Hello from Rising Star Games!

Nana · Post by **Nana** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:54 pm

A bit late to the party, but it shouldn't hurt to pipe in.

First of all, thank you very much for Under Defeat HD, I'm absolutely buying the PS3 version as soon as I get a chance. I have a PS3 and 360, so don't care too much about which platform it gets released on, so long as I can actually play it here in the US.

I do not like digital downloads of games, and will not buy one if a box version is available, regardless of price. That's the only reason I haven't purchased DSIIX yet, on the vague hope that it one day sees a release that I can actually play in my region.

As for upcoming games, I'm very much hoping for Mushihimesama HD, and Saidaioujou in second for a hopefully region-free release, as I'm also in America and cannot purchase any PAL-only games.

Thanks for taking the time to read and talk to us,
All the best

RSG_Spoonparty · Post by **RSG_Spoonparty** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:20 am

Heya guys,

I'm not dead! Just a little bit super busy. Anyone here going to be at MCMExpo in London next weekend? Personally I'm a big downloading fan. I just love having all my stuff online that I can access. I'm not a tidy person so hundreds of game cases are never good for me to have around lol

hipgnosis · Post by **hipgnosis** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:57 pm

Most of shmuppers prefer their games in retail packages though.

I personally don't trust digital download lastability and want to have my games physical so I'm guaranteed that I can play the games years to come.

mdsfx · Post by **mdsfx** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:31 pm

hipgnosis wrote:Most of shmuppers prefer their games in retail packages though.

I personally don't trust digital download last-ability and want to have my games physical so I'm guaranteed that I can play the games years to come.

+1

RealPlumpBox · Post by **RealPlumpBox** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:48 pm

hipgnosis wrote:Most of shmuppers prefer their games in retail packages though.

I personally don't trust digital download lastability and want to have my games physical so I'm guaranteed that I can play the games years to come.

This. I despise DD. Although I use it if its the only option......which still bothers the fuck out of me.

Stevas · Post by **Stevas** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:09 am

mdsfx wrote:
hipgnosis wrote:Most of shmuppers prefer their games in retail packages though.

I personally don't trust digital download last-ability and want to have my games physical so I'm guaranteed that I can play the games years to come.
+1

An interesting point. Shmups are something of a timeless genre. If a shmup is good, it lasts. Dodonpachi, anyone? Or N64 Goldeneye? They both came out at pretty much the same time. Don't get me wrong: I loved Goldeneye; when it came out, it was never out of my slot (erm). Or, for that matter, any of my mates slots (erm again). It was THE game to play, while getting "recreationally wasted". Pretty much one of my top ten favourite games ever, I'd say (though my hindsight is possibly somewhat clouded - see the "recreationally wasted" comment).

I still have the N64. And Goldeneye. I can count on the fingers of no hands the number of times I've fished that console out for a trip down that particular memory lane. I HAVE, however, tried it emulated (and at a framerate that puts the original to shame). Yeah... it was great, wasn't it? Was. Wasn't it. You get me?

Dodonpachi probably gets played - I dunno - every couple of weeks?

Anyway, this is maybe a different discussion. Personally, I find it interesting that 2D stuff seems to age way, way better than the 3D stuff (to me - is it just me?)
And a decent shmup seems to age the best of all. I do have theories... but yeah, we're already at tl;dr territory, here.

Oh, that reminds me.
tl;dr, skip-to-the-end, "the fuck is he on about?" summing up bit:

I'm far more likely to want to play my shmups in ten years time (if my fingers will still allow me to) than any other genre, and therefore, I'm a bit twitchier about buying them in ways that possibly fucks with that.

Or:

Plus a shitload.

AND:
Mushi HD AND SDO please. Any chance of Ibara? At all?
Moon on a stick too, while I'm asking.

RSG_Spoonparty · Post by **RSG_Spoonparty** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:35 pm

I've gone back and read through everyone's replies out digital download and I must confess you people have opened my mind. As I said before I quite like doing things digitally and hadn't thought much into the advantages and retail. Having read the feedback I've found myself thoroughly understanding the retail perspective. Really in depth and interesting reply, Hydroglox and thanks to everyone for illustrating the weight of this opinion. I might just write a blog on this subject.......

I like how this forum is mature and thinks things over and then shows that in their response. Maybe I've just had too much exposure to flame filled forums of most mainstream titles

Enjoyed your response too, CoolgyFurlough. Thanks for sharing a bit more info on the digital download side of things and I agree with what you say about it drawing more interest to the genre.

What are peeps up to this week?

Alfred · Post by **Alfred** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:50 pm

I will be playing STG's Sam, When is Under Defeat HD (Xbox 360) coming out?.

Acid_Rain · Post by **Acid_Rain** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:09 pm

@RSG_Spoonparty: was the game delayed a few days?

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:45 pm

RSG_Spoonparty wrote:I might just write a blog on this subject.......

Make sure to leave us a link to read it if you do.

Oh, and give us a concrete release date for UDHD, dangit.

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:24 am

Yeah, a confirmation of the release date would be much appreciated. Amazon announced a few days ago that it'll be out on the 9th of November, but none of the other online stores I've seen have budged from the original date, which would be this Friday!

Edit: ah, ShopTo have changed their date now, too. Nov 9th it is!

AssanCHOP · Post by **AssanCHOP** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:30 am

Another thing to take into account is actual internet availability. I live in a rural area where broadband just is NOT possible (satellite internet is a joke) and physical media is preffered.

VixyNyan · Post by **VixyNyan** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:36 am

A local store in Sweden mentions an October 30 release. o.o

But I think I will wait for the Amazon release unless something else happens before that. ^^;

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:55 pm

Release date confirmed!

17 daaaaaays...

HeWhoGoverns · Post by **HeWhoGoverns** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:27 am

Any idea why the PS3 US release is not reservable yet? I check every day when I go into work and am saddened each time. (I work for Gamestop)

VixyNyan · Post by **VixyNyan** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:22 am

I dunno about GameStop in US, but Amazon US has the PS3 version as well, they should be shipping it at the mentioned release date.

I picked the X360 EU one for the moment.

Stores in UK/Europe seem to have them ready to preorder as well.
http://www.game.co.uk/en/under-defeat-d ... ion-180917 (X360)
http://www.game.co.uk/en/under-defeat-d ... ion-180919 (PS3)
http://www.shopto.net/xbox360/XB2UN10-u ... xe-edition
http://www.shopto.net/ps3/PS3UN10-under ... xe-edition
http://www.365games.co.uk/xbox-360-game ... e-xbox-360
http://www.365games.co.uk/ps3-games/und ... n-game-ps3

Stevas · Post by **Stevas** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:13 am

I forgot to also ask for Raiden IV and Fighters Aces.

Tell you what, you get me them, and we can forget all about the moon on a stick.

RSG_Spoonparty · Post by **RSG_Spoonparty** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:39 am

Right o! Under Defeat HD Deluxe Edition release dates:

UK release 9th November
-----
USA release 27th November
-----
Germany
France 13th January
Italy
-----

Apologies from RSG for the dates shuffling and such. It's pretty much down to securing the agreements for shipping and distribution which have lead to the delays. But not long now!

Kumasan · Post by **Kumasan** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:29 pm

Under Defeat XBLA- 1200 pts

How hard is this? Rising Star wants to make money right? As much as I love collecting things, I also love convenience. I'm not 17, living in my parent's basement surrounded by anime wall scrolls anymore. I don't have the space (or audicity) to display 5+ different consoles in my entertainment center. I just want to boot up my xbox and play. I'm pretty sure xbox2 or whatever they end up calling it will allow users to transfer their purchases. Itunes and the appstore works this way, I don't see why MS wouldn't do this either.

What I don't understand is why Rising Star chose to port it over to PS3 when I'm almost certain the Shmup user base in America is bigger for the 360. It's like they went for the nicheiest of the niche market. 30 bucks is great but I'm not buying a PS3 for it. It's a real bummer.

Still I wish Rising Star the best and I hope they give DD a closer look. I want to play these games today and I'm sure there are lots of people who would fork over their space bucks in a heartbeat.

kassj0peja · Post by **kassj0peja** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:38 pm

fantastic. and maybe now you can convince grev to work on border down hd

MR_Soren · Post by **MR_Soren** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:42 pm

Kumasan wrote:Under Defeat XBLA- 1200 pts

How hard is this? Rising Star wants to make money right?

Rising Star has typically done GoD releases of their games following the physical release. It might happen again.

exquisite_torture · Post by **exquisite_torture** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:32 pm

I'd happily echo your sentiment, but I don't think 1200MSp is a realistic price. I wonder how £19.99 appeal.

Meseki · Post by **Meseki** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:52 pm

I think two of Microsoft's policies for the US make it somewhat difficult for Under Defeat HD to have a profitable 360 American release (this is based on hearsay, however):
-A minimum required print run that is too much for a niche title (I've heard it might be around 50,000)
-Anything on Games on Demand must have a retail release (though wasn't Deathsmiles II a sort of exception?)

I don't know how true those are, but it seems a little more plausible than some companies' statements on Microsoft's region free policies. It also might be what stopped Arcana Heart 3 from having an American 360 release.

Post by **system11** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:16 pm

Good, keep it physical with niche titles. There are already games from the old x-box live service which exist only on machines they were downloaded to.

Why does the rest of Europe have to wait so long? Seems almost redundant to release them with a delay that big when most of the people who care will just grab a copy from Amazon UK.

Kumasan · Post by **Kumasan** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:33 pm

exquisite_torture wrote:I'd happily echo your sentiment, but I don't think 1200MSp is a realistic price. I wonder how £19.99 appeal.

If Sine Mora has a hard time selling at 1200MSp, I doubt Under Defeat would do any better.

Are there even enough shmup fans on PS3 to warrant a US port?

VixyNyan · Post by **VixyNyan** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:10 am

Meseki wrote: -Anything on Games on Demand must have a retail release (though wasn't Deathsmiles II a sort of exception?)

Might be because Microsoft saw that the Japan-only release of the physical copy was qualified enough for a Demand release. Cave might have suggested this idea to them, who knows. o.o

Meseki wrote:It also might be what stopped Arcana Heart 3 from having an American 360 release.

Oh no no no, that's simply because American 1st party companies hates ecchi or underaged and/or busty girls put on their systems (AH3 on 360, Senran Kagura on 3DS), so they give us lots of BAH BAH (NSMB with fitting music), family-friendly and sports games. I don't know if there's an actual law in the country against it either, but Sony doesn't seem have a problem with it (Hyper Dimension Neptunia series).

HydrogLox · Post by **HydrogLox** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:32 am

Kumasan wrote:Under Defeat XBLA- 1200 pts How hard is this? Rising Star wants to make money right?

Kumasan wrote:If Sine Mora has a hard time selling at 1200MSp, I doubt Under Defeat would do any better.

For me both of these statements don't mesh. If Sine Mora, which got a decent reception with mainstream reviewers (but often scathing criticism from the genre's main audience) can't make any money as a 1200 MSP download, how could Rising Star Games hope to make any money off of a DLC version of Under Defeat HD??? It would most likely be generally viewed as a 2005 retread that "shouldn't be more than 400 MSP at the most". Problem is, even at 400 MSP it wouldn't sell that many more copies to make it profitable. Digital downloads are only "cheaper" if you can set lots and lots of copies but the consumers of digital downloads like their fare dirt-cheap. Delivering digitally to a limited audience drives up the price of each copy significantly - to the point where many people want something more tangible (i.e. a physical release) for their money.

Kumasan wrote:What I don't understand is why Rising Star chose to port it over to PS3 when I'm almost certain the Shmup user base in America is bigger for the 360.

Rising Star Games didn't port Under Defeat - G.rev did, it's their intellectual property. Rising Star Games is simply localizing the ports and decided, for the European market at least, to apply their localization to both ports. The potential North American shmup market probably had precious little influence over G.rev's decision to make the HD ports. G.rev's efforts were squarely aimed the domestic Japanese market. There they have an established Xbox 360 fan-base - but that market is shrinking rapidly. Apparently their experience with the PS3 port of Mamoru-kun wasn't all bad and naturally there is a large PS3 install base in Japan that isn't saturated with STGs. So in the Japanese market the PS3 version had the better "potential for growth".

The lack of the Xbox 360 port in North America can probably be explained by Akai Katana's lack of sales - the "Xbox 360 Shmup user base in America" is not being seen as a commercially viable market - at least on a "regional" level. The choice of the PS3 release is most likely to test that market as it has very little STG competition. Though I'm afraid that the experience will be quite similar to that of Akai Katana - even though Under Defeat HD's presentation and game play is much less arcane from the "Western perspective".

Alfred · Post by **Alfred** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:41 am

@ Hydroglox
Mamoru-Kun on PS3 sold 5,000 worldwide

Cuilan · Post by **Cuilan** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:44 am

Meseki wrote:I think two of Microsoft's policies for the US make it somewhat difficult for Under Defeat HD to have a profitable 360 American release (this is based on hearsay, however):
-A minimum required print run that is too much for a niche title (I've heard it might be around 50,000)
-Anything on Games on Demand must have a retail release (though wasn't Deathsmiles II a sort of exception?)

I don't know how true those are, but it seems a little more plausible than some companies' statements on Microsoft's region free policies. It also might be what stopped Arcana Heart 3 from having an American 360 release.

Based on my sources, the first is true (and probably presents the biggest challenge in these situations).

As for the second, there have been a number of exceptions besides Deathsmiles IIX: Crysis, Resident Evil 4, and Resident Evil Code Veronica. Of all those games, Crysis is the most interesting, since it hasn't received a physical release in ANY territory.

What I think the main issue is that has prevented the the PAL-360 releases of games like Arcana Heart 3 and Under Defeat HD from being compatible with US-360 consoles is the licensing agreements. It appears that Cave has been the easiest company to work with in this regard. I don't know exactly why there hasn't been any more international GoD releases for other JP-only games, but my guess would be that the original publishers simply don't want to deal with the hassle of doing it.

VixyNyan wrote: Oh no no no, that's simply because American 1st party companies hates ecchi or underaged and/or busty girls put on their systems (AH3 on 360, Senran Kagura on 3DS), so they give us lots of BAH BAH (NSMB with fitting music), family-friendly and sports games. I don't know if there's an actual law in the country against it either, but Sony doesn't seem have a problem with it (Hyper Dimension Neptunia series).

Both Deathsmiles 1 and 2 feature questionable content involving underage characters, and yet both games have seen releases in North America. There's also Record of Agarest War, which also has some questionable scenes and yet has also had a NA release on 360.

I'm pretty sure the real reason, at least in the case of AH3, is mainly due to licensing and print-run rules.

MR_Soren · Post by **MR_Soren** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:25 pm

VixyNyan wrote:
Meseki wrote:It also might be what stopped Arcana Heart 3 from having an American 360 release.
Oh no no no, that's simply because American 1st party companies hates ecchi or underaged and/or busty girls put on their systems (AH3 on 360, Senran Kagura on 3DS), so they give us lots of BAH BAH (NSMB with fitting music), family-friendly and sports games. I don't know if there's an actual law in the country against it either, but Sony doesn't seem have a problem with it (Hyper Dimension Neptunia series).

Sorry, but I think that is total BS, especially when you look at stuff like BlazBlue and Otomedius being on 360.

It is far more likely that there simply are not 50,000 Xbox 360 owners who wanted to buy Arcana Heart 3, Aksys knew this, and couldn't commit to bringing it over. Same story for Under Defeat. Also likely the reason Aksys didn't port more Cave games after Deathsmiles. (You can still find the LE and SE all over the place for cheap. Clearly, it didn't sell enough.)

It's a shame too. Microsoft is leaving a lot of good money on the table and steering customers away by telling niche games to go away.

shmups.system11.org

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