Final Fantasy IV Smiles: Cecil and Kain

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JoshuaBizich
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:49 pm

Final Fantasy IV Smiles: Cecil and Kain

Post by JoshuaBizich »

Hello,

Wanted to showcase my new game I just released. Spent over a year on this alone.

What is it?
Final Fantasy = Shooter.

Features 2p co-op and an in depth scoring system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDBA4ja1kQ8
Big Score at 4:30
Boss Battle at 8:30

download at:
http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/games/2048 ... l-and-kain

Hope you guys like it!
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BareKnuckleRoo
Posts: 6651
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:01 am
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: Final Fantasy IV Smiles: Cecil and Kain

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Interesting to see a Deathsmiles-style shmup. Just started playing, couple of things:

* The 2P coop option is a nice touch that's rarely seen in PC shmups.

* Intro screen takes a while to skip when you start up the game. Same goes for if you go into the options screen to mess with the controls, exiting back it takes way too long for the menu to reappear. You're thrust to this same screen if you gameover.

* No in-game menu option to restart/go back to the main menu. Pause doesn't give an option screen and hitting ESC immediately closes the game entirely.

* The Mini/Piggy items that kill you instantly if you touch them are a tad annoying, especially if you open a huge cluster of chests - the readme doesn't seem to mention them, but it could just be me. You do seem to be invulnerable to them in shadow mode though...? It's also a bit irritating how chests float around erratically and block your shots; you can end up having a 'bad' item pop out and kill you because you were shooting beside a chest. I find getting rid of the items asap by switching to shadow or bombing helps, but it's annoying to try and quickly toggle shadow only to shoot and kill something while toggling (because you need to press both shot buttons, which invariably causes you to shoot left), thus spawing the revenge ghosts. A single, non-shoot button toggle
Kakusei style might help make shadow mode use friendlier.

Edit: apparently they steal your bombs. Not cool. :/


* Cecil and Kain don't seem to play differently, but it seems you can't play single-player with Kain, starting the game always forces 1P to start as Cecil and Kain as 2P. If you wanted to play Kain you'd have to suiicide Cecil or something. Character select would be a nice touch.

* "Draw you weapons" - typo in the opening level. The first level also seems to be very, very boring, takes forever for things to intensify (the text isn't skippable at all Giga-Wing style, enemy waves are dull even on Hard Type). Thankfully you can skip the slow scrolling text between st1 and st2.

* Reminds me of Yagawa's games - bombing seems to be important for scoring against the suicide enemies.

* The heart-shaped hitbox indicator is a tad misleading. Bullets hit before even touching it and the hitbox feels quite large, although the same seems to apply to bullets.

* I know it's probably complicated to add, but Deathsmiles had indicators showing what direction new enemies popped in from, helpful since enemies attack from all sides, unlike most shmups where you only shoot in one direction and enemies from behind you are uncommon/rare. If you're still working on the game it would be a nice addition.

* You don't seem to be invulnerable when bombing. At least I know I've died to... something (no idea what) when bombing and trying to use the bomb time to collect a ton of point items.

* Deaths seem to be more due to touching the enemies' giant hitboxes or those stupid instadeath 'bad' ailment items rather than bullets. Could be I still suck at the game but it feels... off?

Interesting game and scoring ideas, but it needs a bit of polish.
JoshuaBizich
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:49 pm

Re: Final Fantasy IV Smiles: Cecil and Kain

Post by JoshuaBizich »

Thank you so much for your reply. This was exactly what I wanted and needed to read.
Your comments will help me become a better developer and make my games better.
You spent some time and energy writing all of that up, and I really appreciate it!
Thank you again!

Some quick notes...

I knew I was going to stop developing for a couple months so I decided to release this the way it was.
Have a long list of games to finally play and this is the season for new releases.
I started to realize in order to make some major changes to the game, I would need to scrap where I was in development.
I thought what a waste! So I decided to release the game in the state it was in.

You bring up some very interesting and good points.

"Draw you weapons" - Oh, this one hurts. I can't believe I did this! Played thru that a 1000 times... I'm just an idiot for that.


BareknuckleRoo said:
"The first level also seems to be very, very boring, takes forever for things to intensify (the text isn't skippable at all Giga-Wing style, enemy waves are dull even on Hard Type). Thankfully you can skip the slow scrolling text between st1 and st2."
Yeah, I agree. Was meant to be a kind of tutorial, taking it slow, giving the player a chance to breathe between waves. Actually is one of the reasons I put a level select in. So people could skip that level if they wish. Plus it's a good idea.


BareknuckleRoo said:
"You don't seem to be invulnerable when bombing."
I agree. Needs changed. Done easily. Next game will have it.


BareknuckleRoo said:
"Cecil and Kain don't seem to play differently, but it seems you can't play single-player with Kain, starting the game always forces 1P to start as Cecil and Kain as 2P. If you wanted to play Kain you'd have to suicide Cecil or something. Character select would be a nice touch."
Big time agree. I didn't plan on this in the beginning. Just was happy to get 2 players working on the screen at the same time! To change this was to scrap where I was. Next game they will be different and have a better shot/focus system that is in there now. I hope to have multiple characters to choose from.


BareknuckleRoo said:
"No in-game menu option to restart/go back to the main menu."
Yep, next time around.



BareknuckleRoo said:
"Deathsmiles had indicators showing what direction new enemies popped in."
YES! This is a great idea. Could have easily done this.


BareknuckleRoo said:
"You don't seem to be invulnerable when bombing."
Yeah, should have changed that. Clears the bullets, but running in to an enemy will still kill you.



BareknuckleRoo said:
"The Mini/Piggy items that kill you instantly if you touch them... Edit: apparently they steal your bombs. Not cool. :/"
Only one I disagree on with ya. You get the status ailments if you shoot the chest with a wrong shot. Red chest = shot. Blue chest = focus. Shoot them with the wrong type and you get status ailments. They will steal your bombs, if you don't have any bombs they will kill you.
I still like this. Kind of a penalty if you don't know what your doing. They could use polish on how they are dispersed. They do disappear quicker than the loot. I always thought of it as springing the trap on the chest for unlocking it with the wrong kind of shot.


Future thoughts:

Character select - they will all play,look differently and have a different bomb animation.
Less levels - short quicker intense levels.
No story - just shmup. Maybe just some flavor text.
Skip right in to the game fast. Much faster menus. Agree with you there too.


It was my 2nd game I made. Still pretty fresh at this but quickly learning.
Once again, thank you for your feedback!
In the end it will help me very much!
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Location: Southern Ontario

Re: Final Fantasy IV Smiles: Cecil and Kain

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

JoshuaBizich wrote:Actually is one of the reasons I put a level select in. So people could skip that level if they wish. Plus it's a good idea.
Unfortunately it seems you have to deal with the first level if you want to reach the true final level as it doesn't show up in Hard Type via level select. :(
Only one I disagree on with ya. You get the status ailments if you shoot the chest with a wrong shot. Red chest = shot. Blue chest = focus. Shoot them with the wrong type and you get status ailments. They will steal your bombs, if you don't have any bombs they will kill you. I still like this. Kind of a penalty if you don't know what your doing. They could use polish on how they are dispersed. They do disappear quicker than the loot. I always thought of it as springing the trap on the chest for unlocking it with the wrong kind of shot.
I'm aware of having to shoot the chests with the right shot (although the red chests flash blue-white when hit, so it can be difficult to tell in a hectic situation if you're wrongshotting or not) but the issue is that you're penalized rather harshly, especially considering how much more powerful and thus useful the focused shot is.

Have you ever played Mushihimesama Futari? I imagine you have; it does a better job of implementing a 'shoot with the right type' system than even Deathsmiles did (which comes down to having to memorize what to shoot every enemy with, not cool). Futari simply has a counter that changes at fixed intervals and the 'right' shot is based on what color the counter is. Killing enemies with the wrong shot results in a score penalty, but if you need the extra damage to safely get through a section or the extra speed you can use the 'wrong' shot type without suddenly filling the screen with items that sap your precious bomb counter. You simply get a score penalty. Also, you can damage enemies as much as you like with the 'wrong' shot as much as you like - all that matters is landing the kill with the right shot type.

The status items would have been less of an issue if bombing or initating shadow mode let you touch them and get rid of them without penalty. Lacking any way of getting rid of them really was what made them problematic I think.

I don't necessarily think plot is bad in a shmup, especially if it's used well. Giga Wing 1 & 2 are awesome for this; the plot changes depending on character (including a bad and good ending depending on whether you manage to 1cc the game, good initiates a TLB fight), playing 2P coop has its own text depending on the characters you're both playing and the text is quickly skipped if you don't want to read any. The last point is the most important though; shmups are the sort of game where to get a good run you often have to restart several times, so any plot text/cutscenes have to be skippable or you end up waiting seeing the same text over and over.
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Lord Satori
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Re: Final Fantasy IV Smiles: Cecil and Kain

Post by Lord Satori »

this seems pretty cool. not sure I would've chosen FFIV though...
BryanM wrote:You're trapped in a haunted house. There's a ghost. It wants to eat your friends and have sex with your cat. When forced to decide between the lives of your friends and the chastity of your kitty, you choose the cat.
JoshuaBizich
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Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:49 pm

Re: Final Fantasy IV Smiles: Cecil and Kain

Post by JoshuaBizich »

Good post again.

Long time since I played Futari. Have played most of the Cave games. Got the imports of Espagaluda II and Mushihime-sama Futari for 360. Then had to import Dodonpachi from the UK. I'm in the US. I hope they keep coming region free. Going to go back and check Futari again.

Another good point. Maybe while in Shadow mode, you can collect the ailments or just cancel them out.

Just thought of this... What if you filled the screen with blue chests. Then destoryed them all with the wrong shot to fill up the screen with ailments. Now let's say there is a certain number of ailments on the screen. Say 50. If 50 ailments on screen at once, have them change color or something and then at this time go in to shadow mode, collect for a huge score. You would need to work to get that number of ailments on the screen at once. This could just offer a different avenue for scoring.

I'm starting to love what I am doing. It's really what is in my head. I am at the point where if I can think about it, then I know I can implement it to the game. When you first start, it's like "How do I do this?" Now it's "What do I want to do?"

You my friend have given much to consider. I thank you once again.

Speaking of story, ever play Samurai Aces? I think that is the one. Has been a long time. I played it on MAME. There is a character you can play. He wants to save his sister I think and she is missing. So all game you are destroying fortresses and killing bad guys. You get to the end and she isn't there. Later you find out she was out shopping the whole time! Left my jaw on the floor when I saw that for the first time. LOL.
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