How faithful are the Ikaruga and Robotron2084 Xbox360 ports?

[Special World]

I've only ever played the Gamecube versions of each, and I was wondering how the two Xbox 360 games stacked up to those versions (and the arcade versions)? I recall hearing somewhere that Ikaruga was altered for the 360 version, and pictures of Robotron don't look the same, though I have no idea if it plays identically.

Bonus question: Would it be fair to link Ikaruga and Under Defeat? I was planning on writing some shooter recommendations with secondary recs, and I really don't care for Radiant Silvergun, which is the obvious point of reference for Ikaruga. I've heard that G.Rev worked with Treasure on Ikaruga before going on to make Border Down and Under Defeat, so I assume some of the same people worked on both titles.

[AntiFritz]

Afaik ikaruga is missing all its slowdown and one of the bosses (stage 3?) spins backwards.

[Special World]

Afaik ikaruga is missing all its slowdown and one of the bosses (stage 3?) spins backwards.

Do only the arcade and DC versions have slowdown? I don't recall any in the Gamecube version except for the explosion after every boss, which would be pretty negligible if left out.

[nZero]

I've heard that G.Rev worked with Treasure on Ikaruga before going on to make Border Down and Under Defeat, so I assume some of the same people worked on both titles.

Not quite. G.Rev provided assistance with the graphic engine, not game design.

Can you still even buy Robotron on XBLA? Last I heard it was delisted.

[mesh control]

Can you still even buy Robotron on XBLA? Last I heard it was delisted.

No, but if you've purchased it prior to it's removal you can still download it.

[Special World]

I've heard that G.Rev worked with Treasure on Ikaruga before going on to make Border Down and Under Defeat, so I assume some of the same people worked on both titles.

Not quite. G.Rev provided assistance with the graphic engine, not game design.

Can you still even buy Robotron on XBLA? Last I heard it was delisted.

Ah crap. That's double bad news. Well, I guess I can take out the secondary recommendations bits :\ I thought they'd be a good addition, but I can do a solid writeup without them.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Can you still even buy Robotron on XBLA? Last I heard it was delisted.

No, but if you've purchased it prior to it's removal you can still download it.

This is why physical copies are better than digital only for consoles (for gamers at least, companies would love it digital only). /soapbox

[BrianC]

Speaking of disc, it looks like there is a new Midway collection coming to 360 and PS3 that will have Robotron.

[Kiken]

Afaik ikaruga is missing all its slowdown and one of the bosses (stage 3?) spins backwards.

That's just the tip of the iceberg. Every chapter features some weird nonsense that makes it quite different from the NAOMI/DC original or even the GC port.

Wind Laser lock-on glitching is all over the 360 port. They simply do not behave in the same manner they do in the NAOMI/DC rev. It makes much of the game far more difficult to chain.

Bupposou can be damaged before his bumpers close for the first time (this results in absurdly fast kill times in the XBLA version).

The shatter Utatsugumi at the end of chapter 3 have had their pattern shifted... changing how they must be chained.

The bullet spirals in chapter 4 do not spin at the same speed as they do in the other versions.

The large enemies towards the end of chapter 5 (can't recall their names at the moment) have had their hitbox changed which alters how fast they can be killed.

[Softdrink 117]

There's also analog support for movement (eww), and slightly different stage boundaries for player movement (DC/arcade were hitbox constrained, 360 is constrained by some arbitrarily larger amount radially).

And let's not forget the removal of the difficulty select screen, which is the most pointless alteration of all. I can totally imagine the thought process behind that: "Hey! Rather than set the mood for the game by showing the protagonist walking through a broken wasteland toward his battle-scarred ship, let's just save some cash and use a text menu!"

The practice mode is good, but not as good as the GC port, which had the stages broken down into sections and offered slo-mo training options.

I don't mean to bash on the port (it's very playable, and was the way I was introduced to the game), but compared to even the GC release it has some major issues.

Kiken: I believe the giant stage 5 enemies are called Chougenbou.

[Kiken]

And let's not forget the removal of the difficulty select screen, which is the most pointless alteration of all. I can totally imagine the thought process behind that: "Hey! Rather than set the mood for the game by showing the protagonist walking through a broken wasteland toward his battle-scarred ship, let's just save some cash and use a text menu!"

I suppose they thought they were streamlining the game by removing the section with Shinra wandering towards Ikaruga while you selected your difficulty and game mode.

Kiken: I believe the giant stage 5 enemies are called Chougenbou.

Thank you. You are correct.

[Despatche]

didn't atari already "streamline" it enough by removing what little text there was

[AntiFritz]

didn't atari already "streamline" it enough by removing what little text there was

The gamecube port (and probably dreamcast too, not sure as I haven't played it), has no story text at all yeah. It's one thing the xbla port got right though.

[antares]

Can you still even buy Robotron on XBLA? Last I heard it was delisted.

No, but if you've purchased it prior to it's removal you can still download it.

Sure? I bought Smash TV on XBLA and changed my console and hdd in the meantime and it's not possible to re-download it. Robotron is from the same developer and publisher so I assume you can't re-download that one either :/

[RaidenViper]

didn't atari already "streamline" it enough by removing what little text there was

The gamecube port (and probably dreamcast too, not sure as I haven't played it), has no story text at all yeah. It's one thing the xbla port got right though.

The DC port has the story text. And I believe the Japanese GC port has it too.

[colour_thief]

Can you still even buy Robotron on XBLA? Last I heard it was delisted.

No, but if you've purchased it prior to it's removal you can still download it.

Sure? I bought Smash TV on XBLA and changed my console and hdd in the meantime and it's not possible to re-download it. Robotron is from the same developer and publisher so I assume you can't re-download that one either :/

It's a little tricky. If you're using the same XBL account what you have to do is browse through your download history (it remembers everything) from some dashboard option menu, find the delisted game, and then select download again.

[moh]

...and one of the bosses (stage 3?) spins backwards.

are you serious? i find that hilarious for some reason

[AntiFritz]

...and one of the bosses (stage 3?) spins backwards.

are you serious? i find that hilarious for some reason

Yup, turns out its the midboss thing not the actual boss but anyway.

XBLA
Other

It's almost as if treasure do this on purpose...

[mesh control]

Sure? I bought Smash TV on XBLA and changed my console and hdd in the meantime and it's not possible to re-download it. Robotron is from the same developer and publisher so I assume you can't re-download that one either :/

It's a little tricky. If you're using the same XBL account what you have to do is browse through your download history (it remembers everything) from some dashboard option menu, find the delisted game, and then select download again.

This.
The new MS dashboard made it a bigger pain than it should be.

[antares]

It's a little tricky. If you're using the same XBL account what you have to do is browse through your download history (it remembers everything) from some dashboard option menu, find the delisted game, and then select download again.

I know that's how it *should* work, but when I select download again some weird error message pops up.
I remember reading in another forum someone had the same problem and he got the 400 points back from MS after several calls on the support hotline.

[Special World]

Well, from your posts it sounds like Ikaruga 360 is a sloppy port, but not the sort of situation that would ruin the game for somebody who'd never played it before, right? I think I could still list it with some caveats.

Is the 360 Gunstar Heroes good? I like Gunstar Heroes a fair amount, and it would work as an alternate recommendation for Ikaruga. As far as I know, there aren't really any games that feel like Ikaruga except cheap clones. The closest thing I can think of is Espgaluda 2, in that it inverts typical shooter gameplay and has that bullet-cancelling arrange mode. But even that's a stretch, I think, and I'd rather not include any more Cave titles.

[MSZ]

Well, I've never played the arcade/DC/GC version before, so I don't know how accurate the 360 port is. But based on the 1st-place replay I watched, if that guy could pull all those moves on the 360 port, then normal folks like us shouldn't have any problems playing.

[Ghegs]

Well, from your posts it sounds like Ikaruga 360 is a sloppy port, but not the sort of situation that would ruin the game for somebody who'd never played it before, right? I think I could still list it with some caveats.

I think this is important to note with any shmup port. Even if the port isn't 100% the same in comparison to other versions, it can still be a perfectly playable game in its own right. You just have to remember that you might not be able to compare scores with players of the other versions. The forum is quick to judge ports for the tiniest inaccuracies and often forgets that there are many players for whom it won't matter.

[Raytrace]

Afaik ikaruga is missing all its slowdown and one of the bosses (stage 3?) spins backwards.

Do only the arcade and DC versions have slowdown? I don't recall any in the Gamecube version except for the explosion after every boss, which would be pretty negligible if left out.

my european GC Ikaruga ran terribly, but I think it was one of those refresh rate lazy conversion issues or something...

[Some-Mist]

I always just thought it was funny how "purists" would bash ports because of lack of slowdown and backwards changes made to the port - but that's because I only ever played the "ports" for those games.

For ikaruga I've played the PCB and the GC/DC ports, and now I realize how big of a deal it really is after having memorized the PCB/DC/GC versions (which are nearly identical) and then having played the 360 version. The 360 port isn't faithful at all... my timings and paths that I developed in the other versions had no relevance in the 360 version - by timings I mean that the enemies would even show up on the screen at intervals opposite of the GC/DC versions in addition to all the other issues already listed above.

In the end, I played the 360 port a couple of times before I decided it was trash. I was very excited to play it too, because my 360 stick is insanely superior to my dreamcast stick. Still.. it's a fun game and worth playing if you haven't already worked out the PCB/GC/DC versions, but I really don't feel like relearning the whole game again.

[Special World]

Well, that's what I'm saying. I wouldn't really hesitate to recommend somebody a bad port as long as the game was still good. Though obviously I would recommend them a better port if it were widely available.

Then again, I wouldn't recommend XBLA Metal Slug 3 to anyone, because I got spoiled by the Xbox version :\

[To Far Away Times]

Ikaruga is a great game any way you play it, but I wouldn't be tracking down a DC or GC copy over the XBLA version.

[BrianC]

Then again, I wouldn't recommend XBLA Metal Slug 3 to anyone, because I got spoiled by the Xbox version :\

The XBLA version has that bad filter, but I heard it has all of the slowdown intact, while it's missing from the Xbox1 version.

[Special World]

Then again, I wouldn't recommend XBLA Metal Slug 3 to anyone, because I got spoiled by the Xbox version :\

The XBLA version has that bad filter, but I heard it has all of the slowdown intact, while it's missing from the Xbox1 version.

Well, I guess I just got used to the bad port, then!

But I hated having enemies sweat instead of bleed, and I'd grown really used to having the level select option in the Xbox port. It was great to be able to sit down for five minutes and be able to enjoy some piranha plant mayhem.

[BrianC]

But I hated having enemies sweat instead of bleed

ugh. I hate random SNK censorship. The Real Bout collection on PS2 was censored as well.