Hello from Rising Star Games!

[trap15]

It'll be gone forever for people who want to not break the law.

[n0rtygames]

I'm not too interested in debating the ethics of roms/backup games, it's been beaten to death here and other places and I won't be adding anything new. I'm only pointing out that it is not exactly true to say that the game will be gone forever.

No no, for sure - I get that and I don't want to start that sort of discussion either. I'd be a bit hypocritical if I were to start taking the moral high ground over ROMs and breaking laws.

It's obviously going to be hidden somewhere in the EULA stating that XBLA services, terms and conditions can change at any time and you can be denied access to the service at MS's discretion - right? There's no argument against that - it's just how it is. Why should I or anyone else for that matter, as the consumer, have to even consider taking this route to keep a game that I've paid for in my possession?

You're not talking about low budget developers submitting to XBLIG here because it's the only way to gain access to the platform, you're talking about companies with reasonable budgets who can quite clearly afford to have (and have already committed to having) batches of physical copies created - as is demonstrated by picture of the two fine gentlemen rolling around in a pile of Under Defeat boxes giggling.

[system11]

It'll be gone forever for people who want to not break the law.

If someone cares enough to make a copy, and if someone manages to emulate current consoles (they've not got anything simpler perfect yet past 8 bit days). Stuff needs to be physical.

[EmperorIng]

Just how much can you be prosecuted by the jam?

[exquisite_torture]

If digital prerelease existed, not enough people would buy the hardcopies to justify the production runs.

If there's a hard copy to be had, the core shooter fans are always going to pick that up. I found it interesting talking to a few 'casual' shooter fans, people who couldn't wait for the UK disk release, didn't want to pay import prices when UDHD came out in Japan, and picked up the UK PSN download for £30. The same people also went for Sine Mora at 1200MSp. There's definitely another group out there who like the genre, but not enough to pay £70 plus import tax and handling fees. Maybe a £20 pre-release digital download is the way to go for publishers to target these people.

[exquisite_torture]

Can I have a job at RSG?

[RSG_Spoonparty]

I guess it goes without saying that retail copies are going to be far more popular and successful than the downloadsand thats fine, we are going to always provide the physical product if possible. I'm beginning to wonder if there is really any point having shmup titles like these available to download through PSN and GonD. I can't say that I know the costs and such implementing a downloadable version to the store. It will be interesting to see the figures from Under Defeat's online presence. I know Akai Katana yielded pretty underwhelming results on the download side

[exquisite_torture]

I guess it goes without saying that retail copies are going to be far more popular and successful than the downloadsand thats fine, we are going to always provide the physical product if possible. I'm beginning to wonder if there is really any point having shmup titles like these available to download through PSN and GonD. I can't say that I know the costs and such implementing a downloadable version to the store. It will be interesting to see the figures from Under Defeat's online presence. I know Akai Katana yielded pretty underwhelming results on the download side

The type of punter I was referring to don't normally go for Cave's output, citing difficulty as the main issue. UDHD is closer to the pre-Bullet Hell style, like Sine Mora. There is a crowd for that, but they need to be told about it, and reassured it's not a Cave style game, like in the case of Eurogamer and Edge's enthusiasm towards Sine Mora. Cave is very niche, some are put off by it. Certainly not me, I love my collection, but older guys who were Saturn/Dreamcast owners still like shmups, but feel they aren't catered for and are unfortunately a bit spoiled by PSN and XBLA's pricing. They don't expect to pay full retail prices for a 2D game, but bought UDHD for £30 on PSN because they enjoyed it on Dreamcast and were already aware of it.

[Alfred]

I guess it goes without saying that retail copies are going to be far more popular and successful than the downloadsand thats fine, we are going to always provide the physical product if possible. I'm beginning to wonder if there is really any point having shmup titles like these available to download through PSN and GonD. I can't say that I know the costs and such implementing a downloadable version to the store. It will be interesting to see the figures from Under Defeat's online presence. I know Akai Katana yielded pretty underwhelming results on the download side

Do you know how many UD:HD xbox 360 PAL (Boxed disc ones) have been made?. Eg. 5000, or 10,000?. Can you tell us? you are the publisher. Please tell us we would love to know.

[R79]

we are going to always provide the physical product if possible.

Excellent. I really enjoy the packaging and posters of the 3 shooters so far, as well as KOFXIII, with the flip cover (reminds me of the VHS days). Gamers like me who got into this hobby collecting import Saturn games really like a nice Japanese looking object to have on the shelf while we play, that's for sure. Long may it continue!

[Leeloo Minaï]

Good thing for Under Defeat, now we want a PAL release of Raiden IV !

[Zeether]

Can we have an answer on a US release for Kokuga or is this going to keep being the Under Defeat thread?

[doctorx0079]

I guess it goes without saying that retail copies are going to be far more popular and successful than the downloadsand thats fine, we are going to always provide the physical product if possible. I'm beginning to wonder if there is really any point having shmup titles like these available to download through PSN and GonD. I can't say that I know the costs and such implementing a downloadable version to the store. It will be interesting to see the figures from Under Defeat's online presence. I know Akai Katana yielded pretty underwhelming results on the download side

And sadly he/she seems to have left the forums forever. That's too bad, because I wanted to ask if it's true what I just read elsewhere, that RSG is abandoning Cave forever because their games don't sell enough outside of Japan. Oh well, there's always iPad and importing foreign consoles.

[KitesAreFun]

There are too many laws most of which are economically inefficient. Where efficient then desired, or so David thinks (I think):

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/ ... perty.html

Laws and Rights go hand-in-hand.