Question regarding CRT HDTVs and HD resolutions: 720p, 1080i

[Ed Oscuro]

I would like to get something that replaces the increasingly dodgy old Samsung I have lying about. Nice set, but it's had its day. The goal is for a set able to handle a variety of old systems, going hopefully back to the NES and hopefully up to the Xbox 360. I have read that quite a few late-model HD TVs of the cathode ray tube variety output 720p material to 1080i, which seems pretty yucky (especially if the source is 60Hz or so). On the other hand, 720p's relevance to me - including with the 360 and ps3 and earlier - is kind of uncertain.

Assuming 720p sets are the way to go, there appear to be vanishingly few of them (even if we travel back to 2006 or so). A couple models reputed to be 720p are:

JVC AV-34WP84
Toshiba 34HF83

The KV-34XBR910 looks like a fair choice but it is 1080i.

Obviously, I haven't checked local availability on any of these.

[Fudoh]

720p requires a lot better tube than 1080i does and the CRTs I know which do 720p, a Samsung over here for example, don't look too hot - at least they look way worse than any LCD or Plasma set. 1080i can be interpretated as 540p, so it's much closer to 480p or PAL progressive (576p), in terms of actual resolution on-screen at a time.

Some of the HD CRTs run SD signals through a digital processor - much like LCDs do, so you might not be very happy with their low-res qualities. This also introduces a lag similar to LCDs.

[ChuChu Flamingo]

NEC XM29+ can do 720p and beyond but 4:3. There are others too but most need to be professional grade broadcast monitors.

I am not a fan of HD CRTs. 95% of them are not 480p native and instead use line doubling or DRC(digital reality creation) + scaling. A lot of these Sony Wega Trinitrons would've been fantastic if Sony just made them multi-sync. Like Fudoh said, their input lag can be quite a bit.

My recommendation, if space permits, is to get a nice Sony PVM/RGB capable SD tube for all your retro games. 240p will look nice with scanlines, 480i won't have to be interlaced, and no input lag.

For Xbox 360/PS3 and current future games just get a nice low input lag 1080p LCD/Plasma. It really makes no sense to get a 720p set as 90% of games for the xbox 360/PS3 are not even internally 720p and are simply being upscaled. So it is often times better to scale to 1080p.

[Ed Oscuro]

PVM might not be an option but I will keep it in mind. I will also have a look for a nice, but not necessarily HD, CRT TV. Having a broadcast monitor for everything is not exactly the goal because I would like to reduce hours demanded of any set - I guess that's the reverse of what I stated above, though! In the meantime I should just put some more hours on the ol' TV I have here already because aside from the wonky headphone jack it's not bad.

[trivial]

If the rest of Sony's SFP direct-view sets are like mine, their native 1080i is indistinguishable from internally-scaled 720p, except with flickery test patterns. With PRO selected as the picture mode, lag is 15ms in all supported rezzes, even 480i. Raster is much sharper than usual in BOTH axes, not just horizontal as one might expect, owing to fancy drive electronics I guess.

Take your pick of one of the top eight in this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA

They are easy finds. However, the JVC you mentioned is available in Spokane, Seattle, and Vegas according to Craigslist, so is not forged of purest unobtanium. I would be intrigued to at least see one in action.

[Ed Oscuro]

Huh, I found a place semi-locally that has a ton of huge and heavy Trinitrons (I'm guessing over 100 pounds each, likely, and very awkward to carry, which will present some logistical nightmares) - I am considering whether I want to risk hernias over my entire body to get one. At the moment, I could get one of many newer-style (silver cabinets, widescreen, flat surface) sets, but there is also an older set with a 4:3 screen. Now, presumably the older-style set (I wasn't able to check dates) will have more hours on it, but in terms of reliability, has anybody any comments on the older sets versus the newer? And more importantly, any comments on playability of 4:3 sources and lag for widescreens?

It is a shame that the HD CRTs were being built before common awareness of input lag...if it weren't for SD sources, I would just give up and wait for a future flatscreen and save the weight and energy cost.

[ChuChu Flamingo]

I would go with the older CRT. The newer HD CRTs that Sony creating were usually made in China.

[Ed Oscuro]

Where it was made matters less than what the case is. I've heard of sets using more digital components instead of analog components to save cost, but I won't just assume that the widescreen trinitrons are crap because of a rumor that might apply more to sets from other manufacturers.

I'll take another look, hopefully they'll let me test out a few of the sets!

[Ed Oscuro]

Little update: I went to check out another store than the one with all the sets, and off to the side was a basically brand-new looking KV-27FS120. How fortunate - it's one of the exact sets I'd been hoping to find. I see it is *not* widescreen, and it is *not* HD. This might actually be a good thing, because a good low-lag LCD monitor or television is probably better for next-generation stuff anyways. It appears to have very low hours (almost no dust on it, for example), and I am glad it wasn't being stupidly used to display a still image continuously like many of the others. It also seems a bit more manageable than the other sets I was looking at yesterday. I had forgotten that these sets have a good amount of wiggle in the on-screen UI elements, especially on an open (snowy) channel - I managed to find a lead from the other sets and tested it out, and it showed the image with at least as much crispness as the other sets, and reasonable enough color vibrancy without adjustment. The flicker is almost unfamiliar these days but that's just a part of the technology.

An Amazon reviewer does complain about the geometry at the edges, and the tube doesn't really look flat (almost as if there is another layer of glass outside the tube edge, but I believe this is just an illusion - it is not like misleadingly-named True Flat sets from other manufacturers that put a conventional curved tube behind a flat front glass). It is flat enough, however; and at least as good as what I had before. The only thing I would likely complain about is that the case is silver (but not as bad looking as some other silver sets, or at least the worn ones I had been looking at the other day) and that the tube is not as dark while off as my current set (but blacks appear good while it is on, of course).

Getting this will let me ignore the question of "should I buy a HD CRT and burn hours into that for HD sources, and have to worry about additional sources of lag for SD material?"

[trivial]

Sweet set! 27" is about as much flat tube glass as you want to TATE. Keep in mind that late-model Sony SD sets also have a service menu, not just the HD sets.

[Ed Oscuro]

Hahaha. 27" is about twice as much flat tube as I would ever want to lift again. I'm not worried about the chassis or the glass as much as I am my back and the table this rests on.

The old Samsung TXJ2767 27" wasn't quite easy to carry, but I could get it around no problem. This one...jesus, I had to take little breathers all along the way. If I had been smart, I would've taped the little table rug I got to go under it to the chassis, so Mr. Ding (or Mr. Dent, if you prefer) didn't leave tell-tale marks at the edges of the new stairs Needless to say I copped out and slid it down. That shit is unbelievably heavy. The guy who loaded it into the car got it in without too much trouble though.

[Ed Oscuro]

So now my task is to discover how 480i works with the older consoles (up to about Xbox, I believe) and to see whether the set allows easy switching to a 240p display option!