The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.

[Obscura]

Maybe I'm weird then, but I find that if I screw something up and drop the rank through the floor that it messes me up really badly.

For instance, stage 5, high rank? No problem. Low rank? The early turtle-tanks end up giving me problems, because the popcorn bullets won't clear out fast enough for me to be able to sprint to the top to dragonshot the turtles quickly enough.

[Obscura]

AAAARRRGH, Garegga stage 2 is really starting to piss me off.

Between the gunblimp at the beginning, that rocket-tank about 2/3rds of the way through, and the two gun-planes at the end, there's a retardedly high chance that I'm dropping a medal in that stage for literally about 1,000,000 point loss plus a bunch of extra rank.

[O. Van Bruce]

I'M FUCKING SICK OF PINK SWEETS SLOW BULLETS!

AND THAT EVERY ENEMY MAKES SO MUCH SMOKE ON THE SCREEN THAT I CAN'T EVEN DISTINGUISH BULLETS.

It's horrible

[Eaglet]

1,000,000 point loss plus a bunch of extra rank.

This is a lie.
I don't have the exact numbers but you'll lose about 200-300 thousand if you reset the medal value before stage 3 and don't bother increasing it while bombing.

[Deca]

AAAARRRGH, Garegga stage 2 is really starting to piss me off.

Between the gunblimp at the beginning, that rocket-tank about 2/3rds of the way through, and the two gun-planes at the end, there's a retardedly high chance that I'm dropping a medal in that stage for literally about 1,000,000 point loss plus a bunch of extra rank.

Really? It sounds like you just need to plan a route, I don't find myself dropping medals until stage 4 unless I make a big mistake in 3.

Pro tip for the tank, learn when it appears (hint: use the music) and set yourself up to be sitting right on top of it the whole time it's on screen. I remember it giving me some headaches before I started doing that.

With the two medium planes at the end you just need to focus on weakening everything and then destroying it in a controlled manner. Also work on being able to spot where medals can be dropped if necessary without breaking chain.

As for the blimp at the beginning, work on learning the suicide strategies. Even if you mess it up and don't collect the medals such that you boost their value it's still a much easier way to grab them all safely and consistently. I'd recommend going after the right side if you try a double suicide, since if the timing is off you end up respawning right under where the left side is falling.

[Obscura]

AAAARRRGH, Garegga stage 2 is really starting to piss me off.

Between the gunblimp at the beginning, that rocket-tank about 2/3rds of the way through, and the two gun-planes at the end, there's a retardedly high chance that I'm dropping a medal in that stage for literally about 1,000,000 point loss plus a bunch of extra rank.

Really? It sounds like you just need to plan a route, I don't find myself dropping medals until stage 4 unless I make a big mistake in 3.

Pro tip for the tank, learn when it appears (hint: use the music) and set yourself up to be sitting right on top of it the whole time it's on screen.

That's how I've been attempting the tank for the last few days, but the popcorn on the sides causes me endless problems when I try this. Either I go options forward and get sniped since I have to focus my vision on the tank's turret to stay in the right place, or I go spread and then everything goes to hell once a medal gets dropped on the side.

Honestly, I have much more problems medalling stage 2 than I do 3 or 4- although I'm not attempting the bridges in 4, so that does take out the hardest medalling moment of that stage.

@Eaglet: my scores after a stage 2 drop are consistently about 800k-1mil lower than scores without a drop there. It's not just that the medal caches in that stage have low value after a drop; I can't even go for them at all after a drop, since a single 400 point medal does the same thing to rank as a max-collected option, and 1-3 are also painful. Revealing a bunch of low value medals at once is like begging the rank to sodomize me as hard as possible.

[Deca]

If you get on top of the tank right away and have 2 or 3 options it'll go down well before you trigger a medal. Just make sure you're positioned such that you're only killing the aerial enemies on one side until the screen cleans up and you shouldn't have trouble.

Also, sorry I haven't responded to your PM. I've been weirdly busy lately and actually haven't been playing a ton of DOJ lately. I'll take another look at it when I have a minute if you'd still like me to.

[Obscura]

Which option formation are you using on that section? I'm sticking to 2 options max right now for rank reasons (using Gain).

Also, I haven't played much DOJ in weeks; my last period with the game was utterly frustrating towards the end. I had one run come stupidly close to a clear (made it to the stage 5 boss with 4 lives and 2 bombs on my current life... managed to game over having used exactly one bomb), and was never able to get another run like that, which ended up really pissing me off. I'll eventually get back to it, but not right now.

[trap15]

Whenever I fight the tank, I start with Wide, then I go around him and switch to Back, then finish the circle with a Forward for the kill.

Works very well for me.

[Deca]

I'm also using Gain, I think I usually 2 options there. I use the normal formation, if you stay right over the turret you won't hit any enemies that are low enough on the screen to endanger your medal chain. I have an .inp from trap's tournament I could toss your way if you'd like.

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt I can get into the second loop on DOJBL, I'm especially optimistic because of a recent revelation. Turns out the computer and mame build (shmupmame3.0) I'd been using for all of my practice was laggy. When I started playing in my ash-build I immediately noticed a difference. No more confusing deaths micrododging, no more "I KNOW I BOMBED WHAT THE HELL" moments, a lot more confidence in general. I'd probably already have the clear if I didn't have chaining paths through the first two stages, since I know how to do it right I have a really hard time continue past that point if I screw it up. That said I've only been playing the odd credit here and there, most of my recent shootin has been Touhou.

[Obscura]

An inp would be cool if you could do it. What version of MAME are you running? I'm using Garemame, but obviously I can use whatever version you're using.

Shmupmame 2.2 handles DOJ lag-free, if you're willing to put up with really messed up sound. Shmupmame 3 is built off of an older version of MAME than 2.2 is, and 2.2 was early in the days of PGM emulation, so 3 is probably bad for DOJ, Ketsui, and Espgaluda.

What is ash-build?

[Deca]

I honestly don't know the specifics of what Ash-Build is, a friend suggested it to me and sent it my way. It has amazing compatibility and runs everything I've tried in it with less lag than Shmupmame. The full folder name is mameplus(ash-build)-0.144u4-bin_(20111225). I'm sure someone around here knows more about it than me, I've never been particularly savvy with the specifics of mame. On this machine I've only used 2.2 since I could never get 3 working, and for whatever reason I couldn't get DOJ going in 2.2.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/36787962/bgaregga%206.8.inp
Here's the inp, it was recorded in 2.2. Not my personal best, just the best I could manage in the 3 days I got to play for the tournament.

[BPzeBanshee]

Shmupmame 2.2 handles DOJ lag-free, if you're willing to put up with really messed up sound. Shmupmame 3 is built off of an older version of MAME than 2.2 is, and 2.2 was early in the days of PGM emulation, so 3 is probably bad for DOJ, Ketsui, and Espgaluda.

Wrong.

The PGM drivers were completed then backported. They work fine in v3.0b.

And if Deca is talking about actual FPS lag then the only reason Ashbuild is better is because Shmupmame v2.2 is a performance hog as I've been telling everyone for the last year and several months beforehand. Again, v3.0b is better in that department, if you can get it to run without the DEP Exception error (I update Windows 7 frequently and it works fine for me).

[SuperSoaker360]

Played some Trouble Witches NEO a couple of nights ago. No-miss on all the stages on the hardest difficulty (Mind Blowing is what it was called but I'm not sure if it's different for the Japanese version) except for the last stage. For some reason, I train-wrecked and game over'd before even reaching the final boss.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

I really wish I didn't suck.

I've been playing a lot of Futari BL God Mode recently. Best score is slightly over 2 billion. I still don't have the 1cc because I derp all sorts of places in my runs. And there's still places I don't know how to consistently no miss no bomb. Stuff like the stage 3 and 5 midbosses. Also parts of stage 4 because I haven't practiced it much, so my strategy is to pretty much just wing it.

I really need to get consistent at no miss no bombing most of the game because I'd like to do a Spiritual Larsa clear sometime next year, unless something ridiculous happens and I somehow not derp at all in a run this year.

[AntiFritz]

Playing pink sweets on mame with a keyboard and accidently using rose crackers when I meant to change speed to cancel out of them.

[O. Van Bruce]

Playing pink sweets on mame with a keyboard and accidently using rose crackers when I meant to change speed to cancel out of them.

Also, don't you hate when you restart so many times that you end getting worse with every restart? I was just playing Pink Sweets and I was finding myself dying to stupid stuff in my late runs after getting to stage 4 boss (and collecting an extend + the 3rd stage hidden extend) on my first run.

[SuperSoaker360]

Trying to loop Ketsui.
For the last two weeks, I've been playing Ketsui for at least 3 hours a day.


For the last two weeks, I've been Ketsui's bitch for at least 3 hours a day.

[Zengeku3]

Keep it going strong mate, you'll get it eventually.

[O. Van Bruce]

Trying to loop Ketsui.
For the last two weeks, I've been playing Ketsui for at least 3 hours a day.


For the last two weeks, I've been Ketsui's bitch for at least 3 hours a day.

Kepp going there... may I join the fight?

[O. Van Bruce]

Don't you find annoying when you are trying to score perfectly a game but you end up dying too much times due to the scoring?

I know it's old but I'm having a very hard case of it at Ketsui...

[KAI]

That's risk/reward for you.
I'm having the same problem with Crimson Clover, I just want to 1CC this shit once and for all.

[Keith]

Bosses with regenerating health (see also: Jakou's last attack in Espgaluda, or Yoshika in Ten Desires).
Just die already, please!

[O. Van Bruce]

I've used savestates for the first time in my life...

After 30, I stopped counting how much times I've repeated stage 3 of Ketsui... welp... at least I have completely memorized the lay-out

Also, the extra cubes when locking glitch is unfair.

[Skykid]

Scoring like a lunatic on the first two stages of Shiki 3 and driving the rank into the roof, then getting ruined every time on the third stage. Wouldn't be such a pain if the first two stages weren't so bloody long.

[SuperSoaker360]

Still Ketsui. Pretty much nearing 70 hours of total play time according to MAME (however admittedly only the last 20 hours have been spent practicing for the loop). It still really irks me at how I can never get better at the game. Even a 1CC is like once in a blue moon.

And just earlier I loaded up DOJ and did two runs. Effortlessly got a 1CC on my second run with no routes planned. I wish Ketsui was as forgiving as DOJ.

[Xeno]

Hmmphm, died to the last boss in DOJ BL and was only few seconds away from victory but my performance was not enough :I

I have never got this far on this game allthought I have been playing it on off for a year or so and I had allready kinda given up on the goal of 1CC:ing the game. The good thing is my dodging and game reading skills seem to be better than before, what has caused it I am not sure since I haven´t really been playing lately any intensive shmups, maybe it´s the few credits I have been throwing to Touhou lately. For instance the last part of stage 5 does not seem like an unbearable wall of bullets anymore and I can actually dodge in the bullet mess it is. The negative part of all this is that I am very inconsistent in this game and many times I can die even to the 2nd boss or make a stupid mistake in stage 3 and losing lives early in a game where I really need all the lives I can get can make going for the 1CC very frustrating experience.

[Keith]

Throw another complaint on the fire:
The laser rings in stage 5 of DFK. The ruiner of many a decent run.

[J_Taishu]

I played Mushihime Futari Maniac 1.5 yesterday for the first time in six months and ALMOST got to the boss of stage 4 with no problem. Yet I don't really feel like giving the game all that much more effort because of how much scoring you need to do in order to get the two extends. Why not just make it so the 2 extends happen organically even if you're just playing for survival

[DrTrouserPlank]

Throw another complaint on the fire:
The laser rings in stage 5 of DFK. The ruiner of many a decent run.

Any game that requires you to chain the whole fucking game like it's one long memory sequence is an outright disaster anyway. Where's the fun in this zero-deviation-from-optimal-scoring/survival-path anyway?

In honesty that applies to lots of shmups but all-or-nothing-chain-scoring is the worst by far