STGs in arcades - No place for them anymore?

[shmuppyLove]

Most of the time around here it's just one of the Aero Fighters games in a neglected Neo Geo.

I would love that cab like the child I never had.

[Tyjet]

Here in AZ the only shmup we have is Raiden IV at gameworks. There used to be a Senko No Ronde, but that was removed since nobody was playing it. From what I see when I walk into my local arcades, people seem more drawn by flashy ticket/prize games rather than the arcade ones. I guess it's the "gambling" factor that makes people go to them.

[Ed Oscuro]

Our local arcade (Casino Leisure in central London) just got tonnes of cabs taken out to be replaced by pool tables. Almost the only regulars at the arcade are the London Shmups Forum lot (big up Team Casino!), and yet still the owners removed almost all the shmups. I guess passing traffic visitors still prefer fighters.

What is the ratio of STG cabs surviving there, then and now?

Hope ye olde Truxton prototype board doesn't get chucked out...are they warehousing old cabs or selling them, or..?

[gs68]

Don't get me wrong, I love seeing shmup cabs, if only as an opportunity to demonstrate my abilities. But then I get sad notcing that it gets so few plays compared to Super Blaze Gear of Fighers 4 Arena Ultra Mega Black Label Turbo Arcade Edition.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Even the last time I saw an arcade in the UK, which was about 5 years ago at a seaside pier, it was full of fruit machines and toy machines. Where at one point in the mid-90s it was 75% video games (I played Air Buster there as a kid), it then had a couple of driving games and light gun shooters. At the resort itself, which previously had 6 or so arcades, only the pier was still going compared to when we frequently had family days out there and I threw 10p coins into Flying Shark, Twin Cobra, Star Force, Raiden, Darius 2 like it was going out of fashion. Turns out it was. I don't think I've seen a shmup in an arcade since about '98 and that was a solitary Raiden II machine. Even through the 90s it was mostly driving, light gun and beat 'em ups.

[Kollision]

I have never seen an arcade shmup as an adult in the place where I live.
Granted, I haven't been to the more obscure neighborhoods once i got into college (where some obscure stuff might have been found).

Arcade stuff can only be found at shopping malls these days.
And they're just like that, rhythm games, light gun machines, racers, stupid punching things, etc. I use to enter these places from time to time *in the hopes* I will find at least a Sonic Wings cab, which used to be the most popular shmup back in the 90's here.
I'm sure a few can still be found hidden in São Paulo and Rio, but that's too far from my neck of the woods.

Want to know where I've glanced arcade shumps in the last couple of years?
A Raiden 2 in London, in a joint close to Piccadilly Circus IIRC, a Sonic WIngs 2 in Montevideo, which might have been just a multi-cart NG, and Strikers 1945 in the countryside of São Paulo state, just another NG in a cab ....and After Burner Climax in Dubai and Rio, but that doesn't count for these forums anyway.

[MintyTheCat]

I think that the Message here for me is that Shmup-Arcades are going to have to be run by Shmuppers

My Question though is: Where?

I've lived in the UK and Germany and can only really justify having one in a City like London, Hamburg or Berlin due to the Numbers of Shmuppers living there. It is sad but gone are the Days where an Arcade has much, much more than I have in my own Home. I will never forget those Days in the late 1980s to early 1990s of walking into an Arcade.... Magical

I know that there are Shmup-Meets in and around Europe - they appear to be in and around Germany and France - I have never been to any as yet.

I do know that a few Enthusiasts in the UK club together and rent Space to house their Cabinets and then open up the 'Arcade' as a sort of 'Exclusive Members Club' - which makes good sense as every one can realise a common Dream this Way within normal Budgets.

I don't know about the rest of you but Cabinets have always put me off due to the potential of having to deal with the CRTs and their high Currents.... My other Concern is wether or not there will be anyone around over the next couple of Decades who will be skilled in servicing these CRTs. Another Idea I had was to develop the Ideas for a Company who designed very good quality CRTs for Arcade and legacy System use.

It would be really cool to try something like this over in Germany.

What I do whenever I see a Shmup in an Arcade that is half decent (I cannot stand all this Loli-Bullshit....) is to play the Hell out of it in the hope that someone works out that some of us still love Shmups and we don't mind spending Money on playing them in Arcades.

I am quite disappointed that Casino-Arcade has chosen to rid itself of its Shmups as Casion-Arcade for several Years was my 'Local Arcade'... I would make a Point of hanging out there whenever I had Time - oh well, the grinding Wheels of Capitalism must roll on

[spadgy]

Our local arcade (Casino Leisure in central London) just got tonnes of cabs taken out to be replaced by pool tables. Almost the only regulars at the arcade are the London Shmups Forum lot (big up Team Casino!), and yet still the owners removed almost all the shmups. I guess passing traffic visitors still prefer fighters.

yes, that irritated me too... I was back in the UK around Halloween and went to Casino-Arcade especially - they had Progear-arashi and that was about all.... For God's Sake, you cannot do this as the Shmuppers are important Arcaders! I was mighty pissed when they took tatsujin-ou out and dogyuun. Then they take out the dodonpachi Shmups. I check each Time I am around but I won't think 'ah, fuck it I'll just be happy to play King of Fighters...' - we want Shmups if you are reading this, Casino-Arcade...

Some of those games going was just us regulars cycling the games. We often loan our personal PCBs to the arcade, and then take them out to put something else in. Discussion about what goes and stay takes place in the Casino Arcade thread, if you ever want to add input!

EDIT: Re Minty's new post, I'd love to be involved in a project like that. It's the first thing I'd set up if I won a big lump of cash!

[MintyTheCat]

Our local arcade (Casino Leisure in central London) just got tonnes of cabs taken out to be replaced by pool tables. Almost the only regulars at the arcade are the London Shmups Forum lot (big up Team Casino!), and yet still the owners removed almost all the shmups. I guess passing traffic visitors still prefer fighters.

yes, that irritated me too... I was back in the UK around Halloween and went to Casino-Arcade especially - they had Progear-arashi and that was about all.... For God's Sake, you cannot do this as the Shmuppers are important Arcaders! I was mighty pissed when they took tatsujin-ou out and dogyuun. Then they take out the dodonpachi Shmups. I check each Time I am around but I won't think 'ah, fuck it I'll just be happy to play King of Fighters...' - we want Shmups if you are reading this, Casino-Arcade...

Some of those games going was just us regulars cycling the games. We often loan our personal PCBs to the arcade, and then take them out to put something else in. Discussion about what goes and stay takes place in the Casino Arcade thread, if you ever want to add input!

EDIT: Re Minty's new post, I'd love to be involved in a project like that. It's the first thing I'd set up if I won a big lump of cash!

Cool - I didn't realise that there was a dedicated Thread for Casino-Arcade.

As I recall there was also R-Type Leo up and running - I rarely see this PCB in the Flesh and I didn't play it as I had completed it a couple of Weeks before, but I would have dropped some Cash had I not have

I shall try to meet up with a few Folks next Time I am in London

The first Time I saw tatsujin-ou in the Flesh was in that Arcade and I was having a Chat with one of the Blokes giving it a go I own this PCB now and it's a marvelous Shmup to be sure

Are there any Shmup-Meets that take place there?

[shmuppyLove]

But then I get sad notcing that it gets so few plays compared to Super Blaze Gear of Fighers 4 Arena Ultra Mega Black Label Turbo Arcade Edition.

Shit I didn't know Black Label was out already?!

[powersoul]

In Singapore, finding a shmup game is hard enough recently. I don't even see Raiden in any of the arcades that actually still panders with older games. Light gun games follows as the second least popular game around nowadays. Most arcades now only hold those UFO catchers, online card games such as Sangokushi Taisen 3 and the WCCF game, stupid fish-catching games, music, fighting and some weirder stuff. I missed all my favorite games like Worldcombat, Lethal Enforcers 3 and the entire Metal Slug series! (fan of gun games here, light or rail)

[Skykid]

Cool - I didn't realise that there was a dedicated Thread for Casino-Arcade.

As I recall there was also R-Type Leo up and running - I rarely see this PCB in the Flesh

You're very welcome.

[Jonathan Ingram]

Weren't fighting games slowly dying out before the resurgence with sf4?

No. That`s a meme. The release of SFIV had no effect on other fighting franchises. Tekken Tag Tournament 2 and Dead of Alive 5 both sold way below expectations and Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown didn`t even get a retail release. So much for a resurgence.

I took this hot piece of sex just for cj iwakura to masturbate over:

Kill it with fire!!! Every arcade that hosts this shit instead of actual good STGs should be firebombed.

[Hagane]

Shiki III is a good STG but, well, you.

But yeah, SFIV only revived Capcom fighters. Several franchises have done well before its release, both on consoles (Tekken, MK) and arcades (Tekken, VF, Guilty Gear, Melty Blood, Arcana Heart, KOF... most of which have done better than SFIV on Japanese arcades).

[Skykid]

Weren't fighting games slowly dying out before the resurgence with sf4?

No. That`s a meme. The release of SFIV had no effect on other fighting franchises. Tekken Tag Tournament 2 and Dead of Alive 5 both sold way below expectations and Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown didn`t even get a retail release. So much for a resurgence.

MVC3 Did pretty spiffingly, as did that Mortal Kombat junk, both pushing over 2 million copies. I don't know if SFIV single-handedly saved FG's from extinction (not sure they were ever on deaths door completely) but I think it was responsible for popularising the genre amongst a wider fan base and restoring enough interest to conjure up the likes of KOF XIII, Skullgirls and... SF X Tekken (puke.)

Kill it with fire!!! Every arcade that hosts this shit instead of actual good STGs should be firebombed.

Shiki III is a good STG but, well, you.

I don't see anything wrong with it. I've been coming back to it quite regularly, it's good fun.

Also, firebombing the arcade that hosts it is the equivalent, in gaming terms, of suggesting to burn down the Vatican, such is its eminence.

[n0rtygames]

It's been a few years since I moved out now, but I was actually planning to go back to London as a treat for the Mrs and do the rounds on the shmup cabinets while I was there.

Lived in London for 24 years, then I turn my back for 4 years and apparently Funland in the Trocadero has closed down now?

Does that leave any shmups in Central London at all?

I really don't mind the fighting games and I think it's great that they have a section dedicated to them, but are they gone? Sadly the person who told me it had shut down is more of a tourist and not really a Londoner so doesn't know the layout - so couldn't comment. They never went anywhere near that section.

[n0rtygames]

SF X Tekken (puke.)

What could possibly make you puke about Street Fighter Jab Jab Jab Crossup Pseudo-Tekken?

In all seriousness, they're hyping up this 2013 patch to be the 'fix that it needs'. I'm not sure if that's just nonsense though.

[xris]

I am absolutely drooling over the Shikigami 3 machine!

[moh]

Most of the time around here it's just one of the Aero Fighters games in a neglected Neo Geo.

I would love that cab like the child I never had.

dolphin also approves.

[Skykid]

I am absolutely drooling over the Shikigami 3 machine!

It's that Vewlix L cab. Never thought I'd get a crush on any cab without a CRT in it, but boy, the temptation.

[xris]

I would have to agree, who doesn't like a skinny babe dressed in black? Everyone here seems to crush on short, dumpy white girls.
The only arcade near me is a strange one. It's the Strong Museum of play video game exhibit. So, I have to pay TWO admissions, around $15 to get in, which cover admission to main building. Huge toy museum, huge displays, a complete history of toys - that's always getting bigger. And, they have a full size replica of Seasame Street!
The video game exhibit is sweet, a ton of consoles, they have most thanks to donations, and handhelds galore, including many LCD and red led units. Plus games and pharaphinalia.
Then you have to pay an additional $5-8 to get into the arcade, but you get a few dollars in tokens. Past that you are using old school token dollar machines. All the games are a quarter. They are all seriously retro. They have a two player Space War cab (only two player! And fun!) and even the fucking holographic Time Traveler! In all around 40-50 games. On the shumpin' side, there is Xevious (love!) and Dragon Blaze (meh, yeah I know you like it though. It's a good game.) I think there is also 1942 or something similar. And, Tempest, Robotron, Spy Hunter and the expected like.
I'm pretty sure the second fee is for up keep. You have no clue what it is like watching a very small, broke, bored child SWINGING from the joystick of a classic game cabinet.
They opened up another room where you can play wii and the like, but I've always avoided it. I only go about once or twice a year.

[gameoverDude]

The problem is, a good STG player makes the credits last more. Good fighting game players make the credits last less, meaning more money for the owner.

That said, there's no place for arcades anymore. Sadly, consoles have killed them in the West and are doing the same in the East. Skill based games have been losing ground to cinematic "games" for a good while.

Too true. The Tekken games can be finished rather quickly in SP mode. High score tables usually have 1st place times ranging between 2 and 3 minutes. I've finished Tekken 4's 1P mode in 1'59. The operator probably liked getting a quick 50 cents off that. It's even possible to clear a Tekken in under ONE minute.

USA arcades overdo redemption games. It seems that 35% (more?) of games in an arcade now are either crane, skeeball, or ticket games. When I saw the giant Connect 4 arcade game, all I could say was "WHY?". C4 is a good board game. But what in Hell is it doing in an arcade as a $14000/$2 per play dedicated SDX unit taking up a huge chunk of space? The maker should have done a Family Game Night multi-game unit in a regular cab instead.

On most gun games, a good player can get longer time per credit. Razing Storm takes probably about 30 minutes for a complete game. Time Crisis 3 & 4 aren't far off from that.

It's too bad that places like D&B/Gameworks tend to specialize in deluxe and redemption games. Very few games there have a joystick control panel. Racing games tend to be too numerous- about as bad as redemption games. It's a shame Taito's Nesica X Live cabs haven't shown up in the US.

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

Have they ever made a video game where if you do well enough you win some cheap stuffed toy or something? Maybe that's the way to go. If you beat the first level you win a piece of candy. If you 1CC the shmup and a stuffed toy drops out of the machine etc...

[CID]

I'm always amazed when I see a shmup arcade cab in wild. Coolest one I've ever seen was a dedicated Zero Gunner 1.

There's a dedicated Zero Gunner 1 at a pizza joint in a little town I often frequent.

[NTSC-J]

Have they ever made a video game where if you do well enough you win some cheap stuffed toy or something? Maybe that's the way to go. If you beat the first level you win a piece of candy. If you 1CC the shmup and a stuffed toy drops out of the machine etc...

I like the idea, but I don't think it would pan out well. These games generally originate in Japan, and a challenge like this would lead to guys showing up at arcades solely to empty out the machines. They'd be counterstopping like mad with gummy bears and Abba Zabbas flying everywhere.

UFO catchers already charge you 100-500 yen to "play" for some crappy puffed garlic rice candy for six seconds, so the games would have to be pretty expensive or at least more than 100 yen per credit to make up for the extra cost of supplying the crappy prizes.

I think a better idea would be cards that keep track of your stats (number of times cleared, average score per credit, total time played, etc.) and rank you against other players like with fighting games. I think Nesica cabs already do something like this, but they should flesh it out more.

[Skykid]

That said, there's no place for arcades anymore. Sadly, consoles have killed them in the West and are doing the same in the East. Skill based games have been losing ground to cinematic "games" for a good while.

It's so nice to be able to say that this isn't true for everywhere in the east. Believe me, I'm as surprised as you, but where I am right now, arcades have been reborn and nobody is interested in console gaming in the least. It's like I died and went to arcade heaven.

Christmas eve today, I decided to spend an entire £1 in the arcades. It took me an hour to get through 50p in Mario, since Raiden IV and Shikigami III give you 3 credits per 10p (1 Yuan), KOF XIII lasts for ages because it's so easy, and I got a few wins in on SFIV. I also gave Hook a go since Astro City's just have so much allure, and it's a pretty obscure (if not particularly special) scrolling beat-em-up. Hot Game Club is just kicking: Darius Burst (1 Yuan), Ninja Baseball Batman, couple of KOF 98 challenges and some Initial D 5 to round off. Best pound I spent this year.

[yyr]

Skill based games have been losing ground to cinematic "games" for a good while.

This is about the saddest thing I've read today. Even though I know it's true.

I'm going to keep playing (and creating) skill-testing games, but I realize that "lazy" Westerners like their easy, cinematic stuff better. Heck, it's kind of odd to think about it in this way, but the most popular skill-based game in the West must be...Call of Duty multiplayer.

I think the difference between fightans and shootans is: you can suck at fightans and still have fun. Sucking at STGs is not fun.

This isn't true for everyone. I still have never cleared anything that says "Cave" on it, and usually get murdered in Stage 3 of most of their games, but I still enjoy them all greatly. There are few experiences in gaming that are more intense than a shmup--a fact that we are all well aware of--regardless of one's skill level.

USA arcades overdo redemption games. It seems that 35% (more?) of games in an arcade now are either crane, skeeball, or ticket games.

Here's the deal: redemption is the only type of machine that turns a profit any more in the USA.

Yes, it's true.

My personally-owned DJMAX Technika 3 machine has lived at Peter Pan Games in Bayside, NY for a year and a couple of months, now. This location is in a strip mall and gets plenty of foot traffic from casuals. There are a number of regulars, as well. What else is in there? Other music games (IIDX20, pop'n 17, DDR X2/ITG2, Pump NX), Tekken 6:BR, some racing games (Maximum Tune 3, Initial D 3, Daytona Twin), some light guns (Time Crisis 3, Terminator Salvation)...and redemption/prize games. There are almost as many redemption/prize games as video games.

I speak to the owner regularly and he's very business-minded. For example, he won't purchase anything for the place unless it has a chance of making money. Regardless of what game it is, the video games, he says, max out at $100-150 a week (Technika was earning that for almost a year. Not any more), but quite a few of them earn far less. New video games cost between $6000 and $15000. By comparison, the boxing and prize games can make two to three times that, and cost less than half. Do the math...

Case in point: Technika 3 is an amazing game with high replay value. On the machine, upgrades and moving, I've spent a total of about $8000. I have received 50% of the money that the machine makes in its location since day one. I am just getting towards the halfway point of paying it off, which means it hasn't actually even taken in $8000 yet. Not being able to make any money on a game for over a year is just not a sustainable business model, you know?

If you feel that there is too much redemption, that's too bad, because the trend will continue. If you go to any Dave & Buster's location, you can already see that there is more redemption and less video than there used to be. Until such time that arcades become popular again--which is not impossible, but will take at least 5-10 more years if it happens, I think--this will be the status quo, for those few locations that are still left.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I am absolutely drooling over the Shikigami 3 machine!

Yeah, under that hood is the ol' Taito Type X engine powering up that beautiful Shikigami 3 shmup title. Quite something, ain't it (especially on a proper high-res CRT-based arcade monitor)?

Was recently down at a local bowling alley joint called "The McHenry Bowl" in Modesto, CA and they still have the ol' International Version of Psikyo's Gunbird 2 up & running with a tate'd monitor and the usual Happ arcade controls in place. It takes two quarters per credit nowdays (and another two quarters just to continue if so desired). Was fun to play it for ol' times sake.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Ed Oscuro]

Until such time that arcades become popular again--which is not impossible, but will take at least 5-10 more years if it happens, I think--this will be the status quo, for those few locations that are still left.

Possible but really not probable - unless technology moves to the point where you can't really identify traditional arcade components, but some of this "augmented reality" type stuff might be available to consumers anyway. If anything it'll be a rather short resurgence fading out again as the technology fans out to consumers. Traditional video games will always have a niche but it's not near where it used to be, nor can that traditional type regain that profitability model.

[gameoverDude]

For arcades to be profitable again, they'd likely have to regain the advantage over consoles (and PCs). Probably not going to happen soon.

Sega Rally 3 arcade does have a hardware advantage over consoles (60 FPS vs 30) but newer PCs can own it graphically. I'm wondering what will come out on Taito's Type X3 system. I remember Shou saying "CPU is configurable with the high end being an i7 2.6 Ghz, standard is Intel Q67 Express with 2GB DDR3. Standard video card is surprisingly, a Radeon HD 6770 or can be upgraded to a GeForce GTX 560Ti. Video output is not HDMI, still DVI. ". Ahead of current gen consoles surely, but I think PS4 and Next Xbox will smoke it.

Even if STGs die in arcades, I think the PC & console market will still be open for them. We'll still see dojin gems like Crimzon Clover. A possible problem is that casuals see STGs as "too hard" after their first credit lasts about 90 seconds. Though the free play on consoles does get around that. To regain audience, STGs on console should probably go for a $25-40 price instead of the $60 commanded by high-budget titles like Call of Duty, Crysis, Elder Scrolls etc.
Regular video games could try rewarding certain achievements in game with tickets- such as 1 ticket for every 150 stars grabbed on a DoDonPachi, 2 tickets for no-missing a stage, etc. Atari Games' Road Runner had a feature that allowed the player to win tickets by picking up the "WIN" card on screen.

About 2 years ago, a former Gameworks near my location reopened under new ownership as a place called KDB. At first I was glad to see it back, but now I honestly couldn't care less. They haven't updated their game selection in ages, and it seems like they've REMOVED a few games (Time Crisis 3 and a few others). The maintenance of games isn't so good there either.

One redemption game that I'll actually play sometimes is Deal or no Deal, but that one's not over as soon as your coins hit the bottom of the box. It costs $1.00, but it takes about three minutes to complete instead of 15-45 seconds.