Pointless Hyper Duel collector interview in Games Retro mag

[futurematt5]

How pointless is this...

Games TM just released a new Retro volume in the UK, with some really good little features including a double page on Hyper Duel for the Saturn, which is one of my all time favourites on the platform.

But where they hell do they find these collectors to interview, taking up a quarter of the spread? This guy proudly holds up his copy, tells us how it took him four years to find a reasonably priced copy and paid £140 from Genki ... well that was the first thing that annoyed me as anyone can find a copy on ebay for less than that.

More annoying still was his response to the question "do you play it" - answer "not really, I prefer Thunderforce 3".

For goodness sake there must be a thousand grateful Hyper Duel owners out there - have some flipping sense and get one that has actually played the frikkin' game!!

Thanks for listening.

[BIL]

Couldn't imagine owning a pricey game like Hyper Duel if I rated it below TFIII. Which I sure as hell don't... TFIII is nice but HD (SS ver) is mecha shooting porn.

Then again I'm not a collector. Whee, I don't buy games I don't like!

[Obiwanshinobi]

Even having played Hyper Duel (Saturn mode, indeed the better half of that bundle), I'm not sure if I want to own in THAT badly. There's just too many games I already bought but have yet to play properly around. Besides, THE expensive shmup I crave is Zanac X Zanac, then maybe Eliminate Down (but the emulation is so good...).
Hyper Duel for the Saturn is simply too good to remain a collector's item anymore. I wonder if the arcade rom could be hacked properly...

[Illyrian]

What the fuck is Hyper Duel?

[KAI]

This is Hyper Duel

[HydrogLox]

Saturn shooter review: Hyper Duel (futurematt5)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNShWrlLwys

[Ed Oscuro]

They should totally do an interview with me. Look, here's a huge collection of X68000 stuff going back a decade that's NEVER BEEN PLAYED LOL

not to mention all the rare games stacked up in odd places. I have a like-new Taromaru that's just sitting in my computer desk, lol

totally proud of all this. *closed fist salute*

Hyper Duel is one of these games: I got it recently, haven't played, and might be in the cards to trade it already for something else pretty awesome. We'll see. I can always buy another HD down the line.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Dude, the Saturn Mode is something else. Mech porn indeed. Funnily enough, I don't think it's a looker in the sense Thunder Force IV and Eliminate Down are, but... Just play it to see (and hear!) the first boss go off. I hope you have means to make it RGB on a CRT.

[spadgy]

I may be wrong now, but I think it was the case that Retro Gamer typically only commission freelancer feature contributions if that freelancer has the interviews secured/in the bag. that might explain something (not that I know a freelancer submitted this piece to the mag).

And it remains a great magazine thriving in a tough market for print gaming magazines.

And I want Hyper Dual.

[Strider77]

I bought Hyper Duel from NCS brand new for 50.00. Had it on pre-order. So funny how things go up ect after the years roll by. Just like Shinrei Jusatsushi Taroumaru (Psychic Killer Taromaru) on the Saturn. Found that in a local shop for 40.00 bucks complete and in new shape.

[ciox]

This is Hyper Duel

Type A totally has this.

[moh]

oh god, I cant stand when people pay big bucks for a game and dont play it...

okay, if you're picking up a cheap game, whatever, but hyper duel? thats an AMAZING game.

so many douchey collectors..

[Obiwanshinobi]

Aw come on, he bought it because so many folks were too cool to pay for the game that can be just pirated instead. He just had mercy. Things like that make feel a bit better about this kind of freeloading.
Whenever internet people who find some old game good enough to play it (but not to pay an arm and a leg for it only to sit on their shelf staring at them) start pointing fingers, I think I sorta see better what Jesus did there. We can be so righteous about someone else's business...

[scrilla4rella]

Dang, this collector sounds like total d----bag. The difficulty of Hyper Duel is probably too high for him. Awesome reviews Matt! I hope revisit the Saturn again soon.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I'm glad game collectors are out there because I believe they keep games in better condition than gamers do. They keep them for me so to speak (some day they will need money I will have to pay for their games).
I buy sealed games whenever possible not to keep them sealed, but to make sure they are in the best condition around (doesn't always work this way, but usually does). Moreover, I'm reluctant to sell games I feel I should set free because I've been keeping them unscathed and they deserve to remain unscathed.

[mdl]

I'm glad game collectors are out there because I believe they keep games in better condition than gamers do. They keep them for me so to speak (some day they will need money I will have to pay for their games).
I buy sealed games whenever possible not to keep them sealed, but to make sure they are in the best condition around (doesn't always work this way, but usually does). Moreover, I'm reluctant to sell games I feel I should set free because I've been keeping them unscathed and they deserve to remain unscathed.

Is this a joke?

There is not one desirable console game, PCB, or piece of hardware whose price has not ballooned in the past five years thanks to "collectors" and retro-fetishist idiots who care more about throwing around terms like "retro" and "8-bit" and buying up everything for any price, often so that they can put their latest "score" on a pedestal and brag about it on the internet instead of actually playing it. The majority of these people are not preservationists as you seem to believe and will throw out PCBs/hardware when they inevitably break or malfunction due to old age, lacking the skills, knowledge, or attention span to fix them. Do you think many of these people have their collections insured? If they get hit by a truck tomorrow, do you think their next of kin know what the value of any of it is rather than giving it off to some shop to melt down for metal reclamation? Hoarders and speculators are going to ensure that by the next century, most of this stuff will be at the bottom of a landfill--good thing they're keeping their PCBs in boxes full of styrofoam packing peanuts in the meantime so they can die from ESD first.

Try searching some old Trading Station threads and you'll have an unpleasant surprise as to just how bad it's gotten in the past few years. This hobby was much more fun before it was flooded with money-driven twats treating everything they bought as an "investment" (especially prototype hoarders, don't get me started) instead of just playing the goddamn games.

[Strider77]

Try searching some old Trading Station threads and you'll have an unpleasant surprise as to just how bad it's gotten in the past few years. This hobby was much more fun before it was flooded with money-driven twats treating everything they bought as an "investment" (especially prototype hoarders, don't get me started) instead of just playing the goddamn games.

Some shit is expensive...

It's the same with EVERYTHING... some cars are worth more now than then. Some are worth next to nothing. The hobby is just as fun now as then. There are plenty of games that aren't worth shit and are way more fun than expensive ones. Then there are some ecpensive ones that are now easy to play via emulation or live/psn.

I have a ton of stuff that has skyrocketed in price... but most of it I bought when it came out new. Like Hyper Duel, bought it for 50.00 new. I've kept it in good mint shape and I've played it. I also have Strider on the mega drive, it ain't worth shit but I have kept it in mint shape and played the hell out of it.

You act like folks who have a large collection are more prone to treat their stuff like crap... I have never met one like that in person except for 2 instances (even then one's stuff was always busted when they got it). It's usually the casual folks who leave discs out of the case all over the place and their consoles on over night ect.

Instead of getting your panties in a knot on why not "just play the goddamned games", with a PC there is nothing to keep you from doing that. Unless you feel the need to have a copy on your shelf, if that's the case you are just as bad but with a smaller bank account. There is nothing keeping you from playing this stuff in this day and age, however owning an original copy is another story that is reliant on your income.

No different than with comics or books... You can read anything you want, but owning a 1st pressing is another story.

No one is robbing you of anything other than owning a first pressing.

[Ed Oscuro]

Try searching some old Trading Station threads and you'll have an unpleasant surprise as to just how bad it's gotten in the past few years. This hobby was much more fun before it was flooded with money-driven twats treating everything they bought as an "investment" (especially prototype hoarders, don't get me started) instead of just playing the goddamn games.

I agree, it was much better when people sold everything at a loss. Clearly, the law of supply & demand is subservient to my narrow interests.

There have been some people lately (even bugging me) making some pretty crazy offers for games, but eh, I've seen it before. I mean, how long ago are you talking about? Back in 2003 it felt like some games were starting to get way too expensive, even back then. People who were importing in the '90s would definitely attest to that.

[mdl]

It's the same with EVERYTHING... some cars are worth more now than then. Some are worth next to nothing. The hobby is just as fun now as then. There are plenty of games that aren't worth shit and are way more fun than expensive ones. Then there are some ecpensive ones that are now easy to play via emulation or live/psn.

That comparison only holds part of the way. A car has utility, and any working car is as good as any other working car for the task for which most people use it (going places, hauling their groceries home, whatever). But you wouldn't tell someone they can just play Gradius instead when they want to play Gunnail.

Instead of getting your panties in a knot on why not "just play the goddamned games", with a PC there is nothing to keep you from doing that. Unless you feel the need to have a copy on your shelf, if that's the case you are just as bad but with a smaller bank account. There is nothing keeping you from playing this stuff in this day and age, however owning an original copy is another story that is reliant on your income.

As far as preservation is concerned, console and computer games are in a pretty good state. Nearly every commercially-released game for every system has been dumped (though there remains much work to be done for scanning boxes, manuals, etc.), and once a console is emulated accurately, you've taken care of hundreds or thousands of games. This is not the case with PCBs, many of which are emulated poorly or not at all, many of which are held by obnoxious individuals like Scott Evans who own multiple copies of games that nobody else has, deigning only to let the rabble play them twice a year at California Extreme--never mind the fact that releasing dumps doesn't devalue originals, as has been demonstrated every single time a rare game/prototype is finally released or leaked and someone still buys the physical item for the price of a first-class international flight or a new car. The kinds of people who pay five-digit sums for this stuff don't care about playing games; they care about having trophy objects.

[Ed Oscuro]

itt: missing the point

Sure, people hoarding prototypes do annoy me when they then have so much shit in their control that they can't be a good steward of it and take offense to suggestions they should look into getting stuff dumped. That doesn't apply to all collectors, obviously.

[mdl]

I agree, it was much better when people sold everything at a loss. Clearly, the law of supply & demand is subservient to my narrow interests.

Why does everything have to be about money?

Before I moved to Tokyo, I had three enormous CRTs. Despite three separate drives over the course of a few months and well over 1000 miles added to my odometer to get them, I listed each one for the price at which I had acquired it. When there were no takers, I refused to let their fate become the dump. Despite being hellishly busy in the last few days of trying to move before the sale closed on my house, instead of tossing them on the curb, I posted to around seven or eight forums and spent time answering PMs to find homes for them. I bent over backwards to give them away for free, arranging for temporary storage for at least one of them before driving it another 150 miles one way, only asking for the cost of gas there and back to cover my expenses in delivering it. I was not rich then, and I have since taken a job where I make 1/3 as much as I did then. If I were put in the same position again where I couldn't sell them for a reasonable price, I would do the exact same thing.

We (as a community in general, not specifically this forum) could treat each other with respect. Instead, we behave like bankers. Sad.

There have been some people lately (even bugging me) making some pretty crazy offers for games, but eh, I've seen it before. I mean, how long ago are you talking about? Back in 2003 it felt like some games were starting to get way too expensive, even back then. People who were importing in the '90s would definitely attest to that.

You are correct, but like I said, just in the past five years, prices seem to have risen far, far more than they did throughout the entire 90s up until 07-08ish.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I'm pretty sure most gamers on here have more games than they can handle. Those games could be played by someone right now. Someone who also has too many games to not feel ridiculous about pirating.
If this isn't collecting, what is it? Paying for right to choose? How's that any better than collecting? In other words, how getting your kicks out of right to choose is better than getting as much kick out of simply owning stuff?
Not letting other people dump roms off your PCBs isn't all that different from marriage. Many men have wives I'd do, but I cannot (without feeling slightly wrong about it anyway). Solution - shag free women, play cheap games (neglecting either is what I call wrong). I mean, if a collector cherishes his collection to the point of selfishness, it's silly and barbaric, but I heard about far wronger kinds of "love".

[Strider77]

That comparison only holds part of the way. A car has utility, and any working car is as good as any other working car for the task for which most people use it (going places, hauling their groceries home, whatever). But you wouldn't tell someone they can just play Gradius instead when they want to play Gunnail.

I would tell someone that I don't have much pitty if you want a ferrari but can only get a Lamborghini or vice versa. We all can't have it all. And if you are spending more time dwelling on that then driving, you don't really enjoy driving as much as you do having what you want.

Somethings are always going to be difficult to get, is my point. Doesn't mean you have to let it ruin what you can get/enjoy. If you are, you are kinda being what you were moaning about....

[mdl]

I'm pretty sure most gamers on here have more games than they can handle. Those games could be played by someone right now.

I don't begrudge anybody the right to own a giant pile of games. It's when people spend more time buying and trying to "fill gaps" in their collection than playing that something is wrong, and every time someone justifies selling a game at a huge profit for themselves because that's the "market value", it perpetuates the problem. Once you narrow things down to a common language, a shared interest, and enough of a devotion to the interest that you're part of some sort of community about it, the world gets pretty small, and within that scope people can afford to trade things at lower prices. In this situation, if someone abuses the trust of the community, like the jackass on the PCEFX forums who bought multiple cheap copies of US Magical Chase with community tips, only to turn around and eBay them, they rightfully get made into a pariah.

Or, you can take an example right here at home, with the folks who have rigged auctions with their buddies to ensure nobody else can win anything and that own 10+ DDP PCBs (other famous hoarder targets include Raiden II, DDP DOJ, and Battle Garegga).

Not letting other people dump roms off your PCBs isn't all that different from marriage. Many men have wifes I'd do, but I cannot (without feeling slightly wrong about it anyway).

A vagina is not a cultural artifact. Unlike the current PCB trend, its value also depreciates over time.

[Strider77]

Well, buying up things just to flip them is a different matter. If you are out in the wild and it's there it can become a grey area. Like what Gaijinpunch does... I view that more as a service. But what Vilent Ken did was shitty with cave PCBs.

[Obiwanshinobi]

A vagina is not a cultural artifact.

Marriage is.

[trap15]

It's still not a valid comparison at all.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Technically every woman I lust for could do me a favour, but somebody who is not me decided some of them are not for me. They didn't even ask me! How arbitrary.

[Strider77]

Just emulate Mortal Kombat.

[KAI]

Marriage is a hyper duel.