Diaoyu or Senkaku?

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Skykid
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Diaoyu or Senkaku?

Post by Skykid »

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Added poll for great shmups.org bias. Have a feeling I know which way it will go. (POLL DELETED - Forum code not working properly.)

So as this rages on in the news, anyone know the actual historical basis of ownership around these uninhabited, potentially oil rich islands?

The Chinese seem to have documentation to prove they own them, the Japanese have a week old sales receipt from a US sanctioned purchase based on the 1951 San Francisco treaty that China never officially recognised. Where will it end?!

In today's news, Japan's economy has been adversely affected by Chinese companies locking down trade agreements over the dispute. It could be the 'tip of the iceberg' they warn.


Will China roll out the gunships?

Can Japan survive without healthy Chinese trade relations?

Will more little men swim over to the islands and start waving flags?

Will Japan launch their first ever war-ready Gundam?

Discuss.
Last edited by Skykid on Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:28 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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njiska
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Re: Daioyu or Senkaku?

Post by njiska »

Skykid wrote:Will Japan launch their first ever war-ready Gundam?

Discuss.
Those would have made the Falklands a lot more interesting. Though I fear what British and Argentinean mechs would be like.

As for this dispute, I really don't know much bout it or care. China and Japan will be China and Japan and we'll probably have a lot of passive-aggressive bantering for months to come.
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Re: Daioyu or Senkaku?

Post by KennyMan666 »

Is it only me, or is that island shaped like the head of a Xenomorph?
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Re: Daioyu or Senkaku?

Post by Ed Oscuro »

The Chinese have a damn good eye for anniversaries: Xinhuanet article

but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senkaku_Islands

but also this poll is flawed, it doesn't mention Tiaoyu(tai), and also you are thinking in the Japanese ordering when you write "dai" instead of "dia," "Diaoyu" is apparently the correct romanization

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KennyMan666 wrote:Is it only me, or is that island shaped like the head of a Xenomorph?
I see it the other way around first: A really, really early progenitor of the human race, with a streamlined head and some big teefs, grown over with moss over the years. At the beginning of the Super Paleotendo game Super Old Cavevania 4 you can see this face head-on in a rock formation, and some purple pterosaurs fly out of the eyesockets.
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Re: Daioyu or Senkaku?

Post by Skykid »

Ed Oscuro wrote:"Diaoyu" is apparently the correct romanization
Thanks Ed! ;)
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Re: Daioyu or Senkaku?

Post by Ed Oscuro »

ROC 4EVR
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Re: Daioyu or Senkaku?

Post by trap15 »

Polls are broke.
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Re: Daioyu or Senkaku?

Post by Skykid »

trap15 wrote:Polls are broke.
Yeah, what the hell. :idea:

Edit: tried deleting and re-creating it, still broke. Must be a problem with the forum code, dunno. May as well delete it anyway, it was only folly after all.
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Re: Diaoyu or Senkaku?

Post by KAI »

Here's an Argentinean mecha njiska, this is the best we can do.
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Re: Diaoyu or Senkaku?

Post by njiska »

KAI wrote:Here's an Argentinean mecha njiska, this is the best we can do.
Ah, truly a fearsome design indeed. Well done KAI.
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Re: Diaoyu or Senkaku?

Post by Ganelon »

The only confirmable fact is that as with many late 20th/early 21st century's international problems, the Diaoyu/Senkaku issue can be directly traced to western tampering during the era of expansionism.

The US is smart to stay far away from the mess that it helped start. If it even hints at supporting Japan, then I'd bet the next flag getting stomped and burned by a Chinese nationalist mob will be America's.
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Re: Diaoyu or Senkaku?

Post by GaijinPunch »

Ganelon wrote:The only confirmable fact is that as with many late 20th/early 21st century's international problems, the Diaoyu/Senkaku issue can be directly traced to western tampering during the era of expansionism.
Hmm... I'm not going to go too far into this as I'll admit, most of my exposure to it is what's ALL OVER the fucking news 24/7 here. But, I assume Japan "claimed" the islands at the conclusion of the 2nd Sino-Japan War. America operated on it during the occupational forces, and then kinda-sorta gave it back. I assume that China thinks that sense most land that the Empire of Japan attained through aggression was eventually given back, the islands would be too. That's a horrible simplification, but it can't be too far off.
The US is smart to stay far away from the mess that it helped start. If it even hints at supporting Japan, then I'd bet the next flag getting stomped and burned by a Chinese nationalist mob will be America's.
I would have to dig it up as it was over a year ago, but they have gone on the record saying to China that they would have to side with their ally Japan on any territorial dispute. So, I doubt America is going to be invited to the discussion table, but we'll see. China really does hold the cards here though, although Japan could threaten to treat all Chinese residing in Japan with racial bigotry and deep-seeded hatret. Oh, wait... :?

Next question: Takeshima or Dokdo?

EDIT: Went on a little Wikipedia adventure and found the following on the lengthy page discussing The Treaty of San Francisco.
Article 3 of the treaty left the Bonin Islands and the Ryukyu Islands, which included Okinawa and the Amami, Miyako and Yaeyama Islands groups, under a potential U.S. trusteeship. Whilst the treaty suggested that these territories would become U.S. trusteeship, at the end that option was not pursued. The Amami Islands were eventually restored to Japan on December 25, 1953, as well as the Bonin Islands on April 5, 1968.[15] In 1969 U.S.-Japan negotiations authorized the transfer of authority over the Ryūkyūs to Japan to be implemented in 1972. In 1972, the United States "reversion" of the Ryūkyūs occurred along with the ceding of control over the nearby (uninhabited) Senkaku Islands.[16] Both the People's Republic of China and the Republic of China, now commonly known as "Taiwan", argue that this agreement did not determine the ultimate sovereignty of the Senkaku Islands.
It stated earlier that China and Taiwan were not at the convention due to ongoing civil war. The Soviets were there and were none-to-pleased with the outcome. Tsk, tsk.
Last edited by GaijinPunch on Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Diaoyu or Senkaku?

Post by Skykid »

Thanks guys, now this thread has a little discussion.

I know nothing about the historical ownership of the islands, so most of the above is news to me. I didn't realise that the islands were claimed as recently as after the second-sino war, which immediately makes sense as to why they're such a sore point - although I was under the impression they were located in the vicinity of oil, which makes them valuable to either side? (Correct if wrong.)

I don't think it makes any sense for the US to sanction the sale of the islands based on a treaty where one party in the ownership war was never in attendance. That's just ridiculous. In that sense, the Chinese accusation of an 'illegal' purchase has truth, if assuming they would need to recognise the treaty to make it legal.

On other things, the Chinese nationalism is absurd. Don't those fuckers have day jobs? Why they can't just leave it to the governments to resolve is beyond me, but then any sino war related issue always stirs up mass foaming at the mouth.

A fuckload of Japanese retail outlets have closed temporarily all over China, damaging trade revenue for both countries, but moreso for Japan. Oddly enough, Japan is China's largest trading partner, and they had record growth in the last year.

Things were going so well. :(
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Re: Diaoyu or Senkaku?

Post by GaijinPunch »

Things were only going well on the surface. They have always hated each other and always will.

At the bar last night we decided that the only rational thing to do is to give the islands to either the Palestinians or Israel.
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Re: Daioyu or Senkaku?

Post by xbl0x180 »

njiska wrote:
Skykid wrote:Will Japan launch their first ever war-ready Gundam?

Discuss.
Those would have made the Falklands a lot more interesting. Though I fear what British and Argentinean mechs would be like.
There wouldn't be mechs. Their armies would look like Starship Troopers 8)
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Re: Diaoyu or Senkaku?

Post by GaijinPunch »

A few days ago, the man the started this whole fucked up ruckus, Blinky Ishihara, stepped down as supreme ruler of Tokyo. He will start a new political party "Taiyou no Dou" (The Sunshine Party). Scroll down to "Views on Foreigners" and "Other Controversial Statements" for some LOLs. Also note that not only was he elected and re-elected, he has generally had pretty high approval ratings. Much higher than the clown-cary-worty array of PMs over the last 5 years.
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