How many buttons should a vertical cabinet have?

[ninn]

There will be a coin slot for each player, and they'll be on top of the control panel, like a candy cab.

candys' just got one coin slot.

[Tokyo-J]

I like 4 across the best.

However my 2 Vert Cabs have 6 button layout. Egret II and Naomi Uni.

[rCadeGaming]

candys' just got one coin slot.

Yeah I know. I just meant that they'll be on the top like a candy, not on the front like an American cab.

[t0yrobo]

I still don't get the point of having 7 buttons when you won't use 4 of them for 90% of vert games, and the 6 button layout has been standard for many years, but whatever. Just be careful that you don't turn it into a big shit show of buttons and knobs, imo console cabs are more trouble than they're worth especially if there's going to be a computer in there anyways. Run a 360 and a pc w/ emulators for everything, fuck all the other consoles they're not worth the trouble.

[rCadeGaming]

I still don't get the point of having 7 buttons when you won't use 4 of them for 90% of vert games, and the 6 button layout has been standard for many years, but whatever. Just be careful that you don't turn it into a big shit show of buttons and knobs, imo console cabs are more trouble than they're worth especially if there's going to be a computer in there anyways. Run a 360 and a pc w/ emulators for everything, fuck all the other consoles they're not worth the trouble.

If you won't use four buttons for 90% of vertical games, then you will use four buttons for 10% of vertical games. How about if there's even one great game in that 10%? Why disable it? That extra button is not hurting anything. Add the button, hurt nothing; remove the button, remove the ability to play a certain game the way I want to.

Also as I said, all of those knobs and switches and complicated stuff will hidden under a locked door, so an average user won't have to bother with it.

Robo, I'm not saying you specifically did this but it does happen: please don't attack my reasoning if you haven't read the whole thread. Obviously I'm open to arguments if I'm asking these questions on a forum, and I enjoy them from anyone presenting a logical and informed argument, but I think sometimes people skim over the thread and then raise questions that have already been answered more than once.

As for emulators vs. real hardware, that's a preference too, and I greatly prefer real hardware. It's not easy to get all of those systems (especially anything post-Dreamcast) running in proper native resolution with authentic sound and no input lag on a PC. Furthermore, I don't think it's worth the trouble when I like collecting the physical hardware and games. It's fun to learn about and collect these things. It's fun to mod the real hardware for things like RGB output on a PC Engine, or a region switch on a Super Nintendo. It's fun building a switching circuit, and working with analog video, and sync separator chips, and video processors.

Playing something on an emulator lacks the warmth and authenticity of the real thing, it feels cold and dead to me. If you don't feel this, then good for you, enjoying saving lots of money. I do feel it though.

The only reasons I'm using MAME to emulate arcade games are:
1. Although I like collecting, I don't have the space for an authentic dedicated cab of everything I like.
2. Some PCB's are very expensive and I don't have the money to collect a lot those right now either.
3. I am able to get these games running perfectly in MAME in native resolution.
4. It allows hundreds of arcade games to be selected from a list instead of having to swap a PCB, which is a little less convenient than changing a cartridge or a disc.
5. The front-end can be a lot cleaner if it's just dealing with MAME and not a whole bunch of emulators.

I may start collecting PCB's later, so I'll be building in the capability to install them in the cabinet as well.

[shmuppyLove]

4. It allows hundreds of arcade games to be selected from a list instead of having to swap a PCB, which is a little less convenient than changing a cartridge or a disc.

A bit OT, but I would submit that changing PCBs is easier than trying to get multiple systems working in one cab, because of JAMMA standards.

With that said though, I know there are PCBs around that are a bit out-of-the-norm and even though they're JAMMA compliant give people some problems. SPI stuff I think can be especially problematic with it's odd refresh rate.

[emphatic]

Having just one great game in your cab is 1 billion times better than having thousands of mediocre ones.

[rCadeGaming]

Well, first of all you're talking about PCB's vs. consoles, that post was about consoles vs. MAME. Obviously, enough PCB's can be a replacement for MAME, but PCB's can not replace consoles because there are plenty of console-exclusive games.

Anyhow to your point, yes, getting that many consoles working on one cab is difficult during the build; but the challenge is fun and once the cabinet is done that's irrelevant. The end result when you're playing it is that swapping a cartridge/disc and turning one switch to select a console is much more convenient than swapping a PCB.

Now, you could build a circuit to change between PCB's with the flip of a switch as well. The thing is you're kind of limited by how many PCB's can fit in the cabinet, and space is already tight with the PC, the console switching circuit, some video processors, several controller PCB's, an audio amp, the coin bin, etc.

The consoles will just sit on shelves next to the cabinet, because you need to get at them and they'd never all fit inside anyway. I could build some kind of external housing that held a lot of PCB's with their power supply and switching circuit, and this would connect to the cabinet by wire just like another console. I don't know how big and ugly it would have to be and if it would be worth it, but it's something to think about.

And yeah, I have to watch out for connections for extra buttons in addition to normal JAMMA, and weird resolutions and refresh rates and that kind of stuff.

Having just one great game in your cab is 1 billion times better than having thousands of mediocre ones.

Yeah, but there's not just one great game out there, there are dozens of great games out there. Having dozens of great games in your cabs is dozens of times better than having one great one

[t0yrobo]

I still don't get the point of having 7 buttons when you won't use 4 of them for 90% of vert games, and the 6 button layout has been standard for many years, but whatever. Just be careful that you don't turn it into a big shit show of buttons and knobs, imo console cabs are more trouble than they're worth especially if there's going to be a computer in there anyways. Run a 360 and a pc w/ emulators for everything, fuck all the other consoles they're not worth the trouble.

If you won't use four buttons for 90% of vertical games, then you will use four buttons for 10% of vertical games. How about if there's even one great game in that 10%? Why disable it? That extra button is not hurting anything. Add the button, hurt nothing; remove the button, remove the ability to play a certain game the way I want to.

Also as I said, all of those knobs and switches and complicated stuff will hidden under a locked door, so an average user won't have to bother with it.

Robo, I'm not saying you specifically did this but it does happen: please don't attack my reasoning if you haven't read the whole thread. Obviously I'm open to arguments if I'm asking these questions on a forum, and I enjoy them from anyone presenting a logical and informed argument, but I think sometimes people skim over the thread and then raise questions that have already been answered more than once.

As for emulators vs. real hardware, that's a preference too, and I greatly prefer real hardware. It's not easy to get all of those systems (especially anything post-Dreamcast) running in proper native resolution with authentic sound and no input lag on a PC. Furthermore, I don't think it's worth the trouble when I like collecting the physical hardware and games. It's fun to learn about and collect these things. It's fun to mod the real hardware for things like RGB output on a PC Engine, or a region switch on a Super Nintendo. It's fun building a switching circuit, and working with analog video, and sync separator chips, and video processors.

Playing something on an emulator lacks the warmth and authenticity of the real thing, it feels cold and dead to me. If you don't feel this, then good for you, enjoying saving lots of money. I do feel it though.

The only reasons I'm using MAME to emulate arcade games are:
1. Although I like collecting, I don't have the space for an authentic dedicated cab of everything I like.
2. Some PCB's are very expensive and I don't have the money to collect a lot those right now either.
3. I am able to get these games running perfectly in MAME in native resolution.
4. It allows hundreds of arcade games to be selected from a list instead of having to swap a PCB, which is a little less convenient than changing a cartridge or a disc.
5. The front-end can be a lot cleaner if it's just dealing with MAME and not a whole bunch of emulators.

I may start collecting PCB's later, so I'll be building in the capability to install them in the cabinet as well.

I read why you prefer the button layout you use and I understand why some people have a preference for real consoles over emulation. That's all fine, it's your project so you should be catering to your own preferences.

Stopping short of full on philosophizing about design, my point is some of the most difficult decisions are about what to not include, and just because you can do something doesn't necessarily mean that you should. It's my concern that an arcade machine that's intended to play mame, multiple consoles, and potentially pcbs could very quickly fall into the territory of something does does a lot of things decently but doesn't do anything really really well.

[rCadeGaming]

Don't worry. Everything is being painstakingly planned to create as few compromises in quality as possible. Everything that originally ran at 15kHz will be running in native resolution, two cabs means nothing will be played in yoko mode, and every game will be played with the version with the lowest possible input lag.

One necessary compromise is that the TV can't do 31kHz. Games that are meant to run in 640x480 will, but it will be 480i instead of 480p. Full resolution, but interlace feathering will be noticeable if you look hard enough in certain newer games. On plus side, it won't have the input lag that comes with using an LCD that could display 480p.