Black Sheep of Game Series

[njiska]

Can you guys think of any games that are truly the black sheep of their franchise? I'm talking games that took such a drastic shift the rest of the series that they feel foriegn, cold, unnatural. Not pure spinoffs like Mega Man Legends or different style games in the same universe that happened to work like Mega Man X Command Mission, but really uncomfortable entries in series. It's just something I've been pondering while I prepared for my Shadow the Hedgehog playthrough. Only two games are coming to my mind at the moment:

Shadow the Hedgehog - Added guns. Went really dark. Felt not like a Sonic Universe game.
Bomberman: Act Zero - Tried to reinvent itself as something hardcore and gritty. Ended up alienating all of the series fans. Something like watching Kirby eat a puppy.

[trap15]

Battle Bakraid

[Skykid]

Progear, in Cave catalogue terms.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Super Mario 64, Donkey Kong Country... Where Nintendo cooties showed. Most recent offender - Mario Kart Wii. Every game where Mario is voiced and so on. Zelda Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword - I have no idea about game design here (yet), but the character designs put me off (a bit). Not SM64-bad, though.
Most console first person shooters really (yeah, I digress).

[Gespenst]

Front Mission (D)Evolved (there's a MMOTPS Front Mission before this and it sorta worked) and Ace Combat Assault Horizon (if it still counts) are two of the biggest contenders.

Ridge Racer Unbounded because they added Burnout elements and rather strange drifting physics in it, whether it's still could be considered as good or bad. (I don't quite mind about it though, I almost play it solely for scoring )

Need for Speed: The Run as well IMHO (least favorite NFS after the recent Most Wanted and Undercover). And C&C 4.

[Specineff]

Wipeout Fusion. May it burn in hell forever.

[KAI]

Samurai Spirits Tenkaichi
Guilty Gear Isuka
KOF 2003
Touhou 13
DMC2
Ridge Racer Unbounded
Every James Bond game released after Golden Eye
Contra - Legacy of War

[Paradigm]

Donkey Kong Country... Where Nintendo cooties showed.

DKC was made by Rare, and I disagree with the other games you listed.

Zelda II

[njiska]

Guilty Gear Isuka
Ridge Racer Unbounded
Every James Bond game released after Golden Eye

Some good choices, but I think if anything is the black sheep of the Guilty Gear franchise it's the abominable Dust Strikers on the NDS. Which I still have sitting on my shelf reminding me of my bad decision making.

As for the James Bond games, I'm inclined to agree with you, but with one exception and that's 007: Everything or Nothing. That was a solid game.

Ridge Racer Unbounded because they added Burnout elements and rather strange drifting physics in it, whether it's still could be considered as good or bad. (I don't quite mind about it though, I almost play it solely for scoring )

That is a great example as the game itself is just fine, but it is most definitely not a Ridge Racer game because of the drift mechanics.

C&C 4.

I keep forgetting this is a thing... I think I was happier that way.

Super Mario 64, Donkey Kong Country... Where Nintendo cooties showed. Most recent offender - Mario Kart Wii. Every game where Mario is voiced and so on. Zelda Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword - I have no idea about game design here (yet), but the character designs put me off (a bit). Not SM64-bad, though.
Most console first person shooters really (yeah, I digress).

I don't think most of those games, aside from possibly Twilight Princess, would be seen as Black Sheep. Don't get me wrong, I don't care for any one of them (Barring DKC which I love), but they seem to fit just fine within their respective series and are well liked by fans.

Progear, in Cave catalogue terms.

Man if I was going to go for a Cave entry I'd probably have gone with the Ibrara PS2 port, but point taken. In many ways the CPS2 game is the odd one out of the family.

[KAI]

Ibara PS2 port has arrange mode, the best arrange mode ever IMO.

Gradius 3
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow

[MX7]

The plural of 'sheep' is 'sheep'.

[Paradigm]

Resident Evil Code: Veronica

[njiska]

The plural of 'sheep' is 'sheep'.

Yeah well that what I get for posting without sleeping for a day.

Ibara PS2 port has arrange mode, the best arrange mode ever IMO.

I was referring just to the main game and it's lack of any kind of slow down. Obviously the arrange is quite popular.

[Hagane]

Progear, in Cave catalogue terms.

Dangun Feveron feels even more out of place. What is this? Fast bullets and non contrived scoring in MY Cave game?

Castlevania: Lords of Shadow. A bad copy of a bad series that has very very little in common with Castlevania.
Guilty Gear 2: Overture. So the successor to a 2D fighting game franchise is a 3D RTS / Beat'em-up hybrid? Oookay.
Metal Slug 3D. A 3D game made by SNK. What could go wrong?

[Jonathan Ingram]

Devil May Cry 2
Ace Combat: Assault Horizon
Front Mission Evolved
Doom III
Unreal Tournament 2003
Vandal Hearts: Flames of Judgment
Hitman: Contracts
Deus Ex: Invisible War
Final Fantasy XIII
Master of Orion III
Twisted Metal III
The Legend of Zelda II
Ys III: Wanderers from Ys
Heroes of Might & Magic IV
Ninja Gaiden 3
Virtua Fighter 3
Suikoden IV
Xenosaga Episode II
House of the Dead III
Ultima IX
Eye of the Beholder III
Clock Tower II: The Struggle Within
S.T.A.L.K.E.R - Clear Sky
DoDonPachi 2: Bee Storm

[Daigohji]

Resident Evil 6
Dino Crisis 3
Street Fighter Ex
Final Fantasy XIII and XIV
Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness
Killzone

[KAI]

I thought Suikoden V was worst that IV.

Ys: The Ark of Napishtim
Tales of series on PSP

[Hagane]

Street Fighter Ex

SFEX plays more like a proper Street Fighter than something like the SF3 series (my personal pick for "black sheep" of Street Fighter). And I'd definitely take it over SFIV.

[Jonathan Ingram]

I thought Suikoden V was worst that IV.

I didn`t like either, but I know that V was generally regarded as a major improvement over IV.

Ys: The Ark of Napishtim

Nope.

[Gespenst]

Uh, Thunder Force VI and/or Broken Thunder still hasn't counted yet?

Most people considered Another Century's Episode R as the main black sheep of the series due to the dumbed-down gameplay (albeit it has tons and tons of mecha fanservice, i.e (partially) playable Nineball Seraph), and ACE:Portable as well.

[cj iwakura]

Growlanser V. Even Japan hated it. Natural choice for Atlus USA's first localization!

[Obiwanshinobi]

I don't think most of those games, aside from possibly Twilight Princess, would be seen as Black Sheep. Don't get me wrong, I don't care for any one of them (Barring DKC which I love), but they seem to fit just fine within their respective series and are well liked by fans.

Is it a thumbs up/down thread now? I thought it was about opinions rather than being right or wrong.
These days the only game where Mario as I remember him seems alive is the original Super Mario Land. Not even SMB Deluxe (excellent as is) does it for me.
Likewise, the other games I mentioned appear disturbing in a way I didn't expect coming from Nintendo. How can MK Wii can look this ugly and get away with it is beyond me. Zelda since 2001 has been better off in Capcom's gentle care than handled by Nintendo.
I suspect most shit people said about Metroid: Other M are things they wanted to say about the games in discussion but kept choking on these and it just came out suddenly.

[Mortificator]

You know, the same guy who directed the Capcom Zelda games directed Skyward Sword. Maybe you'd like that if you liked the earlier ones, though I can't speak on its quality directly. The only Fujibayashi-helmed titles that I've played through are Oracle of Ages & Oracle of Seasons, which weren't bad, but weren't nearly as good as Link's Awakening.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Oh, I don't expect Skyward Sword to be a bad game. The thing is, when I saw the screens, it was obvious that it's not a day one must-buy. Wind Waker got the graphics, of all things, right. No such luck here.

[Ed Oscuro]

Counter-Strike: Condition Zero.

For Castlevania, you can go all the way back to Adventure and Castlevania 2. Not worst games ever - I can't really play CV2 on account of illusionary tiles and outrageously mapped manors - but not the series' best. Actually, you could go even slightly further back to Haunted Castle. Yeah, I guess that series is filled with black sheep.

Contra series - Game Boy Color port of Contra III could count, but it's not well known.

[Vexorg]

Some other ones that seem to be regarded as black sheep:

Metroid Fusion
Halo ODST
Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance
Quake 4

[mesh control]

Metal Gear Solid 4

[njiska]

Is it a thumbs up/down thread now? I thought it was about opinions rather than being right or wrong.
These days the only game where Mario as I remember him seems alive is the original Super Mario Land. Not even SMB Deluxe (excellent as is) does it for me.
Likewise, the other games I mentioned appear disturbing in a way I didn't expect coming from Nintendo. How can MK Wii can look this ugly and get away with it is beyond me. Zelda since 2001 has been better off in Capcom's gentle care than handled by Nintendo.
I suspect most shit people said about Metroid: Other M are things they wanted to say about the games in discussion but kept choking on these and it just came out suddenly.

No, it's not thumb's up, thumbs down, and you can have whatever opinion you want, but when I started this thread I was looking more for games where it's the general consensus of the fanbase, not just personal opinion. i.e. games that everyone seems to see as Black Sheep, not just your self. I know that's still quite subjective, but I don't think games that regularly appear on critics best of lists meets that criteria. That's why I gave Shadow and Bomberman Act Zero as examples.

That said, I think you make a fair argument about games appearing disturbing and why they're black sheep to you.

[Specineff]

Uh, Thunder Force VI and/or Broken Thunder still hasn't counted yet?.

Broken Thunder is not, never has been, and NEVER will be part of the TF series anymore than Secret of Evermore is any part of the Secret of Mana series. The only link is the word "thunder" and the genre. It can't be the black sheep of the series because it doesn't belong. It's a bastard Doujin that should have been eliminated at the blastula stage.


Now that's off my chest, TF6... Yeah, I kind of see your point. It feels like the least Thunder Force-ish of all the TFs.

[drunkninja24]

Final Fantasy II on NES