Some pornography for fudoh and fagin...

[Pyongyang]

The burning question? Does the incredibly rare DVDO ABT-102 deinterlacing card work on the rebadged Vehda Isis SU 20 aka the legendary rebadged DVDO VP20?

Why is it a precedent? Because very little information about the Vehda exists. No records of the ABT-102 installed and working in the SU20 have been discovered (as far as I'm aware and I've been searching for information for nearly a year now). Even DVDO themselves couldn't give me a definite answer. I spoke on the phone to the actual guy who wrote the firmware for the SU20 and even he couldn't say 100% for certain.

So. Does it work? At least now you will know. Watch the video I made tonight to find out...

http://youtu.be/wedviuSl3Q0

NOTE: A HUGE MASSIVE ENORMOUS THANK YOU TO Tobias aka fudoh, Shaun aka faginrs500 and Dane aka audiodane for their help with this. Thank you for letting me wreck your bulbs with my constant questions!

NOTE: The video is blocked in Germany (sorry fudoh, use a proxy!) because of music I used in the video.

[audiodane]

Fantastic video! You just doubled the future asking price for the already-rare ABT102 cards out there (and Isis SU 20)!

cheers,
..dane

[fagin]

Now the question is (game mode wise):

Do you want pretty and slow deinterlacing

or

Not so pretty but hardly any lag





Well done on your antics..... you're getting nearly as bad as me and some of us other nerds on here!

[Pyongyang]

No fagin, noone could be as bad as you and fudoh!

I love Game Mode 2, it's so much better than Mode 1. And get this, this will pull your trolleys down, roger your buttocks and tickle your lungs.........................

THE AUDIO ISSUE IS GONE.

That's right. No more dodgy audio. It works first time every time now. The VP20 and the HD PVR 2 are absolutely rogering the crap out of each other this evening. Standby to see why, I'm uploading another video (that may/will be blocked in certain countries due to the music used, but I don't mind as it's an appropriate song!).

Seriously, I'm loving this ABT-102, the difference is point blank staring you in the face slap you on the buttocks and call you Susan unbelievable!

Just...wow really. Seriously.

You three are a bad influence!!

[fagin]

Great news.

I told you it was worth getting (the ABT card that is).

[Pyongyang]

Absolutely it is. The difference is immediate and jaw-dropping. Especially the lag reduction. it's just unreal.

...and the really complicated stuff it handles with ease.

My video will be live shortly. Hang you on a mo chief.

[Pyongyang]

...and here it is.

http://youtu.be/s_w9L5yNv-0

[Fudoh]

nice! Glad you're happy with the setup!

In some scenes of the video you can see where the GM2 setting fails to detect 30Hz flicker effects (first up the golden Darius boss). If you switch to GM1 here, the striping's gone.

What about a 480i showcase as well ? Virtua Racing was already looking fantastic here. Take some more footage of this one and add some real 480i titles.

[fagin]

He beat me to it... I was about to say you have some heavy deinterlacing artifacts on that video, as Fudoh points out. Quite bad combing effects. Your heavy compression isn't helping the quality either, but we certainly get a general idea.

Sort your compression out and switch the game mode and as Fudoh says, lets see some more 480i shizzle as that's what your ABT card is really all about.

[Pyongyang]

Ah gents! I knew the expert eyes would push me off this summit of glorious ABT-ness!

I was using Game Mode 2, do you think Game Mode 1 would be better for capturing? You can certainly see the card at work on Golden Ogre and the Metal Black boss. I just upscaled to 720p to make it look nice and cheeky. I'll definitely do some 480 stuff though and upload it.

It's a shame the YouTube re-encode smears it up a little too, but the raw files look a lot nicer.

Thanks for bringing me back down to Earth....gits!

[Pyongyang]

If you switch to GM1 here, the striping's gone.

Aha! That I will do sir. I'll capture the same footage of the Darius boss and do a comparison. Plus I will grab some 480i stuff and see how it fares.

Overall though I'm delighted with the results, but more delighted with the fact the ABT-102 works in the SU20!

[Pyongyang]

OK, a new day and some more tests! All footage is raw and unedited straight from the SU20/HDPVR2 and uploaded to YouTube.

First up, testing the two game modes on the ABT-102. Two runs, all the information is on screen. This is captured at 480p too.

http://youtu.be/berR_lW4E1s

Next, Game Mode 1 at 480p from a 480i source captured at 480p and rendered to 640x480. This is testing Game Mode 1 and a game running in Yoko mode, but also with notorious problems it causes video processors. This, is ESPGaluda on the PlayStation 2.

http://youtu.be/qL5R1QL1X6s

[fagin]

Looks OK mate.

Let's compare against a £100 all in Startech capture card for some "discussion".

I'll be back.

[Fudoh]

I don't see any reason why you should capture 480p instead of 720p. If you want to use scanlines for playing you can set the processor to 480p (not 640x480). You should also not output in YCbCr444. The HDPVR2 is downsampling anyway, so either use YCbCr422 or use RGB (as long as both the HDPVR and the HDMI to VGA converter you use for playing are compatible with that).

[Pyongyang]

I was just testing really to see what would happen if I just leave the source as is and don't upscale it. It still looks really good I think.

I'm worried now though what Mr. fagin is going to hit back with in the capture battle that seems to have developed! I like the 720p upscaling too, it looks so much nicer. I am not a fan of Game Mode 1 for playing on my DELL CRT though, I prefer Game Mode 2 for that. For capturing though, Game Mode 1 all the way.

What do you guys think of the ESPGaluda samples? I'm interested in some expert opinions on this!

[Fudoh]

What comment are you looking for on the ESPGaluda videos ? Look as expected I guess. The 2nd video has quite some studder at some points. Maybe an issue when Youtube downconverts the framerate ?

GM1 gets quite useable once you use it with a SLG3000.

How would *you* rate the 240p handling without the ABT compared to GM1/2 with the ABT102 ? Raw quality should be ranking in between the other two, but I think the SiI504 handles the flickering better than the ABT in GM2, right ?

[Pyongyang]

Well, I thought ESPGaluda was a difficult title to deinterlace because of some of the effects it uses? I think with Game Mode 1 it looks fantastic, and I can totally see where you are coming from when you say the SLG will aid it. I prefer Game Mode 2 though if I am not using the HD PVR2. It looks a lot sharper and more settled, but the deinterlacing, as you both said, is a little on the drastic side.

The 240p handling is unreal. A good example is Panzer Dragoon Zwei. It just looked so crisp and smooth. PS1 titles look great too played on both a PS1 and a PS2. Without the ABT it was still great, but it definitely felt like there was more lag. I didn't see it at first, and I hope it's not a placebo, but it definitely feels like the lag is virtually non-existant.

[Pyongyang]

Here's another oddity about the ABT-102 addition and how it's changed my setup.

I added the SLG3000 in for the first time tonight since I first tried it building my setup some months ago. It now works. Before it didn't. So that's the audio and SLG fixed by adding the SLG3000. That's super odd.

I have to agree fudoh, on my DELL CRT, with the SLG3000 added and running in Game Mode 1, it's just unbelievable. It's utterly jawdropping without the SLG, and fagin knows this because he has a similar setup with his DELL monitor which is what spurred me on to pick one up during the Summer!

But adding the SLG and twisting the dial to give just that suttle little hint of scanline goodness really does bring the picture out to a whole new level.

Mind = blown.

[fagin]

Yes. My DVDO EDGE with a PC CRT is very nice.

The CRT hides ringing normally seen and the "look" is obviously more akin to a CRT..... because it is one!


Talking about capturing though. My recent video camera capture off my PVM is mint and for retro capture is exactly where I wanted to be for YT videos - authentic and as clear as f**k. Well, that's until I pick my BVM up tomorrow night!

[Fudoh]

Well, I thought ESPGaluda was a difficult title to deinterlace because of some of the effects it uses?

all the enemy ships in Galuda use a 30Hz flicker effect on their shadows on the grounds. This makes Galuda an easy benchmark, since you don't have to play very long to see if a deinterlacer can manage this or not.

I agree that GM2 is great in terms on sharpness, but it fails at the flicker effects and this is something I'm very allergic to. On 480i GM2 is fantastic, but on 240p I prefer GM1 *AS SOON* as scanlines are added to mask the heavy interpolation.

I give little reference to it, but the VP50Pro is still my main processor in my setup. It's 240p is basically identical to the Edge, just with the added possibility of adjusting detail und edge enhancement even in Gamemode. Compared to the ABT102 the Edge and 50Pro detect 240p as a progressive signal and don't offer deinterlacing options for it at all, so there are no problems with the flicker effects. Unfortunately the upscaling is worse than on the ABT due to the added ringing. On 480i your ABT, Fagin's Edge and my 50Pro are identical (in terms of deinterlacing).

The 240p handling is unreal.

you know that I rank the ABT102 "only" in 4th place for 240p handling. There's always room for improvement, if you don't mind another upgrade - maybe next year

[fagin]

Tobias,
Don't burst his bubble.... he has just spent the next 6 months rent on that ABT card!!!!

Ian,
Don't listen to him... he don't know shit!

[Pyongyang]

Well, that's until I pick my BVM up tomorrow night!

NICE! Which model did you go for? I had a PVM in the past, that I had to send back thanks to your eagle eye Mr. fagin! Not really considered a BVM, it's hard enough to find a CRT in Ireland for a decent price let alone anything else. Keen to see what you got though and how you integrate it with your setup!

I tried using my LCD monitor with my current setup by the way and didn't notice any ringing. From what I read from Mr. Fude's hallowed bible the Edge has the ringing issues?

Regarding the VP20/30/SU20 though, I'm 99.9% sure now that you want the following setups:

1. Game Mode 1 with SLG3000 for just playing games.

2. Game Mode 2 for capturing. However it does deinterlace much more harsher than mode.

@Mr. Fude's: So the Framemeister is a lot better than the ABT102 for 240p handling? I think I'm actually at the point now where if I went higher up the food chain, I don't think I would notice. How about the ABT102 as an all-rounder though? 240p, 480p, 480i etc?

@Shaunography: It was actually a cheeky price thanks to audiodane! It might not be in future though seeing as everyone and their uncle will (maybe) want one who bought an SU20 now the ABT102 is proven to work with it! That said, I feel really happy with the setup now, it's definitely working for me. Like Mr. Fude's more or less said, the ESPGaluda video is a great test of the ABT102's ability.

You two are just a bad influence with all these scalers and whatnots!

p.s: To it's credit by the way, the Hauppauge HD PVR2 is bloody brilliant considering what it does, how it handles it and it's relatively inexpensive cost.

[fagin]

Get a XRGB or mini for 240p material!! It will blow what's left of your brains, straight out of your ears!




Just think about the scalers though mate..... I don't use them anymore and use 100% CRT. You can't beat the real thing. Ask your Mrs!

[Fudoh]

@Mr. Fude's: So the Framemeister is a lot better than the ABT102 for 240p handling?

considerably. The Framemeister looks 100% like an emulator. No quirks whatsoever. Absolute perfection.

How about the ABT102 as an all-rounder though? 240p, 480p, 480i etc?

Really, really great for 480i. For 480p you actually don't use the any functions of the ABT102. 480p on the DVDOs in general is ok, but the scaling engine on all the DVDO machines has a dirty look to it. Other machines are much cleaner. But it's not bad by any means, so don't worry. For 240p I rate it well WITH a SLG3000, but without it, I'm not the biggest fan.

But one major argument for your VP20 setup: other processors like the Framemeister (and many others) can't be used as a capture interface on the HDPVR because they can't unlock the output refresh rate. That's a must with most capture devices, BMD as well.

[Pyongyang]

You can't beat the real thing. Ask your Mrs!

It's true about the CRT thing, very true. In fairness though, my setup solely exists for capturing (and fiddling) footage. This is not just for video games but also for my Laserdisc and VHS collections. That's why I was delighted the SU20 and ABT-102 work together so well along with the HDPVR2.

Basically my thought process is, chuck everything through the processor, make it look nice and shiny. Capture it, archive it. Job done.

That's my collection safely backed up, and on top of that I can make some nice archive footage for YouTube, Vimeo and my blog etc. The bad side is, video processors, scalers, deinterlacers and what have you's are a horribly addictive business! You finish one setup, then someone tells you about something better. Repeat as necessary! Argggghh!!

@Mr. Fude's: I like your last point about the frame rate unlock on my SU20/VP20. That makes me feel a bit better!

[fagin]

I'm pulling your leg Ian (about the scalers... not your Mrs!).

I've resisted the XRGB Mini (that won't last long though). You're right though. Just be happy that your set-up is actually good now and leave it at that. Only the anal take it to the next level and that just isn't the real world. Most "normal" people are happy with a £20 GBS scaler, whether Tobias can't sleep at night or not!

[Pyongyang]

Hahaha! Nicely put!

I have the GBS but I feel I've outgrown it for what I want from a video processor. The only real thing I'd use it for now is the VGA out but I have a HDMI > VGA converter (which oddly likes the SLG3000 now) and soon an HD Fury (to see if I can get rid of that damn tinting on my DELL. It doesn't tint if you hook it directly).

You're right though, I don't think I could dip my toe in to the luxury waters of some of the more 'wild' scalers/processors'. Next you'll be telling me to buy Chord Company interconnects and TAG McLaren speakers! Yeah right!

No, I'm happy out with my lot. The ABT-102 is a beautiful, beautiful thing*.

*even if that means Tobias can't sleep at night either.

[Fudoh]

Do you have any live concerts on LD ? You must give them a try. Awesome picture which can sometimes rival modern 720p material.

[Fudoh]

No, I'm happy out with my lot. The ABT-102 is a beautiful, beautiful thing

It's actually probably the very best 480i deinterlacer out there - system-wide. If it wasn't paired with DVDO's scaling engine, but, let's say, with a Gennum scaling engine, it would be right out the perfect processor.

[Pyongyang]

Stop teasing us Mr. Fude's!

I have a couple of concerts on Laserdisc. My CLD-1750 back panel looks like this:



Unfortunately that means no S-Video or RGB SCART, then again are there any Laserdisc players that output RGB Scart? I do like the optical out though, I will try to use that in my capturing process rather than analog audio.

Back on the ABT-102 though, I think the 480i deinterlacing on ESPGaluda looks incredible. Using that game as a benchmark I believe I noticed a definite difference between GM1 and GM2.

I suppose next on the list is some sort of space age audio setup! Interconnects made of gold studded with sapphires and diamonds. A turntable made of marble and gold. All connected together with the most expensive cables available! You think Monster cables are expensive? Try some wonderful cables by Chord Company!

Or how about the Kimber Select KS-6068? A handsome 3.5m speaker cable that weighs in at a plump, handsome, but not overly cheeky £21,387.57 / €26,450 / US$34,235 (or roughly over £5000 / €6200 / US$8000 per metre).