PS4... the RPG

[BryanM]

I've been... watching a lot of Angry Videogame Nerd this week. Mostly to listen to the theme song ("He's going to take you back to the past, to play some shitty games that suck ass") and nostalgia over how awful everything was. Educational too. I never knew R.O.B. was this bad.

Anyway, a recurring theme is how suicidal SEGA was with its business decisions back then. When he stacks DOUBLE 32X's, it made me pee myself. Then he shows the Voltron unit completely put together, with its three power supplies and a bunch of extra wires everywhere, and declares "This thing looks like it's on life support... because it is."

It isn't a bad system at all, even its limitations compared to the SNES have appeal. The limited number of colors at a time gave the system a gritty rustic feel, the sound system was awesome at rock and metal.

Really, they should have made the Neptune as a stand alone, and made it an upgrade to the genesis like the gameboy color was an upgrade to the gameboy. Make the thing the best, affordable 2D system on the market comparable to the Neo Geo with a large install base of games; they might have gotten a few years out of that product. But they decided FMV and Starfox quality 3D was the wave of the future.

So we got Night Trap and Shining Force CD instead. All while hanging themselves with the Saturn.

If they could have gotten Squaresoft or Enix to support them, who knows where they'd be today. Oh who am I kidding. They'd still be face down in a ditch, in a pool of their regurgitated sake.

1st-person perspective dungeons.

Probably was never going to happen. Believe The Guy said they were "monotonous".

A lot like that real-time Dragon Quest 9 prototype.

off topic playstation talk

While aesthetically pleasing, I always hated how the labels for the buttons take multiple syllables to pronounce. Especially that they made a button (cross) that almost resembles an X. As I use the infinitely better SNES names for this button layout, it always confused people when I told them to press the A or B or X button.

Circle? That shit will never be circle to me.

[Ed Oscuro]

If Bernie Stolar is correct, there was some shenanigans about the "Neptune," a single console version of the 32x and Genesis (and Saturn?), versus the 32x as a stand-alone unit - I forget which side championed what, but both sides of Sega had competing angles into this market.

Sega wasn't alone in jumping onto the FMV craze. There's The 7th Guest; 3DO FMV games; the CD-i has a fair number of unique FMV titles (some rather interesting which I ought to check out again); Jaguar CD; Sega CD even; PlayStation and Saturn have a few; and plenty of PC and other computer FMV games like Rocket Science's incredibly bad The Legend of Tully Bodine (which is easily playable in DOSbox, all these years later, with a minimum of fiddling).

The button layout symbols were a brilliant touch on the part of Sony, who had at one swipe made the system transcend cultures and languages, and locked in developers just that little bit more as the button images and explanations wouldn't translate to other systems. Microsoft seems to have wanted to sit halfway, with letter-labeled and color-coded buttons, and Nintendo as well.

[trap15]

PC-FX is almost entirely FMV games, and that's why it's so great

[EmperorIng]

PC-FX is almost entirely FMV games, and that's why it's so great

Case in point: retsupurae's highly entertaining and hilarious It Came From the Desert commentary.

Oh shoot, I thought you meant Turbo-GFX.

Still it's great.
At 20:00ish
THE ANTMIND... HAS TAKEN HUMAN PRISONERS... AND IS USING THEM AS LIVING PROJECTORS TO CREATE HIS ARMY.... OF ANDROID ZOMBIES!
^none of this ever comes into play^

FMV needs to be a thing again, ha.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I still hate the analog buttons on the PS2/3 controller, mainly because it kills the d-pad sensitivity.

But, the triggers? The only game where I ever felt these are not exactly digital was Onimusha 3. At the end of the day I just like using DS2's triggers and wish there was at least one Wii game making me feel this way about CCP. Such as F-Zero or 2D Metroid sequel.
Here's hoping that Wii will enjoy some kind of afterlife thanks to homebrew and hacks (or even legit third party support).

One pretty thing that came out of the FMV craze/dementia was Slipheed. If it was any better as a game, who knows how video games would look today. I wonder why Sony didn't make a non-sucking, drop-dead gorgeous FMV game for the PS3.

[Jeneki]

One pretty thing that came out of the FMV craze/dementia was Slipheed. If it was any better as a game, who knows how video games would look today. I wonder why Sony didn't make a non-sucking, drop-dead gorgeous FMV game for the PS3.

I remember there being a Silpheed-style FMV background shmup on the PS1. Philosoma I think?

[Strider77]

Philosoma had alot of FVM that lead into the game graphics. The actual game graphics were real time.. but the CG lead into and "synced" into the stages. Dunno how to word it... an effort was made to edit the FMV to lead into the stage itself... smooth transition.

Not unless you are meaning Novastorm.

------

I wish a PS did come out on the Mega CD... that would have a ton of potential.

[null1024]

I still hate the analog buttons on the PS2/3 controller, mainly because it kills the d-pad sensitivity.

But, the triggers? The only game where I ever felt these are not exactly digital was Onimusha 3. At the end of the day I just like using DS2's triggers and wish there was at least one Wii game making me feel this way about CCP. Such as F-Zero or 2D Metroid sequel.
Here's hoping that Wii will enjoy some kind of afterlife thanks to homebrew and hacks (or even legit third party support).

One pretty thing that came out of the FMV craze/dementia was Slipheed. If it was any better as a game, who knows how video games would look today. I wonder why Sony didn't make a non-sucking, drop-dead gorgeous FMV game for the PS3.

Silpheed is the best use of FMV I have seen. Probably the only during-gameplay use of FMV I can say was a legitimately good idea.
It could be a better game, but on a technical level, it really almost looked like the Sega CD was doing all that in real time. Very slick, and fairly fun.

[Obiwanshinobi]

There's no denying that Silpheed is cinematic to the full extent of the jam. Among shmups, maybe, just maybe Radiant Silvergun and RayForce came close but that's about it. Other shmups had their moments at best. I'm still unsure as to what exactly Treasure did to make RS look this "deep". Some crafty marriage of Saturn 2D transparencies and Mode 7+ of sorts?

Continuing the Sony triggers digression, the more I play Burnonut 2 on my PS2, the more I feel that playing it with a DS2 is the way to go after all. While the first Burnout didn't make me like 'Cube pad triggers any better, it was hardly an issue in that game. With 2, on the other hand, I don't wish I had the 'Cube version anymore.
Still have yet to find a joypad where mashing on any button would be nearly as enjoyable as mashing on R2... and Sony had to replace it with... you know.

[GaijinPunch]

Silpheed is the best use of FMV I have seen. .

As a weird one, Grandia II had some FMV sequences prerendered for battles. It was seamlessly overlayed on the last boss I believe... or one of them. I thought it was well done. How the hell do I remember that?

[Obiwanshinobi]

Doesn't SoulCalibur (the DC port) have FMVs for backgrounds?
The aforementioned Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song has very... peculiar graphics alright. Some FMV seem involved at that.

[null1024]

There's no denying that Silpheed is cinematic to the full extent of the jam. Among shmups, maybe, just maybe Radiant Silvergun and RayForce came close but that's about it. Other shmups had their moments at best. I'm still unsure as to what exactly Treasure did to make RS look this "deep". Some crafty marriage of Saturn 2D transparencies and Mode 7+ of sorts?

RSG uses the hell out of the Saturn's "Mode 7"-like features [for things like infinite, rotating playfields -- something that the PS1 would have to use lots of polygons to do, and would have distortion when near], and that saves a lot of polygons for actual 3D stuff. Then, there's the very nice 2D parallax it has, and most importantly, loads of really clever texturing. Since you never see the game from any strange angles, even though the details are just painted on a flat or low-poly quad, it's still able to look very detailed, almost like there's more geometry than is there. Having fixed camera movement each time really helps when making a game look flat-out amazing, because you can optimize certain scenes rather easily, and use those gains to make it look better.

Doesn't SoulCalibur (the DC port) have FMVs for backgrounds?

SoulCalibur DC has full real-time 3D backgrounds.

[shmuppyLove]

Doesn't SoulCalibur (the DC port) have FMVs for backgrounds?

I was just recently playing this on Demul, so I can indeed answer your question --

Soul Calibur does not use FMV for the backgrounds, everything is rendered in 3D in real-time. There might be a stage or two with some video textures I think, maybe for water or fire effects, but that's about it.

[Ganelon]

He's probably thinking of the arcade version of Soulcalibur, which does use prerendered 3D backgrounds. The DC port was the first Namco fighter to use realtime 3D.

As for real FMV games, especially those with live footage, I'm sad that the genre will never come back. Its heyday was a time of optimism over the limitless explorability of a video game world. But here we are 20 years later with little improvement on that front.

And regarding PC-FX, I'm a huge fan of the potential in that system. The execution of its games leaves a lot to be desired but as I've mentioned before, I do wonder about a world where Sony didn't decide to go into the video game market, thus ensuring 1 more 2D generation with the original spec Sega Saturn and PC-FX.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Er, computers already brought Doom, Elite and whatnot to the table. Heck, wasn't a Japanese X68k game the first ever polygonal, substantially three-dimensional FPS (or does Elite take the cake)? If anything, Sony just forced the consoles to catch up with coin-op systems and computers. I think 1vs1 fighters and car games fans should be glad it did. Remember Virtua Fighter for the Genny?
Geograph Seal was that Japanese FPS called. Played it emulated some time ago and it was... not too bad I guess. Not as good as my memories of Spectre Supreme, but that's "true" 3D vs 2D gameplay with 3D graphics for ya, back in early nineteen-nineties.

[shmuppyLove]

As for real FMV games, especially those with live footage, I'm sad that the genre will never come back. Its heyday was a time of optimism over the limitless explorability of a video game world. But here we are 20 years later with little improvement on that front.

Ah, Rebel Assault.

http://youtu.be/359qyiXskCE

An unholy mish-mash of CG, (horribly blocky) film and traditional 2D animation.

I'll take the later full 3D stuff like Rogue Squadron over this any day.

[null1024]

Er, computers already brought Doom, Elite and whatnot to the table. Heck, wasn't a Japanese X68k game the first ever polygonal, substantially three-dimensional FPS (or does Elite take the cake)? If anything, Sony just forced the consoles to catch up with coin-op systems and computers. I think 1vs1 fighters and car games fans should be glad it did. Remember Virtua Fighter for the Genny?
Geograph Seal was that Japanese FPS called. Played it emulated some time ago and it was... not too bad I guess. Not as good as my memories of Spectre Supreme, but that's "true" 3D vs 2D gameplay with 3D graphics for ya, back in early nineteen-nineties.

Geograph Seal was from 94. It's the earliest 3D platformer I can think of, and is a direct ancestor to Jumping Flash. Would have been pretty neat to see a port of that to the PS1, even if Jumping Flash is pretty much the same game. Elite does take the cake for being one of the earliest polygonal [which excludes raycasters and sprite scaling] first-person games, it's from well before.

As for real FMV games, especially those with live footage, I'm sad that the genre will never come back. Its heyday was a time of optimism over the limitless explorability of a video game world. But here we are 20 years later with little improvement on that front.

I do wonder about a world where Sony didn't decide to go into the video game market, thus ensuring 1 more 2D generation with the original spec Sega Saturn and PC-FX.

Yeah, FMV done well is interesting and neat. I'm not sad it won't come back [realtime is the best time ], but it let you channel visuals that would be impossible otherwise on a system [You want photorealistic? Here's actual video! Or hell, Silpheed's amazing background. Or that Dracula game for the Sega CD [which isn't good, but it is visually impressive, with graphics that wouldn't be matched in realtime for many years]]. I don't like any of those "press a button at x time to do y action or die with video clip z" games, except for maybe Road Avenger, which has such a great sense of action and fun to it.


Saturn would still have been a 3D system without the PS1. Sega was pushing 3D on the arcade front since they started making arcade boards optimized for lots of stacked scaling sprites. Being able to bring some of that home properly was necessary [Sega had learned well enough after trying to bring their scaling-based games to the Genesis].
It might have been closer to the Model 1, but weaker [rather than the design the Saturn had], but it would have been 3D.
The 3DO already existed at the time with quite a few proper 3D games, and if it wasn't retarded expensive [you aren't SNK!], it would have probably been successful and well remembered. The market for 3D gaming was there, but not at that price point.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Well, I still miss Alone in the Dark-style engines, where backdrops were practically FMVs when animation needed. PS3 (Blu-ray and all) seemed bespoken for this kind of visuals, but alas...

[BulletMagnet]

Pardon the bump, but in case anyone has access to the Japanese PS Store (and can read Japanese), the Phantasy Star Complete Collection is up there for 800 yen.

[Ganelon]

I'm a big fan of Siliconera but was really disappointed in that article. You only need to know enough Japanese to buy the game; the games themselves can be set to English (except the JP-only interactive graphic novels, which have never been localized or even ported before). Plus, the games here are much more accurate, both in visuals (240p for the win) and in sound, to the original MD versions than the versions in Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection. And that's not even counting the extras PSCC offers that I mentioned earlier in this topic. Sonic's UGC is great for a smorgasbord of top MD games but the Phantasy Star Complete Collection is *the* collection to get if you want to play Phantasy Star games how they were meant to be played, short of buying the originals.

[GaijinPunch]

Might want to put a disclaimer in there. Sounds like you're saying the PSN version can be set to 240p.

[Ganelon]

Good point, GP. I wonder how the PS3 handles that feature...

[GaijinPunch]

Good point, GP. I wonder how the PS3 handles that feature...

Only cost you 800 points to find out! I might bust out my PS collection in dumb mode and see if I can't blow through it in < 10 hours. I played the original dozens of times as a kid, but I think only once as an adult. The trick would be to see if I could do the mazes by heart.