Raiden III - PS2 version

[Ord]

Shipping from Yes-Asia took 5 days! Free! Excellent in my books.

[Bingo]

Yeah, you're in Scotland though. YesAsia have a large basecamp in the UK and reship from there. Shipments to other parts of Europe have a far spottier track record. I've had several packages nicked outright, others took a month, a few were shipped back to YesAsia after a month and came routed via the UK to me after 6 weeks. Started being like that for me about 18 months ago, used to use 'em all the time before that. At least 2 friends share similar experiences.

They're really good, just depends on where you're located. UK is pretty much bulletproof.

[raiden]

interesting game. They tried to update the old formula with a few minor tweaks like smaller hitzone, more pattern-based attacks, less weapon power levels, changed the score "system"´s bias and the weapon balance. Even apart from the graphics, this is clearly a much more modern game than the old Raiden parts, although influences - ranging from Cave to Psikyo - come through only in minimal doses.
There are quite a few things I´m not happy with, especially the slow ship speed, the music and the draw priority (transparency effects overlay bullet visibility frequently). But the game has a clear-cut gameplay profile justifying its existence, and the level design is much better than pretty much anything which came out in recent years (yes, clearly better than that of Mushihime Sama). No uninspired repetional attack waves, very little generic symmetry, and almost nothing in common with previous Raiden games, so you have to start all over learning things. Bosses can be point-blanked beautifully, but don´t have cheap safe spots like in the first Raiden.
Port quality is excellent, no doubt about that, in some ways even better than what Arika did with the Cave games. Boss Rush and Score Attack mode offer great ways to learn the game. However, if anyone doesn´t own the Raiden collection and/or Raiden DX for PS1, those are still the better games overall.

Raiden 3 will be the first polygonal shmup I´m going to play with any degree of seriousness.

[SAM]

I have been making some progress (Stage 4) until I notice that "Normal" is not matching the difficulty of the acrade. (it should be a rank harder: "Acrade"). I am now back to Stage 3 now...

Only one complains on this port, no progressive scan support. The bullets of this game are so fast that it leaves tails on the screen. Mind you I am connecting the game to a New Astro City Monitor (29"CRT 15kHz RGB) in Tate.

I don't notice any tails in the Acrade center when I play the game there, Blast City (29" CRT 31kHz RGB, or should it called VGA?). Taito did make PS2 Sns2 (Japanese version) support progresssive scan, but I don't see why it doesn't make Raiden III support progressive scan also?

[Ghegs]

It was getting just a wee-bit off-topic there, so I split the discussion about resolution to its own topic.

And now back to your regulary scheduled Raiden III.

[Randorama]

It was getting just a wee-bit off-topic there, so I split the discussion about resolution to its own topic.

And now back to your regulary scheduled Raiden III.

Thanks \;_;/

[MadSteelDarkness]

It was getting just a wee-bit off-topic there, so I split the discussion about resolution to its own topic.

And now back to your regulary scheduled Raiden III.

Cheers, Ghegs.

I've been playing nothing but Raiden III since Thursday, and doubt I'll be going back to anything else any time soon. I'm afraid I can't contribute anything more in the wake of raiden's excellent summary, so I'll just say: This game frikkin rocks. Buy it now and thank me later.

[Rob]

Got it, disappointing. It's exactly how I imagined, a pretty bland update with nothing really new. The scoring system is basically a dumbed down version of what was in DX, not inspired in the least. Ship is still slow, graphics and soundtrack both suck. Level designs are not exciting, same types of enemies and shots from past Raidens. So why don't I just play Raiden DX then. OK, I might. I'm really not this desperate for a new shooter.

[cigsthecat]

I still think it's worth playing. True, the depth just isn't there. I won't be returning after the clear to point blank every little thing. But it's fun.

Were you really expecting a DX killer? I don't think anyone will argue III is the better game.

[Dylan1CC]

This one improves the more you play it

Is it just me, or is there some ranking? L3 boss destroyed me with a really fast megaspread, after I died it fired the same thing - much more slowly.

This is the perfect antidote to the overdose of Cave style games of late - first time I was killed by a sniper tank almost caused tears of joy - "it .. it aimed at me! ". Music is even growing on me too.

Between the ever more positive impressions of the game sticking to its unforgiving roots and having a blast with a Raiden cab with my bro and friends this weekend, I am definitely gonna have to pick this one up now. I don't care what anyone says, as long as it feels like an old Raiden game I will be happy.

And because of that I popped the Raiden Project in this morning and forgot that unlike the cab, it reloads at a mid point before you die which kinda makes me feel....

[Rob]

Were you really expecting a DX killer? I don't think anyone will argue III is the better game.

No, but maybe a Raiden 1 killer, which... I would rather play Raiden 1. Positive: I really like the slight changes to the power-up system and no checkpoints. Those are good things.

[professor ganson]

They tried to update the old formula with a few minor tweaks like
[1]smaller hitzone,
[2]more pattern-based attacks,
[3]less weapon power levels,
[4]changed the score "system"´s bias and
[5]the weapon balance.

1 and 2 are clear to me, but I have questions about 3-5.

Concerning 5: Is this to say that the toothpaste shot is not as useless in III? I find myself sticking to spread for the most part, switching to the blue attack for bosses. That is, I haven't noticed a difference here yet.

Concerning 4: I'd be interested to hear this point developed. I'm still getting familiar with the score systems of DX and III, so I don't quite get the point here.

Concerning 3: Is there much of a difference here? And how is having fewer power-up levels an improvement? (I'm not disagreeing, just wondering. )

[BulletMagnet]

And how is having fewer power-up levels an improvement? (I'm not disagreeing, just wondering. )

I haven't played Raiden III yet, but I'd figure that fewer power levels would make it easier/faster to reach full power, and thus also easier to recover after dying and powering down.

[Icarus]

[4]changed the score "system"´s bias

Concerning 4: I'd be interested to hear this point developed. I'm still getting familiar with the score systems of DX and III, so I don't quite get the point here.

The score system in DX is based on a lot of little things that make up a vast and very deep system.

• Collecting fluctuating Medals at MAX value (which triggers 10,000pt Medals and Micluses)
• Weapon and bomb surplus bonus points (maximum is 50,000pts per bomb if you collect all of the same type, or 5,000pts per surplus weapon and random surplus bomb pickups)
• Secrets (stuff like the car and the various silos and pyramids)
• Scratching bonuses (some patterns give you 5,000pts for close calls)
• Boss Speedkill Bonus (you're rated by how fast you take down a boss)
• End of Stage Bonuses (small Medals, 10,000pt Medals and bomb stock influences the bonus tally)
• Tickle Points (you get points for hitting stuff with your attacks, which favours Mushi-like Vulcan abuse)
• Mission Looping (you can loop from Training to Novice to Expert if you meet requirements)

The depth in DX is based on what you go for. You can choose to go for everything above (making the game incredibly hard) or you can choose to go for none. That's the beauty of DX's system.

Raiden 3 however has a more simplified system based on speedkills, and the end of stage bonus. Since you do not get fluctuating Medals (all fixed at 500pts I think) the emphasis is now on taking down everything at speed, and achieving the 1LC (for the end of stage bonuses).

While R3's system is a little easier to handle, and it levels the playing field somewhat, it's not as deep or as rewarding as DX. With DX, the more proficient you become at it, the more you can choose to take on with regards to the scoring system.

Concerning 5: Is this to say that the toothpaste shot is not as useless in III? I find myself sticking to spread for the most part, switching to the blue attack for bosses. That is, I haven't noticed a difference here yet.

Raiden 3's Whip Laser is nowhere near as useless as the Toothpaste of older games. With the Whip you can quickly move it from side to side, taking out waves of small drones coming from both sides. The only problem being that you have to keep "flicking" the Whip to keep it trained on larger enemies.

[professor ganson]

And how is having fewer power-up levels an improvement? (I'm not disagreeing, just wondering. )

I haven't played Raiden III yet, but I'd figure that fewer power levels would make it easier/faster to reach full power, and thus also easier to recover after dying and powering down.

OK, that's an obvious advantage, and it does seem less of a struggle to recover from deaths in III.
I think my head cold has gone to my head, so I apologize if I'm a bit slow tonight.

[Recap]

Got it, disappointing. It's exactly how I imagined, a pretty bland update with nothing really new.

It's exactly as it looked on screenshots and videos and as most people who played the coin-op said, then. Your imagination doesn't have much to do here.

[Rob]

There's sometimes a difference between screenshots and playing.

[professor ganson]

While R3's system is a little easier to handle, and it levels the playing field somewhat, it's not as deep or as rewarding as DX. With DX, the more proficient you become at it, the more you can choose to take on with regards to the scoring system.

Whip Laser is nowhere near as useless as the Toothpaste of older games. With the Whip you can quickly move it from side to side, taking out waves of small drones coming from both sides. The only problem being that you have to keep "flicking" the Whip to keep it trained on larger enemies.

Thanks, Icarus. This is extremely helpful, as was your response to my question about scoring in R3 in the strategy forum. (I thought that the multiplier had to do with speed, but the larger enemies are on a different clock, so to speak, and that was puzzling me. You cleared things up right away.)

I was thinking that the scoring system in DX seemed deeper, but I wasn't sure that I was fully appreciating III's scoring system. Now this all makes sense, though I'm still a bit puzzled why Raiden is thinking that there is an improvement here.

Yeah, so far the whip weapon doesn't feel right for boss battles because so many of my attempts to tap dodge an attack send the whip off target. But even so, I suppose that the attack is sufficiently strong to make it better than spread shot for bosses. And in that case the toothpaste weapon has the strengths of both of the other weapons (range and power), though to a lesser extent (less range than spread, less power than the blue weapon). So there is a kind of balance here.

[BulletMagnet]

I think my head cold has gone to my head...

Well, considering that is IS a head cold, I can't say I'm particularly surprised.

[Rob]

I was thinking that the scoring system in DX seemed deeper, but I wasn't sure that I was fully appreciating III's scoring system. Now this all makes sense, though I'm still a bit puzzled why Raiden is thinking that there is an improvement here.

He's expressed in the past that he doesn't like the end of game bonuses in DX. I think that's it.

[Guardians Knight]

woohoo, came this morning, wow what a great game!!

[ckm]

WHY is the ship so f-ing slow?!

that dual-mode saves it.

can't really complain about the awful graphics, etc, cause I knew it was like that before I ordered it -

still don't understand what the problem is tho' with not being able to have ports with the Raiden Fighters series style of graphics, and other sprite styles.

does no-one know how to do those kinds of graphics anymore? outside of Cave I mean.

but I can and will complain about yet another blue disk / CD game being sold at full price.

[Guardians Knight]

so slow? have you played the first 2 Raidens? Graphics are fine, altho admittedly it would have been cool if it was 2d hand drawn sprites like all the other Raidens, it made me feel like i was playing a Neomi game

[system11]

Wrong on so many levels.

WHY is the ship so f-ing slow?!

Have you played the other Raiden games? That's how it is.

can't really complain about the awful graphics, etc, cause I knew it was like that before I ordered it -

still don't understand what the problem is tho' with not being able to have ports with the Raiden Fighters series style of graphics, and other sprite styles.

They're like that because the arcade game was. Actually these ones are quite nicely done, clean for once. If they switched to sprites it wouldn't be a port anymore.

but I can and will complain about yet another blue disk / CD game being sold at full price.

What - you think a CD is worth less to the point where the overall price can be lowered? In media terms actually no. Given that it fits nicely on a CD why in the world would you ever want it on the far more fragile DVD format?

Crazy talk. Enjoy the damn game, we're lucky to be able to.

[professor ganson]

Enjoy the damn game, we're lucky to be able to.

I suppose I agree. The music and graphics do not draw me in, but neither are they a distraction. And the level of challenge is just right for me, at least on Normal mode. The ship speed can be frustrating at times, and I'm not improving as quickly as I'd like. But I see these as mostly problems with me, and not so much with the game. Maybe I'll start playing better when I get rid of this damn cold.

The only complaint that really moves me is that the scoring system is less deep than in DX. Oh well.

[Guardians Knight]

everyone moaning about the ship speed should count themselves lucky, as i have noticed the hit box is much smaller than the other Raidens whose hit box was the entire ship sprite, but now it seems to only be the middle section and not the wings aswell

[system11]

The music and graphics do not draw me in, but neither are they a distraction.

This one keeps surprising me - I thought the music was very good, quite catchy in fact. Not quite as good as Viper Phase One of course, but few tunes are.

[Guardians Knight]

can somebody tell me how to get boss rush on? im guessing you must complete the game yes?

[sffan]

If the ship was faster it would throw off the balance of the game by making it too easy. Same if the weapons were more powerful.

The game is given with these built-in ground rules and we should accept the challenge rather than criticise the game for stuff like this.

[professor ganson]

The music and graphics do not draw me in, but neither are they a distraction.

This one keeps surprising me - I thought the music was very good, quite catchy in fact. Not quite as good as Viper Phase One of course, but few tunes are.

I'll give the music more time. Most of the time I need to have the volume off when I'm playing shmups to avoid annoying others. So the quality of the music is never a big issue for me.