How many buttons should a vertical cabinet have?

[ninn]

how comes you came from "most games do not use more than 3 buttons" to "that top row of 3 buttons isn't in the way of anything, so I don't see any good reason to remove it" ...

sorry, ... put as many buttons you like on your admin-power-menu-reset-select-coin-button-controlpanel with volume knob and small trackball.

This thread was an interesting read at first, guess most of the questions were already answered ... and now it is drifting into absurdity.


ninn

[rCadeGaming]

As I said, my original question should have indicated 4 buttons. I did believe that was enough at the time, and it's why I asked the question. Then several people responded saying I would need more.

I asked a question and now I agree with the answer I got from the majority of people. It's all right there.

admin-power-menu-reset-select-coin-button-controlpanel with volume knob and small trackball

It was clear from the start that admin buttons and volume, etc. were not factored into the number of buttons I was talking about. I was talking about the main action buttons per player.

[BIL]

Something on some Toaplan collection...

It's "the" Toaplan collection, unfortunately (despite the "Volume 1" in its title). Like I said, Kyuukyoku Tiger and Twin Cobra run slowly on a PS2.

[To Far Away Times]

If this is purely a vertical cab and you won't be playing fighting games on it then I think a four button layout would suffice.

Something like this:

A B C
D

[jasoncslaughter]

It's easy for a cab to get out of hand if you're trying to make it do everything. I'd go with whatever works for the games you most want to play. 4 or 6 should give you pretty much everything you need in my opinion.

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

Op, how will you solve the problem of button input if you want your cab to be compatible with so many different consoles? Will you hack joypad PCBs? That's quite a lot of hacking, respect man...


btw PS2--> USB-adapters work perfectly for me, I have no idea if they add any lag but if they do I haven't noticed yet. At least you will have one less pcb to solder.

Anyway, keep us up to date, I'd be interested in how this turns out. You probably post over at the byoac forums, post a link to your thread there if you like.

[rCadeGaming]

If this is purely a vertical cab and you won't be playing fighting games on it then I think a four button layout would suffice.

Something like this:

A B C
D

It's easy for a cab to get out of hand if you're trying to make it do everything. I'd go with whatever works for the games you most want to play. 4 or 6 should give you pretty much everything you need in my opinion.

Ok, this is something I've been wondering about for quite some time. Can everybody please chime on how they're using their four button layouts?

This is what I see very often in pictures of cabs and what's often recommended on forums for four button layouts:

Code: Select all

O = used button, X = unused button or maybe nonexistent button

O O O
O X X

Here's the big question. Are you using your thumb and three fingers (thumb on bottom left button), or four fingers and no thumb (pointer finger on bottom left button)?

If you're using your thumb then that might work for you, but I prefer to use four fingers, I don't really like using my thumb. I think that using four fingers in this layout is a pretty bad compromise, you have rotate your hand pretty far counter clockwise, which in turn requires you to either twist your wrist pretty badly or stick your elbow way in out into player 2's gut. I realize that this layout is used on real candy cabs, but I think it may be a compromise that came about in order to allow four button games to be played on control panels that were originally designed for six button fighters; it doesn't mean it's the best way to do it.

This is why I need seven buttons instead of six:

I prefer it this way:

O O O
O O O O

Obviously the six to the left are for street fighter style layouts, and then I like playing 1-4 button games with the bottom row...

...I would play something like a NEO GEO game like this (O = used, X = unused)

X X X
O O O O

I'm using my four fingers across the bottom, which works perfectly with the curvature of the Astro City layout. I think the four fingers are much more precise than using your thumb. Your fingers press straight down, the thumb is kind of sideways to the control panel.

Four fingers along the bottom is extremely comfortable and accurate. Give it a shot if you've never tried it.

Op, how will you solve the problem of button input if you want your cab to be compatible with so many different consoles? Will you hack joypad PCBs? That's quite a lot of hacking, respect man...


btw PS2--> USB-adapters work perfectly for me, I have no idea if they add any lag but if they do I haven't noticed yet. At least you will have one less pcb to solder.

Anyway, keep us up to date, I'd be interested in how this turns out. You probably post over at the byoac forums, post a link to your thread there if you like.

The MC Cthulhu PCB can handle PC, Nintendo, PC Engine, Sega Genesis, Super Nintendo, Sega Saturn, Sega Dreamcast, XBox 360, Nintendo Wii, and Playstation 3 (as well as others, but that's what I'm using it for):

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?th ... vor.46572/

As for the Genesis, Dreamcast, and Xbox 360, those will require pad hacks. All four of these (including MC Cthulhu) are common ground, so they can all be used together; this means they all are connected to power, ground, and the buttons all the time, but only the one console you're playing should be supplying power at a time, and only that console's data lines should be connected to the appropriate PCB. I'm building a switching circuit that will allow you to turn one rotary switch to change between systems. Just rotate the switch and it will route audio, video, and controller power and data from the selected console to the right places.

Technically I could also use the MC Cthulhu for Dreamcast as well, but using my own pad hacks allows for VMU support.

Here are my main BYOAC threads of interest:

Thread for this project (first post updated recently):
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.p ... 843.0.html

All about native res RGB on 15kHz CRT TV's (which I'll be using in these cabinets):
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.p ... 491.0.html

A giant argument about why more people don't use Japanese parts and button layouts:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.p ... 842.0.html

[emphatic]

ABC
D

D is thumb, yes. This layout is extremely good when you play modern shmups, as the fourth button usually is for hyper or something you just tap once in a while. I hate using my pinky finger for button four as it strains the top of you hand badly.

[trap15]

Yeah, what emph said. At first I didn't like using my thumb either, but I eventually realized how much better it is to use your thumb than try to have all 4 fingers spread across the buttons (even in an ABCD configuration).

[rCadeGaming]

I eventually realized how much better it is to use your thumb than try to have all 4 fingers spread across the buttons (even in an ABCD configuration).

You're saying this (thumb on bottom left):

Code: Select all

O O O
O X X

is better than this (pointer finger on bottom left):

Code: Select all

X X X
O O O O

How so?

I can think of some arguments to the contrary, but mainly it seems like it comes down to preference.

[shmuppyLove]

A B C
D

is kind of ass for neogeo ... what if you did instead:

B C D
A

But then games where you need to tap A rapidly will suck if you're using your thumb, and rotating your hand to get your pointer finger onto it won't be comfortable.

You could offset the bottom button to the left and it should work for both hand positions though.

[trap15]

You're saying this (thumb on bottom left):
is better than this (pointer finger on bottom left):

How so?

I can think of some arguments to the contrary, but mainly it seems like it comes down to preference.

You don't have to stretch your pinky finger all the way to the right, and you don't have to use it at all (it is the weakest finger).
Typically D isn't used for anything you have to tap often either, usually for hypers or whatever (DFK), or autofire (some configs of espgaluda/espgaluda2).

[emphatic]

A B C
D

is kind of ass for neogeo ... what if you did instead:

B C D
A

Simple answer = NEO-GEO only has one great game, and that uses only one button, so who the fuck cares about NEO-GEO (unless XYX get's my juices flowing, better footage, quick!). When I got my second 1L4B panel, I used the

B C D
A

configuration, but it drove my friends crazy at a shmupmeet and they re-wired it into

A B C
D

This layout is recommended by CAVE themselves for God's sake!

[rCadeGaming]

Yeah,

B C D
A

is kinda crap. However, in

A B C
D

and

A B C D

you're using the same fingers for A, B, and C. It's just a preference whether you want to use your thumb or pinky for D.

The seven button layout has room for both.

NEO-GEO only has one great game, and that uses only one button, so who the fuck cares about NEO-GEO

Keith Apicary would be pissed. Seriously though, no love for Last Blade? Pulstar/Blazing Star? Metal Slug?

Sorry if this is a noob question, but what is this amazing game with one button?

This layout is recommended by CAVE themselves for God's sake!

Again, did Cave recommend that as the best possible layout, or as the best layout for normal candy cabs, in which case that just means it's the best layout when your choices are constrained to something fitting in this:

O O O
O O O

[emphatic]

NEO-GEO only has one great game, and that uses only one button, so who the fuck cares about NEO-GEO

Keith Apicary would be pissed. Seriously though, no love for Last Blade? Pulstar/Blazing Star? Metal Slug?

Sorry if this is a noob question, but what is this amazing game with one button?

Blazing Star. It's not amazing, but it's at least one really good NEO-GEO game. Sorry, not a fan of the system.

This layout is recommended by CAVE themselves for God's sake!

Again, did Cave recommend that as the best possible layout, or as the best layout for normal candy cabs, in which case that just means it's the best layout when your choices are constrained to something fitting in this:

O O O
O O O[/quote]

I've just seen this configuration in their move strips and on their website. You're right, it's up to you which finger you prefer to use, but I have the NEO-GEO layout in my 2-player panel, and it seriously hurt my hand to use the pinky (playing ESPGALUDA and using D for full auto).

[chempop]

You're saying this (thumb on bottom left):

Code:
O O O
O X X

is better than this (pointer finger on bottom left):

Code:
X X X
O O O O

How so?

Not even a question... but that's coming from someone who prefers

B C D
A

I would rather not use my ring finger at all, so this setup doesn't need it for 3 button games (95% of the games I play). Plus, I'm fastest bombing with my index finger, so this setup also works best for that too.

[rCadeGaming]

what is this amazing game with one button?

Blazing Star.

Huh? You can use two buttons.

I have the NEO-GEO layout in my 2-player panel, and it seriously hurt my hand to use the pinky (playing ESPGALUDA and using D for full auto).

I checked out your website from your signature (good stuff), and I saw some pics of your Taito Egret with the four across button layout. That's a bit different from the Astro City layout that I'm using in that it's rotated counterclockwise quite a bit. Maybe that has something to do with it, and the angle it puts your hand at. I've never felt any discomfort using my pinky.

Anyhow, based on people's different preferences, I think I'll go with the seven button layout and have enough room to accommodate whatever my guests want.

I'm sorry to hear about the accident with your left hand, I hope it continues to get better and doesn't impact your hobbies too much.

Oh, and I was looking at NEO XYX after you mentioned it earlier. I have Last Hope Pink Bullets on the Dreamcast; I haven't had a chance to play it much yet it but it looked decent from what I've seen. I'm interested in checking out the other games from this company. It's always nice that new games are still being made for old hardware.

[BER]

Nine buttons.

http://suddenimpact.blog.shinobi.jp/Entry/187/

I can't read Japanese, but there are at least nine functions for Armed Police Batrider, and I guess these are what all the buttons do:

1. A: Shot
2. B: Bomber
3. C: Garegga option formation change
4. Start + A: Increase firing rate
5. Start + (B or Up): Show individual scores of enemies or enemy parts destroyed
6. Start + C: Decrease firing rate
7. Start + Left: Change color of round bullets
8. Start + Down: Change color of needle-like bullets
9. Start + Right: Change color of destructible bullets

Always be prepared for situations like this. :)

[man9child]

Depends on your control panel.

Sega style layout is more angled than Taito layout, so having A on the thumb isn't that bad.

For 99% of your games though, you're using 3 buttons or less, so I would just put them on the top and put 4 on weak kick as has been suggested already.

[jasoncslaughter]

Maybe I'm missing something, but this is a vertical cab, right? So Neo Geo games are out of the question unless you're holding out for the new NG:DEV game.

Also, I have a 3 button cab and it works just fine. I even have Batrider, and there's no need for more than 3 buttons for that game.

[emphatic]

Nine buttons.

http://suddenimpact.blog.shinobi.jp/Entry/187/

I can't read Japanese, but there are at least nine functions for Armed Police Batrider, and I guess these are what all the buttons do:

1. A: Shot
2. B: Bomber
3. C: Garegga option formation change
4. Start + A: Increase firing rate
5. Start + (B or Up): Show individual scores of enemies or enemy parts destroyed
6. Start + C: Decrease firing rate
7. Start + Left: Change color of round bullets
8. Start + Down: Change color of needle-like bullets
9. Start + Right: Change color of destructible bullets

Always be prepared for situations like this.

No, Batrider only use 3 buttons. The above button presses describe button combinations used only at game start to select ship options.

[trap15]

No, those are indeed used in-game. If you saw SWY's latest youtue upload (batrider run with garegga tram), he uses most of those combinations throughout.

[emphatic]

No, those are indeed used in-game. If you saw SWY's latest youtue upload (batrider run with garegga tram), he uses most of those combinations throughout.

Are you suggesting he used nine buttons though?

[cools]

I'm building a vertical arcade cabinet.

Will it have a coin mechanism?

[trap15]

No, those are indeed used in-game. If you saw SWY's latest youtue upload (batrider run with garegga tram), he uses most of those combinations throughout.

Are you suggesting he used nine buttons though?

Hahaha, I hope not. But he could have

[rCadeGaming]

Nine buttons.

Nine functions, but only four buttons including start (which could be put anywhere to make the combinations easier). I think this guy's screwing with me anyway...

Maybe I'm missing something, but this is a vertical cab, right? So Neo Geo games are out of the question unless you're holding out for the new NG:DEV game.

Well, I will be looking into that game, but there are four button games other than Neo Geo.

Will it have a coin mechanism?

Yeah, there will be a switch to disable the coin buttons hidden inside the cabinet, so it can be set to use real coins only. There will be a coin slot for each player, and they'll be on top of the control panel, like a candy cab.

[trap15]

Well, I will be looking into that game, but there are four button games other than Neo Geo.

Not many, and the ones I know of either really want the 4th button on the thumb, or they play nicer with that setup.

[rCadeGaming]

I prefer it this way:

O O O
O O O O

I don't like playing them on the top row because then you have unused buttons underneath your hand; they feel more "in your way" than when they're above your hand. It's a preference.

...

X X X
O O O O

I'm using my four fingers across the bottom, which works perfectly with the curvature of the Astro City layout. I think the four fingers are much more precise than using your thumb. Your fingers press straight down, the thumb is kind of sideways to the control panel.

...I prefer to use four fingers, I don't really like using my thumb...

...it seems like it comes down to preference.

...Anyhow, based on people's different preferences, I think I'll go with the seven button layout and have enough room to accommodate whatever my guests want...

[EllertMichael]

This thread had me notice that I play rather strangely...

I stick with the Neo Geo layout:

. B C D
A

with my thumb on A and my ringfinger on C, leaving index and middle to both handle B and pinky for D.

Anyone else play this way?

[moh]

This thread had me notice that I play rather strangely...

I stick with the Neo Geo layout:

. B C D
A

with my thumb on A and my ringfinger on C, leaving index and middle to both handle B and pinky for D.

Anyone else play this way?

I prefer the . A B C layout because i find it tough to hammer down the A button with my thumb for shooters
D
like sonic wings.