Television for old consoles (RF/AV)

[Necronopticous]

Hey guys,

I am interested in getting my hands on a good, relatively small television for the single purpose of playing old consoles on it--primarily Famicom. I have avoided bothering for a long time because I know literally nothing about the subject. Can anyone give me some direction on the matter? Preferably something I wouldn't have a hell of a time finding.

Thanks!

[EmperorIng]

I don't know if this would be much help, but in my experience, these days old CRT tvs are so incredibly easy to find - people are literally giving them away. I found my 36" CRT tv because a guy in my neighborhood parish was throwing it out (and it works perfectly).

If you want to go the online route used electronics stores would be your best bet - but the shipping cost would be high. Even snooping around local used electronics shops you should be able to find one for cheap.

Every home has about 3 CRT tvs lying around in their basement... maybe ask some of your neighbors in your parents' old neighborhood? Every house I go to these days just has one laying around.

High-end models might be harder to find, such as the Bang and Olufsson MX7000 (a really nice-looking CRT but expensive), but any old Toshiba, Sharp, JVC, or Sony should be pretty easy for "retro" gaming. Smaller size would be easy to find as well, like a good 26" or lower.

[beatsgo]

If you're looking into 20"-32" size CRTs, I recommend you to look into getting a Sony Trinitron. If you're willing to take the time to search, the PVM line is worth getting.

[shmuppyLove]

EmperorIng is totally right -- browse your local Craigslist or Kijiji and you will find people giving them away, usually as long as you can pick it up.

[Ed Oscuro]

I check out a lot of old televisions at the local thrift basically as a hobby. There are tons of small (foot-wide and slightly smaller or larger) sets available, and these generally have coaxial cable connections and maybe white/yellow composite video over RCA jacks. Finding any TVs with S-video connections on back is somewhat rare. Look at Craigslist for sure.

If you're looking into 20"-32" size CRTs, I recommend you to look into getting a Sony Trinitron. If you're willing to take the time to search, the PVM line is worth getting.

I tried picking up a 26" Trinitron television recently (the KV-27FS13).

Emphasis here on "tried." Those suckers are HEAVY. Still, big sets are much nicer than small ones - 26" or 28" is what I've been comfortable with for a gaming set, particularly for any newer consoles (especially if you're doing anything 3D).

It was a really nice set with lots of connections on back - in addition to S-Video, it was the only set I've seen with component video in a long while, and additionally has HDMI or something on the back which I'd never seen on a thrift TV before (the only problem is that the tube is a little gray when turned off, and the set's furniture is ugly silver and the top isn't flat - other than this a recent model - about 10 years old). It was $20 at the local thrift. Went quickly and I somewhat regretted giving it up, although I don't miss the hernia I might have given myself.

Trinitrons are nice and use less power than the shadow-mask CRTs, but the Sony and Trinitron brands are not the only game in town. They generally have good features and build, but some other aperture grille ("Trinitron" technology) sets are available from other makers. I would try looking for Trinitrons or WEGA sets first, but if you don't find one of those, you can check out the Diamondtron and licensed sets (I don't know if ViewSonic's "SonicTron" is just for VGA computer monitors or for TVs also).

For what it's worth, I used to have a Compaq P110 Trinitron (Sony model tube inside) monitor, and it tripped a breaker every time I turned it on. "Only" 21" and about 60 pounds.

Wikipedia has what looks like a pretty good and comprehensive list of the various FD Trinitrons available:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron
____________________

What I've had for a long time for console gaming is a Samsung TXJ2767 - a decent if cheapie shadow-mask television with S-Video inputs, front-panel RCA jacks and (now loose and very finicky) front panel headphone jack. It was a great improvement over what I'd had before (old Radio Shack computer monitor that couldn't show red...annoying in Goldeneye!) but it has some odd geometry issue (and I think it always has) whereby the edges of the screen seem compressed even on 4:3 inputs - I noticed it recently scrolling across a large bitmap or top-down image, and noticed that the edges seemed to move less than the center. I also realized I needed to mess with the brightness and contrast / sharpness settings on it because dot crawl is showing up even in S-video sources.

[Necronopticous]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies. I checked out Craigslist and there seem to be Trinitrons for sale for $20-$50 all the time so I think I'll give that a shot.

[antron]

I have a 20" WEGA Trinitron with component instead of S-Video. With a SCART to component converter it's like having an RGB low res monitor. Composite looks superb as well (3 comb filter).

[mvsfan]

i agree with you, the wega line is an excellent display. poor mans pvm.

i only have 1 problem with the wega, my rgb nes i built wont sync to it. every other system i have works fine.

if i run the scart cable from the rgb nes out to an s-video encoder, and plug it into a 21 year old sylvania tv i have, it works fine.

on the sony wega all i get is b/w wavy lines with the picture rolling.

i have read, that the nes isnt putting out 60 hz sync, its more along the lines of 56hz, wich the wega cant sync to, whereas other tvs arent so picky, and will still display it.

thinking along those lines, is there an extra part i could put in the rgb nes, to make it sync at 60hz? is it possible to adjust the wega somehow?

im by no means an expert on this subject, id appreciate any input i can get. ive looked for answers elsewhere, and have found none.

[antron]

nothing is going to change the timing, but suppose that's not the problem. do you know if this RGB NES provides composite sync, composite video, or both?

[mvsfan]

there is no composite anywhere. i had to put a playchoice ppu chip in. it doesnt output composite.

[mvsfan]

ill tell you a little more about my setup.

im using an Altona scart to scart cable, very high quality cable every connection is soldered, not the usual poorly crimped junk.

and this yuv converter. [url][http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SCART-RGB-t ... 3362ac0577]

[antron]

normally SCART carries composite video on pin 20. If a TV accepts RGB it is expected to strip composite sync from composite video in order to get the timing. Do you think your SCART connection is carrying c-video or c-sync on pin 20? Sorry, I don't know much about NES RGB modding.

I have used c-sync with that converter. It was from PCBs through a Vogatek JAMMA to SCART adapter. I believe it at least had a resistor on the c-sync/vid line.

[mvsfan]

normally SCART carries composite video on pin 20. If a TV accepts RGB it is expected to strip composite sync from composite video in order to get the timing. Do you think your SCART connection is carrying c-video or c-sync on pin 20? Sorry, I don't know much about NES RGB modding.

I have used c-sync with that converter. It was from PCBs through a Vogatek JAMMA to SCART adapter. I believe it at least had a resistor on the c-sync/vid line.

in a nes mod, you replace the nes composite ppu, with a rp2co3 playchoice rgb ppu.

on the nes ppu, the pin is composite video. on the playchoice ppu composite video is replaced by a sync line, thus, no composite interference.

theres no composite video on the playchoice ppu, it doesnt exist.

hmm. wait a second. i dont have a resistor on the sync line its just going straight into the scart cable. i do have 220 uf caps on RGB lines though. any idea what value i should try?

[antron]

I don't know. Is the sync from that PPU made to go straight to an arcade monitor?

[Ed Oscuro]

The Man Arasoi has a similar NES setup, and I will ask him about this problem you are having.

[mvsfan]

normally SCART carries composite video on pin 20. If a TV accepts RGB it is expected to strip composite sync from composite video in order to get the timing. Do you think your SCART connection is carrying c-video or c-sync on pin 20? Sorry, I don't know much about NES RGB modding.

I have used c-sync with that converter. It was from PCBs through a Vogatek JAMMA to SCART adapter. I believe it at least had a resistor on the c-sync/vid line.

its got raw sync going from the playchoice ppu sync pin out through scart pin 20. all of my lines inside were built using sheilded mini-coax to eliminate interference.

it does display a half-ass b/w picture, with wavy horizontal lines going through it.

[mvsfan]

normally SCART carries composite video on pin 20. If a TV accepts RGB it is expected to strip composite sync from composite video in order to get the timing. Do you think your SCART connection is carrying c-video or c-sync on pin 20? Sorry, I don't know much about NES RGB modding.

I have used c-sync with that converter. It was from PCBs through a Vogatek JAMMA to SCART adapter. I believe it at least had a resistor on the c-sync/vid line.

its got raw sync going from the playchoice ppu sync pin out through scart pin 20. all of my lines inside were built using sheilded mini-coax to eliminate interference.

it does display a half-ass b/w picture, with wavy horizontal lines going through it.

update: i did some readings today on the sync line with the nes hooked up and its got 3.5A @1.9v.
according to my wega specifications the wega is expecting 1.0v on the sync line.

i hope im right about this. a resistor on the sync line, along with the 220uf cap already there, should give me a good picture. only thing is when i plug it in i come up with .26 ohms of resistance needed to drop the voltage, and that just seems too small. to me, i hope im doing it right. i dont want to buy any more useless parts for this.

[mvsfan]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies. I checked out Craigslist and there seem to be Trinitrons for sale for $20-$50 all the time so I think I'll give that a shot.

Just make sure you get a 4:3 SD wega. the hd wegas are ok for old games but they get some weird artifacts on a fast moving game.

personally, i have a kv32fs120 wega and it is just out of this world great, awesome picture. except for my nes problem. i got it on craigslist for $40.

the only thing that looks better than the wega is the 25" tri-sync makvision i have in my arcade cabinet. but those are costly. the wega is definately the best bang for the buck.

[Necronopticous]

I ended up getting this guy:

It is basically exactly what I wanted.

[mvsfan]

nice find. ive been looking at a cheap 32" pixel pro professional monitor on ebay for the longest time but i cant justify the shipping cost.