Goodbye Bioware? Founders Leave

[Friendly]

...exactly 5 years after Bioware was bought by EA.

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/9/1 ... uck-retire

[DJ Incompetent]

Russian Roulette wins again!

[Friendly]

In the game industry, being purchased by EA seems to be a form of exit strategy.

[Jonathan Ingram]

In the game industry, being purchased by EA seems to be a form of exit strategy.

Bioware had already turned into a shitty company even prior to the purchase though. They haven`t really produced a single great game since Baldur`s Gate II.

[Ed Oscuro]

Inclined to agree with that statement...what I've seen of them hasn't really captured my interest, past the Baldur's Gate games anyway. Speaking of which, the original is getting remade and the original engine revamped! That'll be fun to watch.

[Hagane]

Bioware had already turned into a shitty company even prior to the purchase though. They haven`t really produced a single great game since Baldur`s Gate II.

I don't really think that one qualifies as a great game either.

I really liked Mass Effect 2. 3 was such a letdown. KOTOR was sort of nice when I first played it but I doubt I'll ever touch it again. Never got into any of their other games.

[Jonathan Ingram]

I don't really think that one qualifies as a great game either.

This is not a very popular opinion. Baldur`s Gate II is almost universally regarded as one of the best CRPGs ever produced alongside Ultima VII and Planescape Torment.

[DJ Incompetent]

[Hagane]

This is not a very popular opinion. Baldur`s Gate II is almost universally regarded as one of the best CRPGs ever produced alongside Ultima VII and Planescape Torment.

I guess I'm not much of a fan of traditional CRPGs. Too much emphasis on dialogue trees over actual play. I prefer Gothic 2, Risen or The Witcher 2 (or Mass Effect 2 even though it's more of a story heavy action game rather than an actual RPG) over any of those, but I'm probably on the minority as you said.

[Ganelon]

They haven`t really produced a single great game since Baldur`s Gate II.

I'm with you on that. It's good that BioWare is one of the companies responsible for keeping RPGs at the forefront of mainstream gaming—I've bought most of their games in support because even the newer stuff are still decent games—but is that much to be thankful for if what they release now is so limited compared to their classics?

I would say that The Complete Ultima VII and Baldur's Gate II The Collection are the 2 most representative traditional epic top-down CRPGs. It's funny because I think the Gothic and The Witcher series are completely uninteresting; I can't relate to the atmosphere from those games at all. I remember a friend first exclaiming how great Gothic II was but when I tried it, I wondered why I wasn't playing Morrowind—or even better, Daggerfall—instead.

And speaking of Baldur's Gate, the Enhanced Edition for the first game was delayed until November. I'm skeptical how many tangible features Overhaul can add to the game but I do plan on trying it out.

[powersoul]

Off topic, but I didn't know Pandemic ended under EA's umbrella. No wonder Mercenaries 3 ain't coming out.

[Jonathan Ingram]

And speaking of Baldur's Gate, the Enhanced Edition for the first game was delayed until November. I'm skeptical how many tangible features Overhaul can add to the game but I do plan on trying it out.

Are they remaking it in polygonal graphics? I feel that old Infinity Engine games and other isometric RPGs of the era had a certain charm to them that modern RPGs just can`t match(the Divine Divinity to Divine Divinity 2 transition was truly jarring in terms of the graphical style). I heard about the remakes, but I`m not sure what the point is. They already look great and play better than anything that has since been produced.

[Ed Oscuro]

Are they remaking it in polygonal graphics?

It's still using the Infinity Engine - still requires just a PII CPU - no.

[Jonathan Ingram]

Are they remaking it in polygonal graphics?

It's still using the Infinity Engine - still requires just a PII CPU - no.

Excellent. Will have to check it out then.

[Ganelon]

If you're looking for visual charm, you may also want to keep tabs on Project Eternity if you haven't already: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obs ... t-eternity

Obsidian has a questionable track record and it's a shame there's no D&D license but the intent sounds promising.

[Ed Oscuro]

Hunh, Obsidian has an upcoming "Wheel of Time" game.

Wonder how it'll stack up to the Unreal Engine classic (by Legend Entertainment).

[dex]

What's questionable about Obsidian's track record? They made KOTOR2, a game that deconstructed the SW universe and that was better than KOTOR1 in a couple months. Mask of the Betrayer is by far the most adult RPG since Torment, New Vegas was vastly superior to the Bethesda boredom of Fallout 3, and Alpha Protocol is absolutely godlike as far as 'choice' goes. Yeah, their games are often buggy (though New Vegas is much stabler than F3, and Alpha Protocol was good too), but more often than not it's the fault of the publishers rushing the whole thing.

And it's not a shame there's no D&D license. D&D is a really bad RPG system.

[Ed Oscuro]

I thought New Vegas was buggier than FO3 at release - although with the current Xbox 360 patch, I still encountered a few really bad visual bugs in the first game only an hour or two into gameplay (around Arefu, in particular).

[dex]

Fallout 3 was pretty damn buggy at release, too. And within two weeks after release, NV was already stabler than Fallout 3 ever was - and Fallout 3 was already out for years. You'd think they'd have more of a chance to patch stuff up.

[Hagane]

KOTOR 2 was better than 1? It was pretty much the same as 1 system wise without fixing what was bad with it (like the hit detection system), and story wise it falls apart mid game when they run out of budget.

[dex]

The first half of the game wasn't boring, done a million times SW template, though. That counts for a lot. 1 had a story that stretched one twist over 30 hours and had no other substance whatsoever. 2 was at least interesting. Yeah, you can clearly see when LucasArts started meddling in 2 (around the scene in the Jedi Academy ruins), but up to that point it's a much more, let's say, edifying ride. Your mileage may vary, of course.

[Hagane]

Yeah the story was probably better than in the first game up to that point, but the latter half is so rushed and badly done that in the end I like it less than 1. Combat being absolutely mindless (few battles require more than mashing) doesn't help either.

[dex]

Perhaps as a gamer committed to interesting stories and settings more than to fighting and general gameplay, I find the subversive nature of KOTOR2 to my absolute liking. I see your point, though.

Nevertheless, all Obsidian's problems really stem from the publishers having a grip on them (starting with LucasArts, then the metacritic score debacles...). Back in the Black Isle days, these bastards certainly had a vision that exceeded everyone else's (Tormeeeeent!). That's why I have utmost faith that if they can do things their own way, they will deliver awesomeness.

[Ganelon]

Hunh, Obsidian has an upcoming "Wheel of Time" game.

Wonder how it'll stack up to the Unreal Engine classic (by Legend Entertainment).

The next Wheel of Time game in in crazy hiatus with a jumble of shifting license holders. It's been 4 years since a game was first confirmed and there's still no concrete info on it. I hope the decision makers are either waiting for the last book to be released or for some other media tie-up. Wheel of Time hasn't fared well in media either though: I remember hearing about a potential film/TV series (easily more exciting than Game of Thrones) over a decade ago but no luck there.

I'm not sure if you were kidding about the Legend game or not but I'd agree that it's a cult classic. It's not at all guaranteed than Obsidian's offering will beat Legend's although given that Obsidian RPGs tend to have huge scope and WoT has a huge backstory to draw from, I'm confident that the former will.

What's questionable about Obsidian's track record?

Obsidian never replicated its much better days as Black Isle, and I'd say its games overall have strayed far from where they were. From the amazing Planescape: Torment to the great combat-oriented Icewind Dale to its less inspired sequel to the good Neverwinter Nights 2 as Obsidian's first offering (yet less captivating in story than NWN1) to the promising but mechanically un-fun Alpha Protocol (I must be one of the few dummies who pre-ordered the game on the hope that Obsidian could create a new age Deus Ex), the trend is sloping downward. New Vegas doesn't feel any better or worse than Fallout 3 but I'm not a big Fallout fan.

For a developer so focused on RPGs, I wouldn't put any of Obsidian's (post-Black Isle) offerings in my top 10 CRPG list. However, I am optimistic enough to give Obsidian another chance without publisher limitations because of remaining goodwill from the Infinity Engine days. It's clear the folks from Obsidian are adept writers and really are interested in creating an ideal epic CRPG; Project Eternity will be their chance to impress.

As for D&D, I don't care so much for the exact rules as for the universe & creatures that it provides and the immediately relatable stat system.

[dex]

I've personally found Alpha Protocol to be really great. Wouldn't call it a new age Deus Ex since the gameplay was lacking (and let's face it, what DOES compare to Deus Ex?), but the conversational and choice aspect of the game was superb. FO3 did what I thought was impossible and made the Fallout world generic as all hell. I liked the slightly different direction of New Vegas, it felt a lot richer. Also the gameplay was loads better and more balanced and more rewarding. I'd definitely put a couple of Obsidian's offerings in my top 10 - not at the top, of course, but that's because all the places are taken by Black Isle RPGs . And Deus Ex.

And now you made me wonder what my top 10 list would be. Great.

Also for D&D, I never got what was so special about the setting. It's just a section of Tolkien's garden. Ars Magica has a much more inspired setting, even though you could learn actual history from a couple of the supplements to that, since it is literally based in medieval Europe on steroids. It also has a much more inspired system, one just as intuitive as D&D. If anything, one should lament no developer picks up an Ars Magica license for anything because that is pretty much the greatest RPG system created that can reasonably be translated to a video game (makes me wonder how you would make a Nobilis game). What makes me very optimistic for P:E is the fact the main designer has the Ars Magica core book in his design inspiration book photo. I really like that they can make their own system - last time they did that, we got SPECIAL, which is really good.

[Ganelon]

And now Obsidian has already announced an expansion for Project Eternity before we've even seen what the base game looks like. This expansion will be done on Obsidian's dime so it'll be an added cost for everybody else. I'm not a fan of this decision at all.

Now, I think Throne of Bhaal is one of the best expansion packs ever but that's expected from a retail release. It's horrible to promise crowdfundees their dreams in Project Eternity and then mention later on that the princess is in another castle. Anything that must be added after the fact can be put into a full sequel. Project Eternity is the most successful Kickstarter video game yet; is there really not enough money to put all current visions into the base game?

I also don't understand the nonchalant attitude towards this news from certain RPG communities. It almost seems as if Infinity Engine nostalgia has weakened fans' minds. There was another Kickstarter project called An Old-School RPG that started last week. It was an RPG with almost no details given (despite strong designer pedigree) that got rightfully blasted for not including any sense of what the RPG was going to be about besides "old-school." The creators have fleshed it out a bit more as a Wizardry-inspired first-person RPG with turn-based combat, which sounds great to my ears, but the project is still getting chewed out from CRPG fans and doesn't look like it'll reach its goal. It almost sounds as if today's CRPG fans don't really care for an old-school first-person dungeon crawler. This situation could be related to how Wizardry is respected by all as a groundbreaking and hardcore series but has few western fans who'll support the games with their money.

And on another CRPG point, Larian Studios announced Divinity Anthology, which will include the "trilogy" of Divine Divinity, Beyond Divinity, and Divinity II with added tools. I'm very partial towards the Divinity series for some reason and will definitely be picking this collection up.

[Jonathan Ingram]

I`m surprised Larian Studios still exists, to be honest. I was under assumption that Divinity II didn`t do very well. Wasn`t a big fan of that game personally. But the first one is among my all time favorites. The story is atrocious, but as far as the looks and the gameplay are concerned, it`s one of the best. Wish they made another game in this style.

P.S. Did anyone notice how the first village in Divine Divinity was quite a bit more interactive than the rest of the game?

[Ganelon]

Yeah, having the first city be more detailed than most others seems to be common practice in RPGs—eastern or western—I've played.

Anyway, GOG is actually holding a "pay what you want" promotion for Divine Divinity right now: http://www.gog.com/divinity

Since the minimum is $0.01, everyone has a chance to try it out.

[Ed Oscuro]

I've personally found Alpha Protocol to be really great. Wouldn't call it a new age Deus Ex since the gameplay was lacking (and let's face it, what DOES compare to Deus Ex?)

Thief for sure (the arrows system and limited ammo allows combat to be far less of a chore than DX made it), and the new game Dishonored is looking nifty too.

DX didn't get less detailed as time went on, but you did backtrack a lot in the early stages. That is probably part of the reason why it took me so long to get back to it - some boredom with the New York settings. I do find that as a game goes on you often find your attention span getting a bit tighter, probably in part because you figure some things out (i.e. I don't need all the loaves of bread, and I might have enough multitools, so I will stop checking every last corner for a while until I need to; the original DX is also quite harsh about whether spending a multitool or lockpick, or an explosive for tougher doors, is worthwhile; often you find out there's just some shitty ammo for a weapon you didn't need).

[DirtyMonk]

The first half of the game wasn't boring, done a million times SW template, though. That counts for a lot. 1 had a story that stretched one twist over 30 hours and had no other substance whatsoever. 2 was at least interesting. Yeah, you can clearly see when LucasArts started meddling in 2 (around the scene in the Jedi Academy ruins), but up to that point it's a much more, let's say, edifying ride. Your mileage may vary, of course.

Yeah the story was probably better than in the first game up to that point, but the latter half is so rushed and badly done that in the end I like it less than 1. Combat being absolutely mindless (few battles require more than mashing) doesn't help either.

In regards to KOTOR 2, in case you guys might have missed it, a group of modders released a content restoration patch that restores a huge chunk of missing content cut from the game due their being forced to rush it to completion, which includes a more satisfying conclusion from what I've heard. It makes the game MUCH better, esp. if it's your first time playing though (in fact, I'm playing through it right now for the first time, and I absolutely love it). You can find it here:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-sith-lord ... /downloads