OUYA - $99 USD Game Console

[trap15]

Input lag is an Android problem. Expect at least 2 frames on Ouya, probably more.

[DJ Incompetent]

I haven't really followed the project, but is there anything about the hardware that makes it fundamentally different from a more-or-less standard Android device that happens to have Tegra 3 and costs $100? I would think any major name developer support as just making whatever they have already been doing for Google Play.

I guess the major selling point is just game distribution then?
.

Form. Which means the expectations that physical buttons will be used instead of touch where possible. Real-people controls could be the difference in some of the non-pay-to-win Google Play stuff or new stuff actually becoming good.

With current Android, it's a toss up of if your bluetooth controller can be keymapped to a particular game. Ouya will solve that bullshit to a console standard.

So yes, it's about game distribution. If you have no faith, HDMI-up your phone/tablet with emulators. If you want to see what indie teams can do with physical controller games and Gamecube-esq hardware specs, do the Ouya thing and just go emulator/media streamer box if the scene goes all XBLIG.

The top 25 STGs list don't seem to require specs higher than a Gamecube. So what's here is everything people would need to make something good. It's just are devs going to care enough to try. Then there's the wait 'n see on the input lag. I thought I read somewhere Ouya would be tweaked to not have this issue, but they also distorted the free-to-play and open hardware definitions to sell somethin'. I'm just looking forward to android games with forced controller and without shuttering. Cave games run fine on Android in its unclean state, so I see this new hardware ending well.

[ShmupSamurai]

I've had a pretty big interest in the OUYA my self ever since an article popped up in a magazine about two months ago...

Can it do Java apps? TGF2 has an "Export as Java app" feature.....If it can, then I'm golden!

[Ex-Cyber]

Can it do Java apps?

As with so many things involving the much-conflated marketing trademark "Java", the answer is that it depends on exactly what you mean by "Java". Android does use the Java programming language, but does not actually provide a Java Runtime Environment.

[null1024]

Can it do Java apps?

As with so many things involving the much-conflated marketing trademark "Java", the answer is that it depends on exactly what you mean by "Java". Android does use the Java programming language, but does not actually provide a Java Runtime Environment.

Thus, the real question is thus: is there a JRE that runs on Android?

[ZellSF]

Input lag is an Android problem. Expect at least 2 frames on Ouya, probably more.

Do you know why?

I know emulators on Xperia Play phones are pretty bad when it comes to input lag, but I've found no explanation why.

[gct]

I'm no kernel hacker but I would guess it's somewhere in the way Android's hardware keyboard (or possibly all) input protocols are implemented. From my personal experience it's unplayably bad in my Xperia Play's own keyboard, and just as bad using a Wii Remote/Sixaxis emulating a QWERTY keyboard. As far as I can tell, the Xperia Play's hardware keys are a small subset of QWERTY anyway, so I assume similar input lag exists on other Android handsets.

In the case of emulation, it's particularly frustrating because you have one tiny population of people who are adamant the input lag exists and is especially debilitating, and a much larger population of people who claim there is zero input lag while playing [insert big-name JRPG].

Anyway, I'm going way off-topic. I will be pleased if Ouya is successful, but I won't be buying one myself. As DJ Incompetent has said, "wait and see". You guys tell me how it is when you get yours, because on the topic of input lag, I trust you bunch here much more to be able to notice it - furthermore many of you have actual hardware for direct comparison. If it exists in Ouya then hopefully some noise can be made and the Ouya team can get a hacker on board to take care of it.

[Ex-Cyber]

Input lag is an Android problem. Expect at least 2 frames on Ouya, probably more.

Do you know why?

I know emulators on Xperia Play phones are pretty bad when it comes to input lag, but I've found no explanation why.

Without even knowing much about Android guts specifically, I'd speculate that there's a one-frame delay to pass a buffer from an app to the OS and then another one-frame delay to pass from the OS (which I'm hand-wavingly conceiving as some conjunction of the Android class libraries and kernel here) to the hardware framebuffer. Then perhaps an additional 0.5-1 frames of delay for each of those components that double-buffers internally. Worst-case input lag might also be a function of the garbage collector, as is notably the case in Flash games.

Looking at it from a higher level, the thing about the platform in general is that you have to filter the crap out of touchscreen input to get anything reliable, so most developers don't have an expectation of minimal input lag anyway.

[Friendly]

Well, supposedly Android games will run fine, and they heard the complaints regarding the d-pad and are redesigning it.
As long as it gets XBMC as promised, I'll be more than happy with Ouya. An HD media player with very low power consumption that can play any current audio/video format alone justifies the price of admission, in my opinion. Anything else (eg. emulators) constitutes added bonus.

[Friendly]

LET’S TALK HARDWARE:

We’re still going full-steam ahead. We’ve been refining OUYA’s hardware design (cosmetics, mechanicals, electricals, thermals etc.). We’ve spent most of this time in the design phase, as getting it right up front saves us a lot of redesign and iteration later. We’ve had some of the best engineers and designers take a look at every design element and fine tune it. Our CAD models and SLAs (plastic prototypes that provide us with a physical look and feel of the product) are finished, and we moved out of the design phase and into development a couple of weeks ago.

Last week was a huge milestone for us -- we received our first development run of PCBs (Printed Circuit Boards) for the console. This is the heart (and we believe the soul) of the OUYA experience. It’s pretty amazing how our engineers have packed in Quad-Core awesomeness into such an unbelievably small package (any guesses on how small the PCB actually is?). All the hard work in refining the design has paid off in spades -- the first boards came to life without any hitches, and we’re now fine tuning software and hardware performance for graphics, wireless, and user experience! W00t.

We are now in what’s referred to in the industry as the EVT (Engineering Verification Testing) phase.

Have a look at our PCB:



During the EVT phase, we’ll be testing both the console and the controller with our OUYA software. We'll continue to verify our design and push the performance limits of our software. We’ll go through a couple more EVT build phases, as we weed out issues and refine the design for optimal performance and large-scale manufacturing, before we start cranking out OUYAs.

So, awesome news: we’re set to complete this EVT phase on time, and we’re in sync with our December target for developer kits. Since these dev kits are still in pre-production phase, we’ll build a limited quantity. Each one will be a collector’s item -- unique in design, build and appearance. (So, they’ll look different from the consumer-ready units.)

SO LONG, ICE CREAM SANDWICH:

I’m happy to announce OUYA will run on Android Jelly Bean, the newest version of the Android operating system. We’re making the jump from the old version, Ice Cream Sandwich, to ensure that we’re running on the most up-to-date software available. You asked if it could be done, we looked into it, and we made it happen.

[Friendly]

Ouya is nearing completion. Unboxing of a dev unit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psCoR4zmIpE

All 1,200 developer units have shipped.

Anyone want to develop an Ouya game? Here you go (free SDK):
https://devs.ouya.tv/developers/odk
https://devs.ouya.tv/developers/docs

[Super Laydock]

glad to hear they're working on that d-pad issue.

In any case, I am really looking forward to receiving mine in a few months.
I invested in some games already and can't wait to play them and see this becoming the success it deserves to be.

[BryanM]

This is so indulgent, even moreso than the Neo Geo X. I assume the company backing it has a series of epic console-locked games, like that Neo Geoish arcade style jRPG I've always wanted, crazy retro Battle Kid style retro platformer, and such?

Otherwise we're embracing a bit of exploitive nerd cruft.

All the scenarios; it's competing with a magic box with 30+ years of content, millions of controllers available, allows you to develop in any damn language you want, and is so prevalent you can pick one up for a jig and a song at a pawn shop.

64,000 sales? Holy shit, Slashdot is a great publicist. I read their sales pitch and naturally assume its conclusion is this or this.

[Friendly]

I invested in some games already

Do you mean by backing other kickstarters?

[shmuppyLove]

I invested in some games already

Do you mean by backing other kickstarters?

I think he means by buying some games on Google Play

it's competing with a magic box with 30+ years of content, millions of controllers available, allows you to develop in any damn language you want, and is so prevalent you can pick one up for a jig and a song at a pawn shop.

64,000 sales? Holy shit, Slashdot is a great publicist. I read their sales pitch and naturally assume its conclusion is this or this.

You're sort of mostly not completely wrong.

The point is to combine all the drawbacks of consoles and PCs with none of the benefits.

No wait ...

[Super Laydock]

I invested in some games already

Do you mean by backing other kickstarters?

yup.
Pier Solar & Ancient Axes: HoP (gauntlet-like).
Not much but they're both funded and paid for.

Some pretty cool indie stuff coming to as of the dev-console-give away-contest.
as seen here. Including a shmup..

[Bee Cool]

So this is using the tegra3, but the tegra4 will most likely be released quite a bit before the Ouya even ships. The tegra4 will be roughly six times faster than the tegra3 and this also means that the games designed for the tegra4 will not work with the Ouya.

The Ouya will be pretty outdated even by tablet standards when it is released.

[BryanM]

I assumed that was one of the "drawbacks of consoles".. It's impressive you can get a low-end Pentium 4 on a tiny chip now, though.

The hardware is the least important aspect of it though. Everyone's first reaction is the most important question: what are the exclusive games?

Christ guys, Canabalt is being advertised as a marquee game. You want Canabalt? You can't get ye Canabalt. You already have Canabalt.

[Udderdude]

Everyone's first reaction is the most important question: what are the exclusive games?

I believe earlier in the thread, the answer was "Not much". Still seems that way.

It makes absolutely no sense for indie developers to put all their eggs in one basket and have an Ouya exclusive game.

Not sure it makes much sense for big name developers either, unless they're willing to make a big risk that indie devs just can't afford to take.

[BryanM]

It makes sense if you're the company selling the hardware or that company drives a great big truck full of money up to your house. Like say the DQ10 wii acquisition thing.

Are there any 1st party titles at all? That's what tilts it toward "scam" territory for me; that it's made to exploit the kind of person who thinks there's some invisible hand holding them back from developing something.

Could you imagine making your own console to stick it to the man, and not make your own Super Mario multi-pack, pack-in bundle? Could you, an alleged lover of games, ever think about saying this:

"We may even consider some "first party" development where we help fund game creation."

I'd have more faith in a $50 console that could do zero 3d, if its library had the backing of its creator.

my 132mhz 486 came pretty close to decent performance in Genecyst

I liked how the quality was so low on their emulators. Cyst was all like "hurm. These are some sounds that kind of sound like what the game might have sounded like. Yeah, that's good." It was such a ghetto fabulous age we lived in.

The overhead needed for accuracy-leaning emulators is incredible. Nestopia is kind of absurd when you think about it, and BSNES just strangles just about any machine you put under it.

[null1024]

It makes sense if you're the company selling the hardware or that company drives a great big truck full of money up to your house. Like say the DQ10 wii acquisition thing.

Are there any 1st party titles at all? That's what tilts it toward "scam" territory for me; that it's made to exploit the kind of person who thinks there's some invisible hand holding them back from developing something.

Could you imagine making your own console to stick it to the man, and not make your own Super Mario multi-pack, pack-in bundle? Could you, an alleged lover of games, ever think about saying this:

"We may even consider some "first party" development where we help fund game creation."

I'd have more faith in a $50 console that could do zero 3d, if its library had the backing of its creator.

my 132mhz 486 came pretty close to decent performance in Genecyst

I liked how the quality was so low on their emulators. Cyst was all like "hurm. These are some sounds that kind of sound like what the game might have sounded like. Yeah, that's good." It was such a ghetto fabulous age we lived in.

The overhead needed for accuracy-leaning emulators is incredible. Nestopia is kind of absurd when you think about it, and BSNES just strangles just about any machine you put under it.

Didn't Genecyst just try to feed whatever FM registers were set to your soundcard's FM chip and hope it worked out?

Also, now that you mention it, a console without some first-party efforts does seem a bit off. Seriously.

[Friendly]

I really don't get all the whining. We are talking about a $99 USD system here. That's the price of two controllers for PS360. The price of one dinner for two in a medium class restaurant.
For $99 USD you get a Rubik's Cube sized system with low energy consumption and a controller with touchpad that will allow you to play android games on a TV screen. And you get XBMC, which will make this a great media player. Its software development kit is FREE, which means anyone can create games for it.

So they don't have the financial power of the corporate overlords to produce games of their own or bribe publishers for exclusivity? I pray to thee, holy Nintendo, save us from this region-free monstrosity! Please Microsoft, take our money to let us play online and sell us proprietary HDDs. Please Sony, deliver us from Linux. For your locked down systems and exclusive licensing and distribution models are the power and the glory!

The naysayers are really grasping at straws here. After your prediction that this would never even get made has obviously turned out to be false, you are now complaining that this won't come with a CPU that doesn't even exist at this point? Really? According to this logic you can NEVER release a new system, because it is immediately outdated. It's called progress. After Tegra 4 there will be Tegra 5, and so on.
And remember how Nintendo released a system with roughly the power of 6-year old hardware just the other day? Oh no, it's outdated.

[Bee Cool]

The naysayers are really grasping at straws here. After your prediction that this would never even get made has obviously turned out to be false, you are now complaining that this won't come with a CPU that doesn't even exist at this point? Really? According to this logic you can NEVER release a new system, because it is immediately outdated. It's called progress. After Tegra 4 there will be Tegra 5, and so on.
And remember how Nintendo released a system with roughly the power of 6-year old hardware just the other day? Oh no, it's outdated.

I never said the Ouya wasn't going to be made, so fuck off with your bullshit.

The point is that tablets from early 2013 and on are going to be six times faster than the Ouya. The Tegra4 is a huge upgrade, and following updates to it will not create nearly as big of a performance gap for a long while.

They are releasing the Ouya at the worst possible time, because all new games made for the Tegra 4 phones and tablets in 2013 and on will not be available on the Ouya. If anything they should delay the release and put in a Tegra4 (which will only cost between 17-22 dollars) so they won't be completely left behind.

Do you understand the difference between being outdated by PC standards and being outdated by smartphone standards? There is a big difference, and I'm afraid that it will show.

[Friendly]

I never said the Ouya wasn't going to be made, so fuck off with your bullshit.

I never said you were the one who said this.
Also, manners?

[Bee Cool]

After your prediction that this would never even get made has obviously turned out to be false, you are now complaining that this won't come with a CPU that doesn't even exist at this point?

Yes you did, it was obviously implied as I'm the one who wrote the comment about the processor. I don't appreciate you lying about what I said to try and discredit my comment.

[Friendly]

After your prediction that this would never even get made has obviously turned out to be false, you are now complaining that this won't come with a CPU that doesn't even exist at this point?

Yes you did, it was obviously implied as I'm the one who wrote the comment about the processor. I don't appreciate you lying about what I said to try and discredit my comment.

That was "you" plural, not singular. I clearly wrote "the naysayers".

Take a chill pill.

[Super Laydock]

I really don't get all the whining. We are talking about a $99 USD system here. That's the price of two controllers for PS360. The price of one dinner for two in a medium class restaurant.
For $99 USD you get a Rubik's Cube sized system with low energy consumption and a controller with touchpad that will allow you to play android games on a TV screen. And you get XBMC, which will make this a great media player. Its software development kit is FREE, which means anyone can create games for it.

So they don't have the financial power of the corporate overlords to produce games of their own or bribe publishers for exclusivity? I pray to thee, holy Nintendo, save us from this region-free monstrosity! Please Microsoft, take our money to let us play online and sell us proprietary HDDs. Please Sony, deliver us from Linux. For your locked down systems and exclusive licensing and distribution models are the power and the glory!

The naysayers are really grasping at straws here. After your prediction that this would never even get made has obviously turned out to be false, you are now complaining that this won't come with a CPU that doesn't even exist at this point? Really? According to this logic you can NEVER release a new system, because it is immediately outdated. It's called progress. After Tegra 4 there will be Tegra 5, and so on.
And remember how Nintendo released a system with roughly the power of 6-year old hardware just the other day? Oh no, it's outdated.

you stole the words right out of my mouth here.

That said, you were implying Bee Cool to be a naysayer. Whether he is, I'll leave that up to himself to judge.

[Super Laydock]

After your prediction that this would never even get made has obviously turned out to be false, you are now complaining that this won't come with a CPU that doesn't even exist at this point?

Yes you did, it was obviously implied as I'm the one who wrote the comment about the processor. I don't appreciate you lying about what I said to try and discredit my comment.

That was "you" plural, not singular. I clearly wrote "the naysayers".

Take a chill pill.

notice how you specify the naysayers by reffering to a comment Bee Cool made...
but I agree we should all just "be cool and chill'.

[BryanM]

DS and Flash games from six years ago. The SA article about its library is hardly off the mark.

The price of one dinner for two in a medium class restaurant.

You poor British bastard. It's 5 people here in the states.

..Grasping at straws?

"What games will it have that I can't already get."
"GAMING SUCKS NOWADAYS."
"....What."

[Friendly]

That SA article made me laugh. I do have humor.

BTW, I actually wouldn't mind playing some of the old Lucasfilm games again (on a TV); it's been a while. Seems quite likely that Ouya will get a port of ScummVM.