The Castle for PC-88 ... anyone familiar with this?

[Shatterhand]

There are 2 games that I consider to be major masterpieces of videogaming, called "The Castle" and "Castle Excellent". I've played both games on an MSX computer.. and if you've never played those games, stop right now doing whatever you're doing and go play them. Those games are just extremely brilliant, there are few games in history that I can say are as excellent as those games.


Now... I always wanted to know the history behind the making of those games. On MSX, both games run at the exact same engine, they are basically identical except the level design is completely different (Same mechanics, same graphics, same sounds, same music, even the ending is the same). Both also show the same copyright in the title screen: "1985: Isao Yoshida, 1986: Keisuke Iwakura , 1986: Ascii Corp".

I do know the games were also released in the PC-88 computers, and I am inclined to believe the more famous MSX versions are actually ports from the PC-88. I would like to know who did what with those games. It's something that has been my curiosity since I was a child.

Does anyone have any info about the making of those games?
Also, if you have access to a PC-88 emulator, could you please take a screenshot of the title screen of those games? (Screenshots of the gameplay would be nice too).

And by the way, I know there's a NES version of Castle Excellent, which is called "Castlequest" in west. This was ported after the MSX version, and it's extremely horrible. The western version also shows a "1985/1986 Isao Yoshida/Keisuke Iwakura" copyright in the title screen. Both versions credit both guys in the ending (1985/1986 Isao Yoshida/Kesuke Iwakura), but it does give proper programming, sounds and graphics credits to other people (probably the guys who did the NES port).

Thanx in advance for any info And if you only know the horrible NES port, go play the MSX one. At first it may seems even worse - worst graphics, annoying music, very low framerate(which is deliberated, you can raise the framerate by pressing control. The game is like that so you can have precise control over your character)... but give it some time, and you will find some of the most brilliant level design and the most devilish puzzles ever in any game.

[Op Intensify]

There are 2 games that I consider to be major masterpieces of videogaming, called "The Castle" and "Castle Excellent". I've played both games on an MSX computer.. and if you've never played those games, stop right now doing whatever you're doing and go play them. Those games are just extremely brilliant, there are few games in history that I can say are as excellent as those games.

I'm not convinced. Looks like total ass to my eyes.

I'd honestly rather play Jet Set Willy or any of the Dizzy games, and those are also pretty far from being masterpieces. And if we're talking about the MSX, Maze of Galious was out only a year after the original Castle.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I do not know, but thanks for the suggestion. Some 8-bit computer games have aged shockingly well against all odds. If I didn't know better (Boulder Dash says hello; alas, the GBA port is bad), I'd have dissed something like Dragon Slayer because of the step-step-step movement alone. Sometimes precious little more than first-gen LCD games (framerate in seemingly single digits) remains entertaining...

[Shatterhand]

There are 2 games that I consider to be major masterpieces of videogaming, called "The Castle" and "Castle Excellent". I've played both games on an MSX computer.. and if you've never played those games, stop right now doing whatever you're doing and go play them. Those games are just extremely brilliant, there are few games in history that I can say are as excellent as those games.

I'm not convinced. Looks like total ass to my eyes.

I'd honestly rather play Jet Set Willy or any of the Dizzy games, and those are also pretty far from being masterpieces. And if we're talking about the MSX, Maze of Galious was out only a year after the original Castle.

Maze of Galious is a completely different kind of game.

Castle Excellent is all about the puzzles. The game is not just "naive fun from and old era", the game is bloody brilliant.

If you go for how the game looks and sounds, it does indeed looks horrible and sounds as bad. Play it for 15 minutes and I doubt you won't be hooked.

[BrianC]

I find it odd how the US NES Castlequest version of the FC Castle Excellent was given 50 lives, especially since it looks like it's a lot easier than the MSX games. The MSX games definitely look like the better versions, though it's interesting how the NES/FC has an enemy that looks strangely similar to Snarf from the Thundercats.

I noticed Mobygames has screen shots of the FM-7 version. The level designs look closer to the NES version, but with everything on screen like the MSX version. Not sure if the PC-88 version is like this, though. I couldn't find screens of the PC-88, but I read a post that said some of the levels in the PC-88 are different from MSX, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar to the FM-7 version.

I like older single screen games like Montezuma's Revenge quite a bit myself and this looks like it's in a similar mold.

[Shatterhand]

I've read the Famicom version actually has a way to save your game, using an external peripheral (Probably some kind of data-corder), while the NES doesn't have the port to connect this peripheral. That's why they give you 50 lives in the NES version.

Which is still kinda odd, since the MSX version actually takes one life from you when you save the game. It's a very interesting design decision... you can't go saving the game all the time to be safe, you have to be strategic with your game saves, as they cost you a life.

I've seen fullplays of the NES version lasting 18 minutes... while the shortest MSX fullplay I saw takes 50 minutes, using a shitload of shortcuts and ways to "fool" the game engine. There's a video in youtube, which takes around 3 hours, with the game fully beaten using the normal way.. and that video is slightly accelerated.

Playing the MSX version without ever being able to save is a pain in the ass.

[Ed Oscuro]

This is why I don't trust anything Shatterhand says, despite his excellent choice of username

I'll give it a go sometime, but yeah, pushing crates, man. La Mulana seems to do everything this game tries, but much better, and there's much more depth overall.

[Shatterhand]

At least the puzzles here follow a logic

Castle Excellent is not a platform game with exploration and obscure puzzles in mind (Like the aforementioned Maze of Galious and La Mulana). It's a different kind of game. No obscure puzzles here. You understand the rules of the game in like 1 minute, and every puzzle is layed out around those rules. There's no "Hit the invisible wall 5 times to open the door" shit, nor new stuff being introduced to player at every 10 minutes. It's more akin to "Eggerland" and "Chip's Challenge" games, except it's layed out as a platform game instead of having an overhead view, and you play in a big world (well, 10x10 rooms ) instead of a level after the other. (Though Eggerland 2 is also like that).

I have one problem with the game now, and is the fact its possible to make the player stuck in a way there's nothing you can do but hit F2 and start the game all over again (Or hope you have a savegame before you screwed it up). Its a fact anything you can do to screw up your game to that degree is avoidable and the game does hint you that you can be forever stuck before you screw it up... yet it can happen (In Castle Excellent I remember at least 3 different places where this can happen, in The Castle at least 2, though one is a... trap joke the designer put there, which is at the same time funny and annoying).

[Obiwanshinobi]

Is Castle Quest for the Game Boy any good?

[Ruldra]

I have one problem with the game now, and is the fact its possible to make the player stuck in a way there's nothing you can do but hit F2 and start the game all over again.

Well, I gave the game a try the other day and got stuck Bottom floor of the castle, past the water section. No way to reach the door at the top, no way to go back since you don't have the air canister anymore.

[Shatterhand]

I have one problem with the game now, and is the fact its possible to make the player stuck in a way there's nothing you can do but hit F2 and start the game all over again.

Well, I gave the game a try the other day and got stuck Bottom floor of the castle, past the water section. No way to reach the door at the top, no way to go back since you don't have the air canister anymore.

Yes, this is one of the parts where you have no way out. If you just jumped on water before opening all the green doors in the room with the air canister... you are silly

You must open all those green doors to get a dark blue key to open a dark blue door after the screen you got stuck... and you can and should reach that screen from the other side.. if you get to that room from the other side, you'll see the blue door in the room before, and won't have the key for it. Coming from there, you destroy that vase (or whatever the heck that thing is) that's blocking your way. Then you grab the green key, go to the room with the air cannister, get the blue key BEFORE jumping in the water, then follow normally

If you go grab that green key coming in the room from the other side, you'll be able to notice you will be stuck on that room if you don't destroy the vase when you get there from the other side.. you can see the water in the other exit of the room, you have the map, you know where you are heading to when you jump in the water.

If you are smart enough, you can avoid it the first time you play the game. But truth to be told, I don't think anyone actually avoided getting stuck on this room when playing the game for the first time, getting the air cannister and jumping in the water is just too easy to do (They should have put the air cannister after all the 5 green doors, so you would be forced to have all 5 green keys before going to water). The other 2 places where you can get stuck stick out a lot more, it's *very* obvious you'll be stuck if you screw up your route. (And, of course, after that one, which happens very early in the game, you'll always think twice before wasting an air cannister )


-You know, it's kinda silly to write in english with a brazilian friend

Is Castle Quest for the Game Boy any good?

Its not the same game. I have no idea, it seems to be a mix of RPG and Chess game. I played it very briefly years ago.

[Ruldra]

After playing the game a bit more again, I can see the charm behind it. But knowing it's a 3-hour ordeal even when you know exactly what to do, and after looking at some of the wtf-how-do-I-solve-this puzzles, you almost feel reluctant to play it. This is something that will take a very long time to beat.

And god, the music gets old fast. I feel tempted to pick up the air canister just to hear another track.

[Shatterhand]

After playing the game a bit more again, I can see the charm behind it. But knowing it's a 3-hour ordeal even when you know exactly what to do, and after looking at some of the wtf-how-do-I-solve-this puzzles, you almost feel reluctant to play it. This is something that will take a very long time to beat.

And god, the music gets old fast. I feel tempted to pick up the air canister just to hear another track.

3 hour if you know *exactly* what to do, and if you blast through the game.

I believe you wont take less than 10 hours in your first time finishing the game. Which is kinda unusual for a 1985 game I guess. Still its worth, there are some moments in the game that are truly genious.

And yeah, the music is extremely irritating

You can press Control to speed up the game, and Control+Shift to speed it up even more. The game is slow on purpose, if it was as fast as the hardware could go, some parts would be stupidly hard. (That's something the guys who ported the NES version obviously failed to notice)

And let's be fair here. There are no "WTF Puzzles" here. There's no "Hit the invisible wall 5 times" or "Jump 3 times on the bottom floor then remain crouched for 5 seconds to open the door" shit here. All puzzles are logical and they all follow the same rules all the time. There's no bullshit here But some puzzles surely will make you scratch your head for a long time before being beaten

[Herr Schatten]

"Hit the invisible wall 5 times" or "Jump 3 times on the bottom floor then remain crouched for 5 seconds to open the door"

Ahh, Golvellius.

[Ruldra]

But some puzzles surely will make you scratch your head for a long time before being beaten

Yes, that's what I meant by wtf puzzles. Certainly not the bullshit you face in La Mulana.

So how do you save the game? Tried all buttons but couldn't figure it out.

[LEGENOARYNINLIA]

I've only played a little of the SG-1000 version of The Castle and the Famicom version of The Castle Excellent, but I certainly can acknowledge the charm hidden in them. Anyone who refuses to try out these games is an outright fool.

[BrianC]

Is Castle Quest for the Game Boy any good?

Its not the same game. I have no idea, it seems to be a mix of RPG and Chess game. I played it very briefly years ago.

It also appears to be a port of the JP Famicom Castle Quest (not to be confused with Castle Excellent FC/Castlequest NES), though, oddly enough, it looks like the GB version was only released in Europe.

[Shatterhand]

But some puzzles surely will make you scratch your head for a long time before being beaten

Yes, that's what I meant by wtf puzzles. Certainly not the bullshit you face in La Mulana.

So how do you save the game? Tried all buttons but couldn't figure it out.

If I recall correctly, F4 saves and F3 loads. F2 finishes the game, and F1 kills you.

But you can only save in tape, and I dunno if tape emulation with BlueMSX or other emulators work properly. You are probably better using the emulator save states (Though you won't lose a life when saving like the real game )

The SG-1000 version of The Castle, from what I've seen, is identical to the MSX one. The Castle is a lot easier than Castle Excellent.

[Jockel]

[undamned]

I like older single screen games like Montezuma's Revenge quite a bit myself and this looks like it's in a similar mold.

First thought that crossed my mind while watching the youtube video: "this looks like montezuma's revenge vs spelunker."
-ud

[Aguraki]

somehow it reminds me legacy of the wizzard on nes no idea why.
I wanna try to beat it one day.
the castle looks a bit too slow for my taste.

[Shatterhand]

somehow it reminds me legacy of the wizzard on nes no idea why.
I wanna try to beat it one day.
the castle looks a bit too slow for my taste.

You can speed up the game, it's a feature built-in the game

The game is slow because it plays better that way for most of the time, but you may want to speed it up in the easier parts

[jasoncslaughter]

I love this game! Although I've only played it on the SG-1000.

[BrianC]

somehow it reminds me legacy of the wizzard on nes no idea why.

Dragon Slayer IV on MSX reminds me more of Legacy of the Wizard.

[Shatterhand]

somehow it reminds me legacy of the wizzard on nes no idea why.

Dragon Slayer IV on MSX reminds me more of Legacy of the Wizard.

And except by the fact both Dragon Slayer IV and The Castle are huge games for their time, they don't have much in common.


(And if anyone didn't notice yet, Dragon Slayer IV and Legacy of the Wizard are the same game, no need to thanks Capt. Obvious)

[BrianC]

somehow it reminds me legacy of the wizzard on nes no idea why.

Dragon Slayer IV on MSX reminds me more of Legacy of the Wizard.

And except by the fact both Dragon Slayer IV and The Castle are huge games for their time, they don't have much in common.

(And if anyone didn't notice yet, Dragon Slayer IV and Legacy of the Wizard are the same game, no need to thanks Capt. Obvious)

What's the point of using smilies for joke comments when people keep explaining the joke? BTW, I'm aware the The Castle and Legacy of the Wizard are very different games, but I also see how one game can remind one of the other due to the medieval theme and short people.

I should look into getting The Castle for SG-1000. I have a JP SMS and wouldn't mind picking up some more SG-1000 games. Any idea of what it goes for? There's one on ebay for 100 dollars, but it's NIB.

[jasoncslaughter]

Yeah, that $100 copy has been on ebay for quite some time now...

You can usually get it for $15-30 in box from reasonable sellers.

[BrianC]

Yeah, that $100 copy has been on ebay for quite some time now...

You can usually get it for $15-30 in box from reasonable sellers.

cool. Thanks for the heads up.