J360 A/V Question

[chronic1]

Hello Everyone,

I'm looking at taking the plunge into a J360 setup, and I don't expect to have a HDMI port. I've noticed more than a few online complaints about VGA connections on digital displays. The complaints range from incompatibility for the highest resolutions to general poor visual quality.

I've have a xrgb-mini, and am wondering if this cable is the ideal J360 connection: http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-de- ... -11qr.html? Assuming I have the video going to the mini & the audio going to my receiver (I assume the xbox has digital audio via coax or optical), should I expect issues with lag or AV sync?

Thanks for any advice!

[Fudoh]

If you have a VGA port on your TV, then I would use a VGA cable instead. Also allows you to add a scanline box for your Cave favorites.

[chronic1]

Hey there Fudoh,

As always, thanks for the information! I didn't know if there were any output-based resolution limitations with the 360. Both my display & receiver have a VGA connector; the local GameStop should have an official VGA cable. I suppose the receiver will get the connection since everything else runs through it....

Regarding what you mentioned in the previous message.

Also allows you to add a scanline box for your Cave favorites.

Is the scanline box a feature built into the game's software?

Thanks!

[Fudoh]

I suppose the receiver will get the connection since everything else runs through it....

The VGA cable has both a stereo RCA connection and an optical SPDIF output for 5.1.

Is the scanline box a feature built into the game's software?

only one (or two?) of the Cave titles have built in scanlines. With scanline box I meant a SLG3000, RetroVGA or Mini-SLG.

[chronic1]

Do you have a preferred scanline box? (yeap...cost is a preference )

Given the mini's ability to create scanlines, would it be an acceptable box? ...but I think I remembered some resolution limitations when generating scanlines with the current firmware.

[HydrogLox]

I'm looking at taking the plunge into a J360 setup, and I don't expect to have a HDMI port.

Why? Are you saying your display doesn't have another HDMI input or are you expecting to buy an NTSC-J Xbox 360 without an HDMI output? A newer XBox 360 S will have an HDMI output and considering the precarious implementation of "pre-XBox 360 S" models you should endeavor to acquire at least a Jasper model which will have an HDMI port. HDMI ports started appearing on Elites in 2007 and by 2009 all manufactured units had an HDMI port.

I've noticed more than a few online complaints about VGA connections on digital displays. The complaints range from incompatibility for the highest resolutions to general poor visual quality.

Really? In general VGA inputs are preferred as they tend to have the least amount of display lag. This also means that there is less or no image processing which some people may see as "poor visual quality". Personally I've haven't had any problems - but I'm using the ridiculously expensive official Microsoft Xbox 360 VGA cable ($49.95) - and on flat/widescreen TVs I tend to select their native resolution, typically 1280×720 or 1920×1080. Some TVs have problems with 640 x 480 - but I considered that more of a Dreamcast problem rather than an Xbox 360 problem.

I've have a xrgb-mini, and am wondering if this cable is the ideal J360 connection: Xbox360 D Terminal HD AV Cable?

If you are hell bent on connecting an HDMI-less Xbox 360 to an XRGB-mini that cable should work - but as an XRGB-mini owner you should already have also acquired a D-Terminal to Component Adapter Cable (Female) (i.e. if you don't have one - get one). With that you can use an Xbox360 Component HD AV Cable that you can buy used at "GameStop/EB Games". These first generation original Microsoft switchable composite/component cables go for about $5-10 used. These cables were sold separately but also shipped with Elites but they've entered the 2nd hand market in droves because of the advance of HDMI and possibly because the original Xbox 360 consoles went up in smoke. The official "S-generation" component cable is not switchable and once again is ridiculously priced ($49.95).

Given the mini's ability to create scanlines, would it be an acceptable box? ...but I think I remembered some resolution limitations when generating scanlines with the current firmware.

As of 1.07a the XRGB-mini only adds scanlines up to 720p mode (IIRC). Fundamentally scanlines only seem to work well with 240p or 480p material. With 240p often darker doubled, gray, or black scanlines are added to get a 480p image. With 480p material every other line can be darkened. It wouldn't surprise me if the XRGB-mini adds 240 black lines to 480p material (i.e. every third line is black) to get scanlined 720p. Now the Xbox 360 can output 480p and some titles will actually fill the screen in tate mode but that kind of support is somewhat uneven over the entire Xbox 360 shmup library. Frankly I wish every title offered the options that "Raiden Fighters Aces" has: size, position, smoothing type, scan lines ... the works, no "magic box" necessary. See also:

futurematt5: SLG3000 Scanline Generator & Dreamcast in HD
fagin: Back to the Gaming Future - Revenge of 480p CRT
Arcade Forge: Scanline Generator SLG3000

[chronic1]

Why? Are you saying your display doesn't have another HDMI input or are you expecting to buy an NTSC-J Xbox 360 without an HDMI output?

The latter. The Xbox 360 I'm looking at doesn't have an HDMI connector.

...considering the precarious implementation of "pre-XBox 360 S" models you should endeavor to acquire at least a Jasper model which will have an HDMI port.

Based on the above quote, I suppose it is safe to assume the Xbox is pre-Jasper since there isn't a HDMI port. The link you provided seemed to indicate the Jasper model had a different gpu & more onboard memory. I'll check the J360 ownership thread, but what is concerning about owning a pre-Jasper Xbox?

Once again, thanks for all the information!

[brentsg]

Pre Jasper Xboxes are more prone to bothersome loud fans and failure.

[antron]

Pre Jasper Xboxes are more prone to bothersome loud fans and failure.

saying it is more prone to failure is putting it nicely.

[chronic1]

Antron & BrentSG,

Do you think the hiccups of the earlier models justify the increased cost of a new model? A loud fan really won't bother me too much; a failure would result in Ibara levels of rage.

[Fudoh]

totally depends on the price you would pay for this one. If you can get an old working J360 for $100, then go, get it.

I have a japanese Falcon unit, with HDMI, runs flawless since I got it. Nevertheless I will upgrade to a slim J360 sometime this year - just to feel safer for the years to come.

[brentsg]

I'd say that you should approach older Xbox 360 as if they'll eventually fail. The Jasper and newer units seem solid though.

Of course maybe you'll get lucky? I also have a working early HDMI model, but my earlier ones are long ago broken.

[antron]

With so many US and region free ports coming out, I decided to sell my launch model J360 while it was still running and get a US Slim. But then Mushi came out

Just don't pay too much, as Fudoh said, and reserve it for shmups.

[Ganelon]

The 250GB Xbox 360 S was available for a couple of months at Amazon Japan for y20000 brand new. I thought that seemed pretty reasonable for something you could buy and never worry about afterward. I'd wait for the next deal.

Jasper isn't easy to differentiate and costs nearly as much used because some folks want the external HDD.

[chronic1]

The 250GB Xbox 360 S was available for a couple of months at Amazon Japan for y20000 brand new. I thought that seemed pretty reasonable for something you could buy and never worry about afterward. I'd wait for the next deal.

Jasper isn't easy to differentiate and costs nearly as much used because some folks want the external HDD.

I was under the impression I would need a proxy buyer to get a console from amazon.co.jp (I'm in the US). I wouldn't mind having a 4GB model w/ a giant USB device attached. Some online posts praise that option; afterall, my US slim isn't even close to being out of space.

Thanks for the information. Pretty sure I'll pass on the older unit & just sit patiently for a deal on a new unit.

[HydrogLox]

Pretty sure I'll pass on the older unit & just sit patiently for a deal on a new unit.

I'd say a wise choice. As for any more deals coming up - well don't count on it. In August 2011 the Xbox 360 was pulled from Japanese brick-and-mortar retailers (Joystiq: Report: Japanese retailers backing away from Xbox 360). So I'm a bit surprised to hear that the amazon sale was as recently as "a couple" of months ago - I would have guessed it was the end of 2011. Unlike in other regions the NTSC-J Xbox 360 console is a niche product. So by now sales of NTSC-J Xbox 360 consoles may be as likely as sales of XRGB-minis. I hope I'm wrong. I got the 250GB version in 2011 from play-asia Xbox 360 Arcade Slim Console (4GB) (I seem to remember that the Asian version tends to be cheaper but ships with a 220V PSU). Shipping added about another $120.

I wouldn't mind having a 4GB model w/ a giant USB device attached.

As far as I know you can use Xbox 360 hard drives from any region in the NTSC-J console. The USB device storage limit was only increased from 16GB to 32GB in the November 2012 dashboard update (Joystiq: Xbox 360 USB data storage limit doubled to 32GB) - 32GB isn't exactly "giant" when compared to the 250GB or larger internal drive. You'll have to see how you get along because you'll want to install the games to "storage" to limit the wear on the DVD-ROM drive. Luckily shmups tend to be only 200-600 MB each but some can be surprisingly large.

Already planned out and prioritized your title purchases? Of the platform exclusives that I own Ketsui turned out to be my favorite - not that I'm any good at it.

Futurematt5: XBOX SHOOTING EMPORIUM with faginrs500

I have a japanese Falcon unit, with HDMI, runs flawless since I got it. Nevertheless I will upgrade to a slim J360 sometime this year - just to feel safer for the years to come.

Another good plan. I delayed picking up a domestic console until the Falcon chip shipped and snagged a Falcon Elite in December 2007. I always took good care of it and it was always well ventilated. It saw minimal use as it was only used for platform exclusives (I used the PS3 for multi-platform releases). In April 2011 it RRoDed regardless, four months after the RRoD and extended warranty expired. The 2005 Xenon Design (Zephyr added the HDMI) just generated too much waste heat (i.e. consumed to much power) in a consumer electronics package, so it was just a matter of time until one or more solder connections gave out to RRoD the unit. The 2007 Falcon/Opus design cut the power consumption (and therefore waste heat) somewhat but apparently not enough; it just seems to give you a little more time before the inevitable happens. In 2008 the Jasper/Kronos design finally cut the power consumption sufficiently to give unit a fighting chance in the original case (i.e. it can still happen - it is just less likely). We'll just have to see how the 2010 Trinity(Valhalla) and 2011 Corona designs fare in the long term.

IVC wiki: Xbox 360 Revisions