Black Sheep of Game Series

[Marble]

I hope I'm missing any sarcasm here. The game wasn't even supposed to be a side story originally. It was simply titled "2010" in Japan (I think), and the only connections to the SF series was the character's name, being made by Capcom, and them pasting the name on the US version.

No, it had the 'Street Fighter' title in Japan. The main character's name is what changed in the western release, in the original he was not named Ken.

[moozooh]

Let's see...

Doom III, absolutely. Not that I'm a big fan of the series, but at least I have played through the early games. This one I deleted after the first hour and never looked back. Let's just pretend it never existed.

Quake 4 was a one-off experience which felt like a shame after the amazing Q1 and Q3 and the decent Q2. The multiplayer in it was hardly anything but a graphics upgrade of Q3 Arena with a physics engine a bit less prone to abuse. Why bother when you have Quake 3 (Arena)?

Duke Nukem Forever I didn't even bother pirating. The early 2D games were cool; the 3D one I'd played through but never was a big fan of.

Worms 3D. Anybody who has played it as well as the prior games should instantly know why. The spin-offs are bad, too, but they're too obscure and stupid to even bother with. The series peaked at Armageddon, and to my knowledge, most everything released after WWP was rather so-so at best. I haven't played the most recent Windows games of the series, but they seem to have put it back on track!

Likewise, Earthworm Jim 3D. Not sure if there was anything afterwards, but I'd guess there was nothing worth noting if I hadn't heard of it yet.

Castlevania II, definitely... Excruciatingly boring and horribly done, but it paved the way for the much better SotN and its descendants which continued walking down the exploration-based gameplay road.

That overhead Contra game (I think it was on the PS1?). Felt very weird and uncontraish, was a sharp contrast to the generation the series peaked at. Most of what came afterwards was decent though, as far as I remember.

Heroes of Might & Magic went downhill after HoMM III and its expansions. IV was rather unapologetic about lifting gameplay ideas from Magic the Gathering and Disciples; unfortunately, the execution ranged from bad to horrible all around, which didn't help its case. Those leprechauns' movements will haunt me for eternity. HoMM V and further Ubisoft-plagued additions to the series felt too weird to bother with, and it didn't help that the core of the lore and gameplay formula of the fifth game was oursourced to a Russian developer known for making particularly unoriginal series of games. I lost interest in the series enough to not know until today that there was a HoMM VI (apparently called "Might & Magic Heroes VI", not kidding!).

Metroid... don't get me started on this high-budget downhill racing. It's almost like at some point the games in the series have started competing for the black sheep status. It started with Fusion being put on a rails—the first in the series to explicitly disallow any kind of sequence breaking (and the first to feature decent programming and testing to ensure that part, too) and completely and utterly intent on holding a player's hand throughout, completely disregarding the principles and merits established by earlier titles and revered by the fanbase, not the least of all showing respect to non-beginners. Zero Mission delievered somewhat of an excuse for Fusion's unexpected deviation, and it was good for what it was, but everything afterwards jumped the shark for good; the further it went, the less the games resembled anything Metroid. Echoes was a fairly linear implementation of the polarity idea (floating around for over a decade by that point and exploited in many popular games) filled with what was essentially a bunch of mundane fetch quests, completely unmetroidy bottomless pits and whatnot; already enough to qualify for a black sheep, but unfortunately it didn't stop there. (Gotta commend the graphics, though, probably the best technical achievement on the GC.) Hunters was a multiplayer FPS game with no exploration to speak of; less of a Metroid than Cave Story. MP Pinball... well, that's a black sheep if I've ever seen one. Corruption is a Halo game with merely a vague semblance to Metroid. Other M I just don't know why it even exists and is titled that way.

At this point I'm patiently waiting for Nintendo to stop fucking around with one of its best series, whose fanbase it has succeeded in alienating a good part of. It's been over eight years since the last good game, eighteen since the last great one. Insulting to know other Nintendo franchises are not exactly in such a sorry shape. Unfortunately, the sheer popularity of the franchise and the platforms it is distributed on gives just enough sales in absolute numbers to give Nintendo & Co the illusion of everything being fine with it.

[1KMS]

Other M I just don't know why it even exists and is titled that way.

Move the M to the front and you get Mother. Mothers and babies, get it?. Some Japanese dude thought this was clever.

[null1024]

Mega Man X6: God it stinks.

I'd say there's a full-on flock of black sheep in that series. I never even got to X6... by X4 I was tired of the MMX formula. The first one was good enough as it goes, but I don't like how they diluted and slowed down the platforming of classic MM with item collection and "secrets." Shit stage design too, like Compile on opiates. X2 and X3 were the limit of my tolerance.

Yeah, but X4 was a damn fine game, much better than X2, X3, X5, hell all of them except the first [actually, I personally like X4 more than X1, but that's almost certainly just me].

[njiska]

Yeah, but X4 was a damn fine game, much better than X2, X3, X5, hell all of them except the first [actually, I personally like X4 more than X1, but that's almost certainly just me].

No it's not just you. I've also come to realize that I like X4 more than X. Most likely due to Zero.

[Despatche]

it's like some crazy made this thread just for me

Really, "black sheep" is incredibly hard to define. Then again, we're singling out direct ports for some reason.

yay i get to ignore obiwan's posts (and yes, you can be "right or wrong" about opinions)

Shadow the Hedgehog is easily comparable to Sonic Adventure. If you want a Sonic black sheep, try Sonic Chronicles.

Swap Tenkaichi for Musouden or even Kourin, and 2003 for 2001 (THIS) or Neowave. Isuka is too easy. Gradius III doesn't belong anywhere in this thread; you'd be better off with IV or even V, honestly. Napishtim sure as hell doesn't go in here, you want V.

Some good choices, but I think if anything is the black sheep of the Guilty Gear franchise it's the abominable Dust Strikers on the NDS. Which I still have sitting on my shelf reminding me of my bad decision making.

Directly based on Isuka. Though I think it'd be fair to call Isuka a spinoff... see second sentence.

Guilty Gear 2: Overture. So the successor to a 2D fighting game franchise is a 3D RTS / Beat'em-up hybrid? Oookay.

"Successor", hahaha. Guilty Gear is a rare example of someone actually taking the word "sequel" seriously.

Unreal Tournament 2003 makes no sense in this thread, I think you meant III. FFXIII doesn't really go in this thread, you want VIII, X-2, XI/XIV, XII, etc. Doesn't seem fair to put NRIII (bleh why not) in here. Virtua Fighter 3 totally doesn't go in here. Toss Ultima VIII in here.

Street Fighter EX definitely doesn't go in here, it'd go against the whole purpose of the Street Fighter layout. Go with EX3.

On that note, I recommend SvC Chaos and Capcom Fighting Jam for the thread.

I really need to play Thunder Force VI. I can't trust people about that game, I know the truth of TF. Broken Thunder is a crappy fangame and doesn't go anywhere near this thread.

I honestly don't think it's fair to put all those earlier Castlevania games in here, Legends might be better. Contra III is only SGB, not GBC; means a lot.

Swap HoD for CotM. Halo 3: ODST is very unfair.

yeah i'm ignoring your post too you clown

oh FUCK no evermore has WAY more to do with mana AND is a better game than broken thunder... which is why evermore is good for this list

No, Zero Mission has very little to do with Fusion. Same engine, very different game.

iD...

boooOOoOooooOoOooOooOoo

also "quake" is a brand

BIL is absolutely right. Unbounded isn't a Ridge Racer game, it's a Burnout game; compare correctly.

rastan vs barbarian? ok kai's definitely trolling

Yeah, Strider II is basically why BIL's right. The FC Strider wouldn't work either, for a variety of reasons. I think it'd be better to toss Strider/2, Cannon-Dancer, and Moon Diver into the same group.

Once again, defining "black sheep" sucks.

no, other m is a bad and terrible game and is not underrated in the slightest. the engine is quite interesting, however. let me know when you get around to mp3

hmm this post implies zelda ii is bad... oh, do i ever have a problem with that judgement. and no the bullshit about "it was INTENDED to be mario" doesn't work. never mind that the game can't even be called a black sheep by the "public opinion" argument.

kof96? "contrived"? i give up

yeah... no "waaah the original game hasn't aged well" bullshit, please. compare sf1 to kc or ff1 or aof1 or whatever the fuck. and violent storm has nothing to do with crime fighters... oh god more fucking ports

no ff1 is not very different from sf1 and it has nothing to do with sfii lol jesus christ

now street fighter the movie (console version), there's a great pick. and yeah, ww and vanilla super.

see? ufo gets it, even if ms4 and kof2001 are basically outsourced. i think ms5 might be better for this technically. owait mmx6 is better than x5 sry. anyway x7

HEY! I will not tolerate such kind language used in reference to Mega Man X6 in my own thread. Only the greatest level of hatred and disgust is acceptable for that unbelievably repulsive piece of fucking garbage... that i beat three times...

...because hey, it's actually kinda fun. i mean, you could be playing x5 or x7.

yeah no not fucking street fighter 2010 get that outta here

okay kai we get it you're trolling hahaha

this thread is good because i am in a good mood

oh never mind blackoak's post holy shit ok kai you're fine

Mega Man X6: God it stinks.

I'd say there's a full-on flock of black sheep in that series. I never even got to X6... by X4 I was tired of the MMX formula. The first one was good enough as it goes, but I don't like how they diluted and slowed down the platforming of classic MM with item collection and "secrets." Shit stage design too, like Compile on opiates. X2 and X3 were the limit of my tolerance.

This is the craziest thing I have ever read. MMX is an entirely different series. Entirely. There was nothing slowed down, it was actually sped up like crazy. Item collection means nothing, that is a separate part of the game and it is there to give you options. Compile on opiates? Stop playing X3!

let's move on

It's called "2010: Street Fighter". Yes, the game is actually called just "2010" in some circles. That should say everything.

yeah holy shit why did it take so long for worms 3d

what the fuck? not one thing you said about echoes is true

...hm hey guys if we use "quake 4" can we use "doom 3" please? hate to be rude but it's just like the iD thing

whaaaat. x2 is amazing. it's the "bigger badder better!" game, other than music (and it still has some cool tunes). and yes, x4 is also amazing, but a different kind.

[njiska]

HEY! I will not tolerate such kind language used in reference to Mega Man X6 in my own thread. Only the greatest level of hatred and disgust is acceptable for that unbelievably repulsive piece of fucking garbage... that i beat three times...

...because hey, it's actually kinda fun. i mean, you could be playing x5 or x7.

I'll happily play X5 over X6. X7 is a bit harder to justify over X6. They're both horrible, but at least you expect X7, being a 3D game, to be awful. X6 is just inexcusable bad design around every corner and I truly have no fun playing it.

[null1024]

Yeah, but X4 was a damn fine game, much better than X2, X3, X5, hell all of them except the first [actually, I personally like X4 more than X1, but that's almost certainly just me].

No it's not just you. I've also come to realize that I like X4 more than X. Most likely due to Zero.

Yeah, it's been forever since I've played X4 as Megaman. Zero is just so badass and loads of fun to use.

[KAI]

Street Fighter - The Movie

Even with Cammy Minogue, it sucks.



Shaddup, Third Strike rulz.

[trap15]

but I don't like how they diluted and slowed down the platforming of classic MM with item collection and "secrets." Shit stage design too

THANK YOU. I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks this. Especially the last part. Ugh.

[Marble]

Really, "black sheep" is incredibly hard to define.

It shouldn't be. The idiom's meaning is basically "Something within a group that stands out from all the others." Though we seem to have a problem with this definition in the context of a game series, with some people pointing out games that are considerably different (I.e completely different genre) and others pointing out games just because they don't like them as much as other games in the series. I'm going with the former.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

lol, hipsters expecting us to believe that MMX games have bad level design and are somehow less platform oriented without bothering to giving us any reasoning.

...because hey, it's actually kinda fun. i mean, you could be playing x5 or x7.

+1

[blackoak]

Haha. I'm not "expecting you to believe" anything, just expressing my thoughts about most of the X series. Some reasons: way too much pointless backtracking, the item collection sets you into a slower "catch em all!" mindset, and a lot of the levels had long stretches of zero challenge. Weird that people are saying they aren't slower paced too... its one of the main things I notice.

But anyway, I really only consider the ones after X3 to be black sheep. Obviously I look for different things in MM generally. Loved 9 and 10.

[drauch]

Broken English hateful rant

Were you drunk for all of that? I really hope so.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Haha. I'm not "expecting you to believe" anything, just expressing my thoughts about most of the X series. Some reasons:

Item collection is (mostly) optional and skipping them all provides a good challenge. Dashing gives you great mobility without having to open a menu to fetch Rush or whoever and wall jumping opens up huge windows of opportunity for vertically oriented levels without having the need for ladders or stepping blocks all over the place. If MMX's levels are too slow paced for you then I can only imagine how much you hate the rest of the SNES action catalog because I don't think any games handled the slow processor better than the X series.

[trap15]

If MMX's levels are too slow paced for you then I can only imagine how much you hate the rest of the SNES action catalog because I don't think any games handled the slow processor better than the X series.

The SNES didn't have all that slow of a processor. It was a bit slower than the Genesis, but not by as huge of a margin as people would like to believe. As far as fast-paced SNES action games, I'd like to show you this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vte9sj4qP_k

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

That's not fast paced, that's just bloody chaotic. =(
But yes, point taken, I'll admit that was a gross exaggeration on my end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zKNAkk2SiQ

[Drum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSwZ1AWXh20

Pop'n Twinbee: Rainbow Bell Adventure is super fast too. Youtube cries.

[R-Gray 1]

in MMX series i could name a black ship only mmx7 ....but i don't think the game sucks. just i could say is the last of my taste...or maybe also axl scks xd
in SF series only sf the movie could be? )))
in Ray series could be Raycrisis
in MOrtal Kombat maybe MK4, but i heard about another mk games in ps2 thankfully i didn't play them
Ps1 contra? legacy of war i guess. I played just few minutes and i decided to not play it anymore
Donkey kong country 3 could be also, i enjoyed a lot DKC2, i really played a lot that game to find all the tokens and DK coins ...and then i saw dkc3 with that big bby monkeyn...hmm....

[Vexorg]

in MMX series i could name a black ship only mmx7 ....but i don't think the game sucks. just i could say is the last of my taste...or maybe also axl scks xd
in SF series only sf the movie could be? )))
in Ray series could be Raycrisis
in MOrtal Kombat maybe MK4, but i heard about another mk games in ps2 thankfully i didn't play them
Ps1 contra? legacy of war i guess. I played just few minutes and i decided to not play it anymore
Donkey kong country 3 could be also, i enjoyed a lot DKC2, i really played a lot that game to find all the tokens and DK coins ...and then i saw dkc3 with that big bby monkeyn...hmm....

For Mortal Kombat, what about Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe? I haven't played it, but the impressions I saw of it seemed to suggest it was a pretty watered-down effort from a Midway that was well into the process of circling the drain at the time.

[Hagane]

It's hard to pick a black sheep in Mortal Kombat since all of the games are awful.

[njiska]

For Mortal Kombat, what about Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe? I haven't played it, but the impressions I saw of it seemed to suggest it was a pretty watered-down effort from a Midway that was well into the process of circling the drain at the time.

How about every entry except these?
- MK
- MKII
- UMK3
- MK Trilogy
- MK:DA
- MK9

[KAI]

don't forget Tattoo Assassins, worst MK version.

Jokes aside, Radirgy noa.

[Marc]

Ridge Racer Unbounded is a good example, though its plain to see that it was never intended as a Ridge game, it was halfway through development when it got saddled with that.

And to the fuckwit above that compared it to Burnout... oh dear.

[R-Gray 1]

For Mortal Kombat, what about Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe? I haven't played it, but the impressions I saw of it seemed to suggest it was a pretty watered-down effort from a Midway that was well into the process of circling the drain at the time.

after Mk4 I didn´t play any Mk until Mk 9 , but yes mk vs dc universe has terrible comments and just thinking about how could be that game I did not even watch it on youtube!

Twisted metal brawl,
Tekken 4, I just play that game 1 hour in my life xd. I played it in a time that I didnt play too much so im not sure( thats the reason I didnt play other Mk games)
how some guys could call Re code veronice a black ship? maybe some miss leon or miss...............Re2.5=Re3nemesis? ----claire! <3

[blackoak]

Item collection is (mostly) optional and skipping them all provides a good challenge. Dashing gives you great mobility without having to open a menu to fetch Rush or whoever and wall jumping opens up huge windows of opportunity for vertically oriented levels without having the need for ladders or stepping blocks all over the place.

I definitely liked the addition of dashing. I haven't played through them with a minimal/no item run, so yeah, maybe they would be more fun to me that way.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Other M I just don't know why it even exists and is titled that way.

You didn't play it, huh? That's Other M in a nutshell - unplayed game.