Batrider/Dodonpachi/etc elevated the genre to new heights.

If you're looking for a modern shooter where aiming is central, check out Eschatos on 360. There's a budget version out now for ~$40. It spans the entire range of shooters, from wave-based Invaders style to manic to full-on bullet hell, but does so in a more classic-style ship that alternates between straight shot, spread shot, and shield. There's a lot of thought put into enemy placement and optimal weapon use, and the game comes with Judgement Silversword and Cardinal Sins, which arguably do just as good a job with similar systems. Judgement Silversword in particular is about deciding when to close in on enemies and batter them with your shield, versus when to take out hordes of weaker enemies with spread shot or straight shot.

raging against others achievements.

I wasn't raging against anybody's 'achievements'.

It was simply a boastful statement that as it turns out, had no merit.

If you have to look up information on somebody to try and prove them wrong when they haven't done anything negative or harmful, then you're just being a dick for no reason. Give it a rest. I don't mind chempop comparing that list of games he's beaten to the rest of Cave's catalog, but I do care about people constantly feeling compelled to be dicks on the internet. I'm not saying you're an insufferable dick in general; you could be a very decent person. But just relax and be positive. The internet's full of negative energy and we'd be better off making something positive out of it.

[Squire Grooktook]

No such a thing as "zero skill". Maybe your practice methods have been subpar, maybe you don't analyze the game enough or lack in the basics and just try to avoid everything on reaction, but even though not everyone can be a top player (and some definitely have a much harder time with STGs than others) anyone can at least clear some games with the right mindset and some discipline.

I agree and disagree very slightly. I think it's possible to start out with zero skill because analysis, strategy, execution, reaction, and such are all skills that need to be trained and cultivated.

That being said, anyone can cultivate these skills with not too much time, and it's definitely true that anyone can clear most games with a little bit of perseverance.

[chempop]

Paradigm wrote:

It was simply a boastful statement that as it turns out, had no merit.

The point I was making is that when I started getting into cave's titles they seemed impossible, but with practice and dedication I have got 1CC or 1-All nearly two thirds of their games.

Every cave title (with the exception of Guwange and Pink Sweets) that I have put time into - I have either got 1CC or 1-All. Guwange's final pattern is keeping me from the 1CC and Pink Sweets is outright murder. If you have a problem with this, I suggest masturbation.

[pablumatic]

I play these games because I like them and think they're fun. Not to be competitive, get the highest scores/rankings, or 1cc them. My goal in all cases is to just beat the games and enjoy the experience along the way. Which is how I treat all other video game genres.

This does draw a line as what type of shooters I'll play. I've been increasingly left out of the newer games, specifically the bullet hell type, as those aren't fun for me.

I wouldn't call myself inept at playing shooters, but I'm certainly not in the range of the competitive player.

[Super Laydock]

The real question is: how many loops of Gradius do you have to complete before you can say you've "beaten" Gradius?

If you're playing Gradius you've already lost.

I'm probably missing some sarcasm, or other inside joke here.
If not care to tell what you mean by that?

On topic: wouldn't say zero skill, but aside from memorizers I usually suck big time.

[Deca]

I just don't like Gradius at all :p

I don't actually think it's a horrible game, it's just not my style even a little. Salamander 2 kind of pleasantly surprised me during STGT though.

[Super Laydock]

I just don't like Gradius at all :p

I don't actually think it's a horrible game, it's just not my style even a little.

fair enough.
To each his own I guess.

I personally resent SI: Infinity Gene.

[Squire Grooktook]

I'm a borderline fanboy for Gradius.

Snes Gradius 3 was the first shmup I really played seriously.

[Tigershark]

Given the elitist nature of some of the posting in this forum I think it's important that these posts pop up from time to time.

I love these games but pretty terrible at them. When we have the annual STG competition my goal is to get above the bottom third. Don't always do it. Doesn't stop me playing.

The truth is I don't have time to put the practice in. That's ok though. I still enjoy playing and that's the most important thing.

To put this into perspective, the most time I've put towards a shmup is Mushi 1.5 on Xbox360 and I still could only get to level 4 on 1 credit.

Favourite game? That's a tie between Batsugun and Battle Garegga (the latter a close second on time spent on a game - still only get to level 4 on 1 credit!).

Who cares.

Happy shooting.