Ghosts n Goblins - background flashes, question for owners

[system11]

I've got three Ghosts n Goblins PCBs here.

Two of them seem to have occasional flashes on the backgrounds - just like one colour on the tiles is wrong for 1 frame. It happens occasionally (maybe once every two plays) on the initial tower section of stage 2, particularly if you climb quite high quickly. After that you don't really see it again until stage 4, particularly if a lot of enemies appear at once and you climb higher. It happens more in stage 5, again mostly when vertical movement is involved. Both of these PCBs are a very green colour, single RAM underneath near the tile roms is a 200ns one.

The other one is currently broken - but before it died I don't remember it doing this, but perhaps I hadn't played it enough. The security masking on this board is a different colour, closer to a gold/brown. The RAM near the tile ROMs underneath is a 150ns one.

All the boards are original.

So for any other owners out there - have you noticed the occasional colour flashes, and what part number is on your RAM chip on the video board near the tile ROMs. With the connector away from you, it'll be on your right along the edge halfway up. Same width as a ROM. I'm starting to wonder if a) they all do it, or b) it's related to some batches having a slower RAM from the factory, or c) (very unlikely) I have two boards with an identical fault that manifests itself in specific game locations when you do certain things.

[system11]

Look what I found.

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/archive ... 79981.html

Situation normal.

[Ed Oscuro]

Urgh, our board software adds a trailing / to the URL which needs to be removed.

Interesting stuff.

The one thing nobody on KLOV mentioned is - did this happen back when the game was first released at all?

[system11]

I doubt people cared back then. Operators care that money goes in the slot. Collectors didn't really exist.

[antron]

This could get more interesting still. Perhaps it is possible to design a very-aftermarket fix.

[Tyranix95]

BOO!!!

[Tyranix95]

For those who are wondering:

The graphics glitches are NOT normal inspite of the fact that these ARE common.

[antron]

For those who are wondering:

The graphics glitches are NOT normal inspite of the fact that these ARE common.

so how do you fix them?

[Tyranix95]

Figure out which RAM/TTL chips are not working right and replace.

And it's no fun considering the board.

So far, I've only managed to clear up the Into-To-The-Caves, where all the Bats drop down from the Ceiling.

[system11]

For those who are wondering:

The graphics glitches are NOT normal inspite of the fact that these ARE common.

So it's not normal, except that on your one you seem to have replaced at least half of the potential culprits and ruled out other possibilities like ribbons with almost nothing to show for it, and there are shedloads of people complaining about the same issue. It honestly would not surprise me in the least if most of these did it from the factory, one of my sets looks virtually unused. That would put it in the same ballpark as (for example) Strider, which has sprites that half vanish and break up on every single example that exists, in specific places where the hardware can't cope.

Had you replaced the RAM yet near the tile ROMs? Comparing my boards that's the one single chip which is definitely different - 150ns instead of 200ns. Unfortunately that set isn't well enough to actually reach stage 2 and check on the big fall where it scrolls a lot. The other two are identical, even the makes of every chip match - interestingly one does it more visibly than the other, although it's the exact same places and durations. Another thought, have you tried replacing the crystal? On the currently dead board I went through 3 crystals and LS04s before I found a pair that would play well together. I could run that top board with one of the working bases and see if that makes a difference.

The chips are all working right - TTL chips do not slow down with age, and where the output levels fall you get permanent problems which don't rely on specific combinations of location, sprites and movement. Looks like Capcom were right on the edge with this hardware.

The bats area flashes very infrequently on my working sets, I have to really rush that section to force an error. I'm loathe to replace the RAM myself since it's currently working, due to all the collectors these days demanding unrepaired PCBs.

[Tyranix95]

Almost only counts in Horseshoes, Hand Grenades, and Pregnancies.

Ghosts is custom (unique) Capcom hardware. They pushed nothing. And the glithces are so bad (on my board at least) that the game is unplayable in the castle. Capcom quality control would not let such a game be published. It's BAD--like POKEMON seizure BAD--not Strider missing sprits bad. The board has some bad parts on it. I've seen this type of glitch on a Konami Life Force board too.

I asked one of the ROMSTAR guys about the glitches (before he got ill and died). He said he thinks the board is holding the previous frames during the re-draw and not letting it go but has not clue why. Both Chanelmaniac and MKL think it's the problem is burried somewhere inside the Scrolling Object Data Ram/Rom lines 'cause the glitch seems verticaly activated. Both mainman and Shadowkn55 thinks the promlem lies in RAM or some TTL chips near some RAM.

Last time I looked at my board, I was working my way throught the Clock page when my board started up with some funky graphics (charater sprites missing detail every other line) and then went Grey screen on me on the next boot. So, next time I look at it, I'm planning to check some ram and the clock. Iicc, I replaced both Ram chips at 7A and 7H when I replaced the 74LS245 chips.

[Ed Oscuro]

So it's not normal, except that on your one you seem to have replaced at least half of the potential culprits and ruled out other possibilities like ribbons with almost nothing to show for it, and there are shedloads of people complaining about the same issue. It honestly would not surprise me in the least if most of these did it from the factory

This, it seems honestly like a shame to tear up so much of a classic board.

Yes, it apparently wasn't the original design to do this - but is there any proof that boards didn't ship with these issues?

[kebrank]

Ghost and Goblins is my all time favorite game. I played it to death like the second part, but unlike Ghost and Ghouls that is easy to finish, i was never able to 1CC. However I can reach the first loop final stage almost every time.
There are parts in the game where you can force the background to flash, this is no secret. I have played tons of ghost and goblins machines and i was able to do it on all of them. As example, In the cave stage just before you go up and the new section starts (time gets added), there is a point where if you move the stick fast right and left again and again when firing your weapon, zombies will start showing in big numbers and the background will flash like crazy, no randomness here. I remember people using this trick in the 80's to get a bunch of points before moving to the next section. Ghost'n Goblins is notorius for weird stuff, like the castle stage with the dogface guardians jumping between floors, etc. So in my opinion the flashes are NORMAL.
Thanks,
\o/.k.

[BuckoA51]

Ghost and Ghouls that is easy to finish

Ghouls and Ghosts is easy to finish!? Geez, this forum's worse than porn for making me feel inadequate.

[system11]

If it helps I used at least 20 credits getting to stage 5 to test the bastard thing.

[kebrank]

It was a mistake call Ghouls'n Ghosts easy but any Cave game is way harder to loop ( I can't finish any). Ghost'n Goblins extreme difficulty comes at the end of the castle when you have to kill the Vampires with the shield/cross. Both are fantastic games.
\o/.k.

[bencao74]

I`ve also Ghost`s Goblin PCB in my Quadro Cab. Never made the second stage

[channelmaniac]

There are a bunch of 74LS245 latches on the main data bus. The only way I've seen those flashes reduced was to replace those chips with a different brand. It's timing glitches that don't have any other effect ont he game.

[system11]

I found the actual timing circuit itself is ... very sensitive too, wrong brand of 7404 and it won't even tick.

[lovecraft]

For those who are wondering:

The graphics glitches are NOT normal inspite of the fact that these ARE common.

Are you sure of it ? Sources ?

So it's not normal, except that on your one you seem to have replaced at least half of the potential culprits and ruled out other possibilities like ribbons with almost nothing to show for it, and there are shedloads of people complaining about the same issue. It honestly would not surprise me in the least if most of these did it from the factory, one of my sets looks virtually unused. That would put it in the same ballpark as (for example) Strider, which has sprites that half vanish and break up on every single example that exists, in specific places where the hardware can't cope.

Had you replaced the RAM yet near the tile ROMs? Comparing my boards that's the one single chip which is definitely different - 150ns instead of 200ns. Unfortunately that set isn't well enough to actually reach stage 2 and check on the big fall where it scrolls a lot. The other two are identical, even the makes of every chip match - interestingly one does it more visibly than the other, although it's the exact same places and durations. Another thought, have you tried replacing the crystal? On the currently dead board I went through 3 crystals and LS04s before I found a pair that would play well together. I could run that top board with one of the working bases and see if that makes a difference.

The chips are all working right - TTL chips do not slow down with age, and where the output levels fall you get permanent problems which don't rely on specific combinations of location, sprites and movement. Looks like Capcom were right on the edge with this hardware.

The bats area flashes very infrequently on my working sets, I have to really rush that section to force an error. I'm loathe to replace the RAM myself since it's currently working, due to all the collectors these days demanding unrepaired PCBs.

I have the very same flash glitch at the tower section with my G&G board (US region)... It happens once in a while.
I watched a longplay of the game on Youtube (Mame emulated version), and I could notice it as well in the same place, so... My guess it IS a "normal" glitch

[jepjepjep]

...
I watched a longplay of the game on Youtube (Mame emulated version), and I could notice it as well in the same place, so... My guess it IS a "normal" glitch

Now this is interesting. Can you link to the longplay?

For the record, my PCB also has the glitches. It happens more often when the screen scrolls vertically.

[gomados]

same problem here....

maybe with this http://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-vi ... matics.pdf

we can do something


this board came with italian bootleg version on eproms 3,4 and 5 , second level ice lift flashed but on 3 level bats no, i reflashed the eproms to japan version G and flashes in ice lift and on bats also, i reflashed to italian bootleg and flashes in lift but not on bats.

strange.

[Zipangu]

Hi! I'm totally new to the forums... but, since this thread deals with Ghosts 'n Goblins hardware, I wanted to ask for some advice on my PCB. I have an original, but it came with some background problems. Luckily, a friend of mine helped me: after some duds, he changed the 273 at 5A and the backgrounds went back to normal. However, now we have a real nightmare: background tiles have priority problems, so the sprites of Arthur and the enemies appear behind tiles. We have probed a lot of places and changed some suspicious pieces to no avail. We also found some doc http://www.gtoal.com/gp32/src/drivers/gng.c that points to a particular bit that affects tile priority (BACKGROUND TILE FORMAT), but we don't really know where it is located on the PCB. Any hunch regarding this? I suspected the Scroll Video Ram section on the Schematics but we have had no luck at all.