Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

[EmperorIng]

Of the shmups I've played, the only ones where playing for score has been an engaging and fun experience has been Giga Wing 2, Dragon Blaze, and RayForce, as simple as its scoring mechanics are.

My copy of Space Invaders Extreme 2 came in the mail today, so at work I was able to bust it out a few times. I'm digging the Vegas neon-carnival aesthetic, and I love its silly score-rush attitude. My initial play hasn't really found any strategy beyond mashing the fire-button really fast at everything, but since this is Space Invaders, I don't think complicated scoring mechanics are the name of the game.

I'd love to get Arkanoid DS and the Arkanoid paddle as well, so I can play both Arkanoid and Space Invaders like a boss, using the Arkanoid paddle. It would make an extreme game even extremer.

[jepjepjep]

There's a survival run on youtube that shows how to keep the rank low enough to clear it without any medal collection.

Link please?
I just started playing Garegga on that last post I made, it's pretty neat [the music and visuals are sexy]. Reading about the scoring and rank system bothers me a bit. Been playing as Golden Bat because I've died least with it.

To be fair, the only scoring systems I've ever really liked are in Dangun Feveron [kill things ASAP for more flashing things, collect all the flashing things, they bounce off the bottom off the screen] and in Mars Matrix [where you can pretty much spawn cubes whenever you need them as long as bullets are on screen and you haven't reflected within the last 5 seconds].

Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjaunQC1 ... 0C0DE0562C

As luck would have it, the replay is with Golden Bat.

[CoolgyFurlough]

So I got bored so I decided to do the list that Illyrian is always posting, and it ended up with my first 1cc.

I mean it was Touhou 8 on easy, but I'll take what I can get. I'm not really sure if I want to count it as a first 1cc though.

I'm also not sure why so many people complain about Touhou; while the level design leaves something to be desired, the bosses are fun enough.

[null1024]

So I got bored so I decided to do the list that Illyrian is always posting, and it ended up with my first 1cc.

I mean it was Touhou 8 on easy, but I'll take what I can get. I'm not really sure if I want to count it as a first 1cc though.

I'm also not sure why so many people complain about Touhou; while the level design leaves something to be desired, the bosses are fun enough.

That's my only 1CC so far, and I don't count it. Imperishable Night on Easy is easy enough to be beaten while feeling the effects of sleep-dep at 4am. Which coincidentally were the conditions I did it in. I'd count it on Normal though, even if it isn't too bad [fuck you Marisa, only time on my Easy run that I really might have lost, before or after].

People complain about Touhou because the level design is almost non existent and that people say shit like "Touhou is harder than $INSERT_CAVE_GAME" [also lolis and slow bullets].

[Softdrink 117]

Congrats on the 1CC!

I personally think that a lot of the distaste for Touhou comes from the overall pacing and flow of the games. Boss battles are too long, stages are short and forgettable for the most part. I feel like if things were faster and less repetitive they would be way more interesting-- the patterns in the Touhou games are great fun, but as bosses get more and more health you might be dodging one pattern for a minute or more, which kind of kills the interest.

They're not by any means bad games, and there are moments where they're paced wonderfully-- case in point the last stage of Perfect Cherry Blossom, where the music is really well synchronized with the action on screen. Makes for a really dramatic 1CC, even if the difficulty isn't insane.

The other thing that bugs me about the series is that it has a really big fanbase that is more interested in BEING part of the Touhou fandom than it is in actually PLAYING the games. >.<

[SuperSoaker360]

I feel like if things were faster and less repetitive they would be way more interesting

We need more bosses like this.
Screw conversations. I want shit thrown at my face already.

[null1024]

I feel like if things were faster and less repetitive they would be way more interesting

We need more bosses like this.
Screw conversations. I want shit thrown at my face already.

Holy shit that boss looked cool.


in somewhat unrelated news, is the Android version of DDP: Resurrection any good, or does it have issues?

[trap15]

It's pretty damn good. Certainly not a replacement for the X360 version, but that's mostly just because there aren't any arcade controls.

[null1024]

It's pretty damn good. Certainly not a replacement for the X360 version, but that's mostly just because there aren't any arcade controls.

Oh sweet. Once I have more than $15 in funds [so, around Christmas], I'll pick it up.

[Hagane]

the level design is almost non existent

This is totally false though. I'd say UFO has better level design than most of Cave's output.

[Obscura]

the level design is almost non existent

This is totally false though. I'd say UFO has better level design than most of Cave's output.

Non existent is better than actively bad

[trap15]

This is totally false though. I'd say UFO has better level design than most of Cave's output.

UFO is the only Touhou I can think of that actually has stage design.

Also, CAVE's stage designs, while typically not extraordinary, aren't nearly as bad as some people would like to say. I can certainly think of worse.

[Hagane]

Uh, for other Touhou games to not have level design the game should be random till the bosses or a boss rush. But in its best games (UFO, SA, IN), level design is actually quite clever. Another plus is that its characters tend to have more variation than "this one has a wide but weak shot and this one has a straight focused one that deals more damage".

And, really, Cave bosses last just as much or more than Touhou bosses.

[trap15]

They might as well be random. The "stage design" is so sloppy and everywhere, that it's hard to even call it design in the first place. I don't really care about character variation, since there's usually only one "good" one in most STG.

As far as bosses go, at least CAVE ones have variation instead of shooting the same pattern at you for 1.5 minutes.

[chum]

Uh, for other Touhou games to not have level design the game should be random till the bosses or a boss rush. But in its best games (UFO, SA, IN), level design is actually quite clever. Another plus is that its characters tend to have more variation than "this one has a wide but weak shot and this one has a straight focused one that deals more damage".

And, really, Cave bosses last just as much or more than Touhou bosses.

You're talking to someone that can't beat 2 stages of a Touhou game or dodge even the simplest patterns. Don't take him seriously.

[Softdrink 117]

I'm going to agree with trap on this one. Like I said, there are some rare moments where the Touhou games really come into their own, but on the whole the experience is just much less interesting than what CAVE has to offer.

Admittedly CAVE's more recent games have stage design that can best be described as 'make cool setpieces and fill the void with zako,' but one thing that I've never found lacking in a CAVE title -- even the easier ones like Akai Katana and DFK Strong -- is a sense of pacing and intensity that keeps me interested as a player. And yes, CAVE boss fights can be just as long as those in Touhou, but the patterns actually change during that process (I'm not counting true last bosses because those are SUPPOSED to be ridiculous survival grinds).

Again though, I think that Touhou are great games in their own right. PCB is an awesomely fun 1CC.

Also, I definitely need to look into the Seihou series; that video was pretty awesome. @_@

[trap15]

You're talking to someone that can't beat 2 stages of a Touhou game or dodge even the simplest patterns.

lol, is that supposed to be me?

[Obscura]

Admittedly CAVE's more recent games have stage design that can best be described as 'make cool setpieces and fill the void with zako,' but one thing that I've never found lacking in a CAVE title -- even the easier ones like Akai Katana and DFK Strong -- is a sense of pacing and intensity that keeps me interested as a player.

Play some Psikyo games and you'll find it lacking, aside from maybe in Ketsui.

Hell, even though I don't a lot of their output, Raizing also kick's Cave's ass in this department.

[Giest118]

I dunno about you guys, but I'm the kind of guy who plays Touhou sometimes and am all like, "I am enjoying myself. I am enjoying the process of playing this interactive video entertainment." And I play Cave games at other times and I'm all like, "I am enjoying this video game. It has good fun-ness in it."

And other times I'll play Touhou and am all like "FUCK DAMN IT WHY ARE THE BULLETS SO CLOSE TOGETHER, CLIP DEATHS UP THE SNATCH" and other times I'll play Cave and am all like "FUCKING SHIT WHY DO THOSE CENTIPEDES HAVE SUCH UNPREDICTABLE AMOUNTS OF HEALTH" or "GOD CUNT IT I WAS ONE PIXEL OFF FROM WHERE I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THERE GOES 99% OF MY SCORE"

No matter what shmup I'm playing, I'll be enjoying it, it'll love being played by me, but then it'll get pissed off and start beating me like an abusive husband. And like an abused wife, I just keep coming back because I love it too much.

[/not really contributing anything]




Still playing MushiFutari. After my random Black Label Maniac 1cc that came out of fucking nowhere, I had a couple of off days where every run sucked ass.

[trap15]

aside from maybe in Ketsui.

This is strange to hear, as I personally think Ketsui's stage design (aesthetics aside) is pretty poor. Could you explain why you think it has good design, I'm honestly curious.

Hell, even though I don't a lot of their output, Raizing also kick's Cave's ass in this department.

I don't think anyone can deny this. Raizing's stage design is top-notch; almost perfection if I may.

[Obscura]

aside from maybe in Ketsui.

This is strange to hear, as I personally think Ketsui's stage design (aesthetics aside) is pretty poor. Could you explain why you think it has good design, I'm honestly curious.

It's been a while since I last played it seriously, but as I recall, it was a sense of really being overwhelmed without resorting to that dumb Dangun Feveron "hey, let's throw the same wave at the player over and over and over and over and over as long as he keeps speedkilling it" thing, combined with a lot of patterns that are "twists" on normal shmup patterns (for instance, the spread turrets in the front stage that are set up so that the outside bullets are actually firing through the center of the pattern; it's sort of like a typical spread pattern, but when close up, it messes with your perception a lot, and even when not close up, the bullets end up moving at an angle that feels slightly wrong).

Admittedly, the mechanics of the lockshot also play a big role in how frantic it feels.

What don't you like about it?

I don't think anyone can deny this. Raizing's stage design is top-notch; almost perfection if I may.

Yeah, I may not like Garegga, but there's no denying that the only thing I know of that competes with it in stage design is Batrider.

[Hagane]

Maybe some of you guys in the ultra cool Touhou hate bandwagon should observe the games a bit more closely, or watch some superplays before throwing around these "nonexistent level design" claims? I know that actually playing the games and watching good players changed my opinion on them.

[Softdrink 117]

Play some Psikyo games and you'll find it lacking, aside from maybe in Ketsui.

Lol, I was playing Psikyo games all weekend. XD

I'll agree that Psikyo and Raizing have excellent and very consistent stage design. They're both phenomenal developers.

However, I personally don't find quite the same kind of intensity in shmups from other developers as I do in CAVE games. It's not blind OMGZZZITSCAVEIMCUMMING fandom; the reason I'm a fan of CAVE is that almost all of their games has a very specific 'flavor' to the pacing and intensity. Is the level design necessarily objectively great? Nope. But is it satisfying? Absolutely.

Back on topic:
This thread inspired me to play Perfect Cherry Blossom and Imperishable Night again. I choked at Prismriver and Marisa, respectively. I had a lot of fun heading back through these games; it's been a while since I played any of the Touhou titles.

[EmperorIng]

Well Hagane, you can rest assured knowing that 90% of my hate for Touhou has nothing to do with the games at all!

More Space Invaders Extreme 2, and a little bit of Space Invaders '91 (just for the music, honestly. Because the music in that game is superb).

My initial impression of Time Attack mode in SIE2 is that it's sorta pointless... What's the point of beating a score-rush game as fast as possible, ignoring score? Just a thought.

The actual score-rush part is fun, though my thumb gets a little worn out by constantly mashing the fire button. I haven't made it past stage 3 yet, so I'm glad I haven't breezed through things yet. Trying to set up your FEVER TIMEs and SUPAH FEVAH TIME (the latter of which is unfortunately random, unless I misunderstand game mechanics) is a nice way to keep things interesting.

[AweOfShe]

Gaiares was recommended to me by a friend, so I'm about to give the game a go.

[Aquas]

Dragon Spirit. Determined to kill this one this week. DIE!!!

[Tyjet]

I've been firing up Deathsmiles MBL for last couple of weeks to get that sadistic achievement. This is a typical night:

First 6 lvl999 stages executed nicely, no miss lvl999 Ice palace , Go through lvl999 Canyon and get hit during the boss.

Restart...

First 6 lvl999 stages executed nicely, no miss Ice palace, no miss Canyon, start Castle and get hit at the very beginning.

Restart...

First 6 lvl999 stages executed nicely, start Ice Palace and get hit mid-stage....
I'll start again tomarrow

[Obscura]

I'm starting to warm up to Garegga, I think.

It can be one frustrating game at times- there really aren't many things as enraging as watching as a medal manages to perfectly overlap the missiles fired from those turrets in the first half of stage 3- but holy crap, it's intense as hell. A combination of gray-bullet induced paranoia and always keeping track of the item drop order while watching the background for bombable stuff leads to a game where there's always tons of stuff going on.

Made it to stage 5 for the first time, but my scoring is still total shit (about 3.6 million). I really need to figure out a way to get the extend in stage 3; I have a problem with keeping the tank alive through the bombers, but not managing to kill it in time once it's on the square.

[Erppo]

What people here seem to fail to understand is that the stage design only starts to matter when you actually play the game like you're meant to. Applies to both "lol Cave/Touhou sux". If you ignore the mechanics, of course stuff will not matter much. If you don't want to go through all the trouble yourself you can just do as Hagane says and watch someone who knows what he's doing.

Also if you take more than a minute at a Touhou attack, you really need to learn how to aim.

[mdl]

Went to Mikado today and 1cced Darius extra version. ABDGKPV. Not the hardest route. Now back to Tatsujin Ou.