Aleste AI-driven Stage Design

[louisg]

I've been playing some Power strike on the Master System, and decided to read up on it. I didn't realize it when I was playing, but it looks like it uses an AI routine to determine what enemies to throw at the player. This makes sense given the sheer amount of chaos on-screen!

Has anyone dissected this? It sounds like an interesting idea. Anyone know if it ranks up like Zanac does? It seemed to throw insane amounts of enemies at me no matter what.

[Despatche]

if someone would make max rank hacks for compile games, they might actually approach "interesting"

who knows

[louisg]

if someone would make max rank hacks for compile games, they might actually approach "interesting"

who knows

Hmm are they capped pretty low? I was surprised by Aleste because it seemed so much busier than the later Compile games-- I consider M.U.S.H.A. and Spriggan to be snoozefests for example.

[trap15]

Lots of games throw different enemies based on the rank. I know for a fact that Garegga, Batrider and Bakraid all do; I'd imagine Ibara and the rest of Yagawa's games do as well. Given that Yagawa worked for Naxat and Raizing/8ing, who both have close ties to Compile, I can understand if Compile's games also do that as well.

[KAI]

Thank god Pinksweets doesn't do that.

[louisg]

Lots of games throw different enemies based on the rank. I know for a fact that Garegga, Batrider and Bakraid all do; I'd imagine Ibara and the rest of Yagawa's games do as well. Given that Yagawa worked for Naxat and Raizing/8ing, who both have close ties to Compile, I can understand if Compile's games also do that as well.

Right, but what stuck out at me was that I think Aleste's patterns might not be explicitly designed by a level designer. In most rank-based shooters, you have the patterns planned out with slight alterations. I think Aleste might just be a total randomly-generated (with rules and parameters) free-for-all, deciding what enemies to throw at you entirely on the fly (like an endless mode but, uh, with an end). That's what caught my attention.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I consider M.U.S.H.A. and Spriggan to be snoozefests for example.

Play GunHed on Hard (enter the code).
Seirei Senshi Spriggan has a rather unique caravan mode (feels unique to me anyways).

[louisg]

I consider M.U.S.H.A. and Spriggan to be snoozefests for example.

Play GunHed on Hard (enter the code).
Seirei Senshi Spriggan has a rather unique caravan mode (feels unique to me anyways).

Yeah, not a lot of argument there. I like Spriggan's caravan mode.

But I don't want to debate about Compile shmups, I want to discuss CPU-driven level design! Or, lack of design, rather.

[BulletMagnet]

Lots of games throw different enemies based on the rank. I know for a fact that Garegga, Batrider and Bakraid all do; I'd imagine Ibara and the rest of Yagawa's games do as well.

Does Garegga do that? If so then the ST needs updating, as it only addresses "constant" enemies getting tougher as the rank gets higher.

As for the topic at hand, I seem to remember hearing that certain Compile shooters would vary the enemy patterns thrown at you in a particular area based on the weapon you were using at the time...someone more versed in this sort of thing would have to elaborate though.

[trap15]

I'm pretty sure Garegga does? I may be wrong on that one, but I am 100% that Batrider and Bakraid do it (I've actually tested those before myself).

[TransatlanticFoe]

There are some fixed patterns in Power Strike (other than the obvious ground bases). I think it ranks up pretty quickly - I usually find it maxes out into Stage 2. When you start to see the big ships spewing a column of missiles and/or orange bullets everywhere, you're close.

It also throws different stuff at you depending on which special weapon you have. It's probably most noticable to experiment with playing through Stage 1, so that you don't have rank getting in the way.

Doesn't make for interesting scoring though - it throws so much at you at max rank that if you die at all, you've lost a tonne of potential points whilst the rank climbs again.

[louisg]

There are some fixed patterns in Power Strike (other than the obvious ground bases). I think it ranks up pretty quickly - I usually find it maxes out into Stage 2. When you start to see the big ships spewing a column of missiles and/or orange bullets everywhere, you're close.

It also throws different stuff at you depending on which special weapon you have. It's probably most noticable to experiment with playing through Stage 1, so that you don't have rank getting in the way.

Doesn't make for interesting scoring though - it throws so much at you at max rank that if you die at all, you've lost a tonne of potential points whilst the rank climbs again.

That's interesting; I must've had it nearly on max rank in the first level, because I think the missiles were already flying by and spamming me. Is it possible to stall the rank increase? Or does it just rank down when you die?

[TransatlanticFoe]

I'm think it might be linked to your power, so you could always try holding off on too many power ups. Stick to level 2 of the special weapon and maybe slow dual fire on the main guns. But for scoring it's in your interest to max out rank ASAP and hold it there.

Definitely gets a full reset when you die though. No matter where you are it sends out the same enemies you got right at the start of the game (plus any fixed patterns and anything left on screen).

[cools]

Ibara does - popcorn enemies only.