Anyone else obsessed with shmups but have zero skill?

[OdiousTrident]

I may love this genre more than any other... but I'm a terrible player. I'm probably worse than the average guy picking up a game and playing it for the first time. Anyone else share this pain? A scientific explanation wouldn't hurt either.

[Udderdude]

Shmups are, on average, harder than other genres. It's not just you, most people getting into shmups feel like they're facing a steep climb, and it's definitely real.

What shmups are you playing and having trouble with?

[shadowbringer]

some thoughts:

- "it's not about how good you are, but how much you can improve"
- every new routine (game system, not limited to STGs, or new job, etc.), or at least most of them are frustrating to adapt to. Some aren't as frustrating as others, but anyways, give the games (you're playing) a serious chance before deciding to not invest time on them (if you have other games in mind, or other activities). Even if you choose to drop a game, you can always revisit it later.
- you don't have to decide to fully commit yourself to a game (or few games) too soon; you can (for example) play a game, decide that you like it enough to "advance the relationship" (lol) and spend more time.
- still about frustration, it's (imho) a misconception that "trying the hardest you can" can help you improve faster; if you take rests once in a while, you may be able to see (from other viewpoints) what were the flaws in your gameplan (where/when did you die, what could've been done to avoid said situation or how to deal with said situation), better than just trying the same things over and over. Let your subconscious mind help you internalize your practice sessions, respect the time that it takes to internalize them.
- don't be ashamed of looking for other people's strategies, or for abusing stage practice/save states/credit feeding. How to use the knowledge you acquire is more important than who found it first.
- with practice comes (among other things) execution, reaction speed, memorization (of what to do next, so you don't feel as anxious and pressured into not committing mistakes or wasting a good run, at least not until late in a good run), and ship/bullet hitbox knowledge (in the case of bullet hells, previously intimidating patterns become less so as you see larger gaps that you couldn't see before).

[TLB]

I would discuss this at length but truly improving requires sustained thought. I'd also like to be paid handsomely for it.

[chempop]

It has been said countless times, but you have to start somewhere.

Back when I got seriously addicted to shmups back in 2000 I was happy dumping credits just to see how crazy the final boss was. It wasn't until years later when I improved my setup (by actual sitting closer to the TV) that I started noticing a big improvement in my ability. Around that time I tried a few cave games and thought they were impossible.

Fast forward over a decade after dedication and practice I'm able to clear just about any cave game... it's the old school titles that still kick my ass though. The fun for me started with blowing stuff up, but now it's all about feeling like I am doing the impossible. Keep at it, there will be hours of frustration and moments of bliss, that's what the genre is all about.

I highly suggest finding the right distance between you and the TV, finding a controller or arcade stick that you like, and remember to sleep enough and take vitamins

[Softdrink 117]

I completely agree with everything that's already been said. Just going to pop in here with one of my favorite quotes:

If you ever want to be great at anything, you must first be willing to be terrible at it.

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

I just look at it this way. At least when I get a shmup game it's guaranteed to have plenty of replay value because I will more than likely never finish it.

[jasoncslaughter]

It wasn't until years later when I improved my setup (by actual sitting closer to the TV) that I started noticing a big improvement in my ability.

This was a big difference for me as well. I started playing shmups on a TV that was 10 feet away, and I was beyond terrible. Proper distance and finding a consistent control setup is essential in my opinion. Having a cab was a big moment for me as well, as I found it to be the perfect setup for me in terms of control and distance (especially given my shitty eyesight).

[Nasirosuchus]

I first got into schmups around 2006 but I was mostly just an on and off player. I didn't get really serious until the end of 2010 and didn't get my first 1CC until February 2011.

Some things that helped me:

-As previously stated, find the proper distance from the display that you're using. I struggled playing several feet away from a television. I then started playing exclusively on my PC after finding out that the distance to the monitor was perfect. Also, find a stick or a d-pad that you're comfortable with. For me, I found that PlayStation controllers are the best.
-Save states. These can help you memorize and perfect difficult parts of the game. You'll be surprised at the way stages that you once thought were impossible become rather easy one you get seasoned and you know what's coming.
-It's okay to credit feed. Sometimes I just play through a game and see how many credits it takes me to clear it. When I see the number of required credits decreasing, I know that I'm improving.
-Take breaks. If you've been grinding for a long time and you notice your play starting to suffer a bit, then it helps to back away and look at things with your third eye.
-Don't give up. This is a very difficult genre. It's easy to watch videos on youtube and see other players clearing this game with seemingly minimal effort but don't forget that most of them were pretty terrible at one point themselves and they had to practice to clear these games as well. No matter what it is, if you want to see success, then you have to practice, practice, practice.
-This is to add to the previous point. Remember that before you get your first 1CC, you will go through a lot of hell. You will die A LOT. That being said, try to look at it in terms of improvement. Are you better than you were a month ago?

[Zerst]

I think most of us are in the same boat. I've been playing shmups for many years now but still feel like I'm awful at them. That doesn't make it any less exciting to get a new personal best, regardless of where you're at.

[Pyongyang]

I have a ludicrously unhealthy obesession with SHMUPS and I'm bloody terrible at all of them!

[Squire Grooktook]

Skill is not something your born with, it's something you must reach out and grasp with your vision and will.

In other words practice practice practice. I doubt there are many people upon this Earth who can dodge all the bullets and no miss a game on their first try (Keanu Reaves maybe?). For the rest of us, trial and error, practice, and tactics exist to even the playing field.

But most importantly don't get mad when you die, it's a game, it's meant to be enjoyed and had fun with. You should train yourself to enjoy the fun and excitement of the game, even when you are defeated. While my victories are the moments that I always remember, I have an unfathomable amount of enjoyment from many runs, not just the ones where I reached my goals.

[neorichieb1971]

I'm not terrible but I'm not hardcore either. When I play a shmup I'm looking for something most of you probably are not. Mesmerizing music, pretty graphics and oldschool shmup play. Most of the time we get none. I'm not a big fan of Cave stuff, ESP ra.de is my favourite with Mushimesama being a distant second (out of the ones I've played).

Much prefer the sort of gameplay you get with Raiden or Flying Shark, but with todays upgraded graphics. Unfortunately thats not happening more than once every 8 years or so lol.

Therefore the time invested by myself in the shmup genre is very little. With months going by without having picked up one. I am searching these forums weekly for news of a game I will like.

I can reach the last stage of most shmups. But seldom can I beat a game on 1cc. I think Gradius 1 first loop is all I've done.

[exquisite_torture]

I love shmups. The first games that seemed important to me were Tiger Heli, Slap Fight and Flying Shark.
I'd never say I was particularly good at scrolling shooters, I can get to maybe level 3 in DoDon Pachi Resurrection without dying.
However, this doesn't dull my enjoyment of them, I think the genre deserves continued support as an alternative to samey AAA games which have seem to have plateaued.

[Special World]

Yeah, I feel like shooters and fighting games require some sort of analytical perspective that I'm just not getting. I'm able to pick up and learn games extremely easily, but rarely do I actually spend the time and focus to get great at a game, and I think that you have to really study to get to that point. So I just keep playing Cave games and getting smacked down, but I have fun chasing my own scores. I've 1CCed some easier games (Futari Black, Eschatos, and Gate of Thunder spring to mind) but maybe I'll just get better over time. I do think I want to sit closer to the TV, but I'm close enough as it is. Maybe one day I'll have the money for a cab and then I can get right up close.

Tbh I just really don't worry about it. Never ever will I be as good as top or probably even middling players. But I have tons of fun chasing my own goals. The only problem arises when there is a totally awesome game that shuts me down before the fourth level, like Ketsui. I'd really love to play through all that game without feeding, but those patterns are just nasty.

[KAI]

IIDX is harder.

[Jeneki]

Oh yea, I've heard several people say the "obsesssed but no skill" line about IIDX as well. The barrier for entry (controller) generally stops it from being an impulse buy.

[CptRansom]

IIDX controller is the only thing that ever stopped me from getting into IIDX. =(

/contributingtothederail

[neorichieb1971]

They should make a shmup where time rewards you with bigger weapons. At least that way you get to see all the game you paid for without relying on youtubes. The games that are currently available are all aimed at the same diehard fanatics. Gone are the days of Delta, Katakis etc.. Where you could actually see the patterns without squinting your eyes.

Take R-type.. Magnificent game. Yet nobody will make another R-type "type" game for the mass market. I don't really understand why. Perhaps the game designers of the era pushed the hardware as far as it will go, now they are doing the same with todays hardware which is pushing the boundary of extremism.

Plus, I am a fan of all that rotation, scaling stuff that used to happen. Last I saw of that was on RSG.

On another note, I have the MVS of 1945 plus. Even if I set the game to level 1 on difficulty, by the time I reach level 4 or 5 the rank has increased the game to level 8 . It gets to the point of being ridiculous.

Work needs to be done. People like some of the old style shmups. Its not about bullet hell all the time.

[Special World]

Nobody makes R-Type style games for the mass market because nobody makes scrolling shooters for the mass market, period. Companies appeal to the niche fans, because the niche fans are the only ones who will pay for these games. And the niche fans mostly want bullet hell.

Still, there are plenty of classic scrollers being made. Dux and Hydorah, for example.

Aldo, there's a reason you don't see rotation and scaling. Developers use 3D graphics. You don't need to scale anything.

[kamiboy]

Arcade shooters were the FPS of their time. There were so many, many, many of them. Hundreds of classic titles are available to be discovered on 16 bit consoles. The number increases if you include MAME and other generations.

Why lament the fact that no more of this or that type of shooter is being made unless you already somehow played every single worthwhile of the sort developed and released back in the day?

Back during the start of this generation I was very much depressed with the west being back to running the console side of things and Japan faltering. So few games I enjoy are being made I thought. But then I realized I only got to play a fraction of the good stuff that has already been made.

I haven't really bought any modern games for the last two years but I am still playing just as much as I used to in the good old days. Thanks to ebay you can wind back time.

As for being proper terrible at classic shooters. Who needs skills when you have dogged determination. Might take me hundreds of lives to beat something like Super R-Type but I keep at it and eventually I'll beat that last boss and have the last laugh.

[neorichieb1971]

Nobody makes R-Type style games for the mass market because nobody makes scrolling shooters for the mass market, period. Companies appeal to the niche fans, because the niche fans are the only ones who will pay for these games. And the niche fans mostly want bullet hell.

Still, there are plenty of classic scrollers being made. Dux and Hydorah, for example.

Aldo, there's a reason you don't see rotation and scaling. Developers use 3D graphics. You don't need to scale anything.

Well 3D maybe so. But it isn't used in creative ways. Almost all the games i've seen recently have very flat gameplay that involves dodging more than shooting. Most of the time your not even aiming because your concentrating on the bullet patterns.

I didn't like Dux, well I did like the idea, it just wasn't presented that well. I'll have a look at Hydorah.

[powersoul]

I used to stink at "those aeroplane games", which a decade later I learnt them to be shmups. Spotted deathsmiles one day at my local arcade, then thought about how I sucked at shmups, decides to try it, and today I love shmups a lot, even though I don't count myself as a master or expert.

Basically its one genre that is never the same; don't expect to run the exact same way as you do just one run ago. No matter how much you memorize, something unexpected will always happen, keeping you on the edge.

Having zero skills is fine, its the passion.

[Paradigm]

Fast forward over a decade after dedication and practice I'm able to clear just about any cave game...

That's funny, because from a quick glance over your 1CC list it appears you haven't cleared all that many.

Mushi/Futari Maniac
Galuda 1 & 2
Deathsmiles (I'm assuming that's not Death mode lv.2 either)
Akai Katana
ESP Ra.De.

But yeah, can clear just about any...

P.S. a 1-ALL is only half the game.

[Edmond Dantes]

I may love this genre more than any other... but I'm a terrible player. I'm probably worse than the average guy picking up a game and playing it for the first time. Anyone else share this pain? A scientific explanation wouldn't hurt either.

I... kinda do. Recently I've been able to complete some shmups (usually console ones like Thunder Force III and the NES version of Dragon Spirit) so I guess I'm not absolutely terrible, but put me up against, say, an arcade Gradius game and I can't seem to get past the Maoi Head stage... not without dying at least once, anyway.

I agree with the others here though, all you can do is Refuse to Quit. Die, try again, and keep trying until you win.

[Vexorg]

I wouldn't call myself "Obsessed" with shmups these days, but I do still play a fair bit. I've never managed a "Real" 1CC on anything, and in most Danmaku games I'm hard-pressed to get past stage 3. I could probably practice more and get better, but I've never really put the time into it.

[chempop]

Fast forward over a decade after dedication and practice I'm able to clear just about any cave game...

That's funny, because from a quick glance over your 1CC list it appears you haven't cleared all that many.

Mushi/Futari Maniac
Galuda 1 & 2
Deathsmiles (I'm assuming that's not Death mode lv.2 either)
Akai Katana
ESP Ra.De.

But yeah, can clear just about any...

P.S. a 1-ALL is only half the game.

You forgot DDP DFK BL.

p.s. a 1-All is first loop clear. I didn't claim I was clearing the 2nd loops. I think you are being kinda a dipshit with your post.

[EmperorIng]

Fast forward over a decade after dedication and practice I'm able to clear just about any cave game...

That's funny, because from a quick glance over your 1CC list it appears you haven't cleared all that many.

Mushi/Futari Maniac
Galuda 1 & 2
Deathsmiles (I'm assuming that's not Death mode lv.2 either)
Akai Katana
ESP Ra.De.

But yeah, can clear just about any...

P.S. a 1-ALL is only half the game.

Typical shmups forum post.

[chum]

Typical shmups forum thread.

[Some-Mist]

after getting a hands on with ikaruga and psyvariar 2, and working months on a 1CC in both (including gluon in psyvariar 2) I knew I found my new niche.

I then found CAVE and Raizing shmups and have been insanely addicted ever since - unfortunately I've only been able to 1CC the easier CAVE titles in the past few years. Like anything, it just takes practice. I've been trying SO hard to 1CC futari black label maniac, but I always have 0 lives going into stage 5

so in response to your thread: addicted? yes. good? nope, but getting better.