I bought a pair of those LCD-type 3-D glasses for my PC years ago (under the name of Simuleyes VR brand) and had them hooked up to the VGA output (using a special adapter box) on my PC tower running some included special 3-D DOS-based PC game programs. So I had the 3-D glasses up & running while I had a PSX hooked up to a seperate 27" Sony Wega playing a USA version of Einhander at the same time. The 3-D polygonal effects of Einhander is fucking insane, especially when using a LCD-type 3-D glasses. The surprising view of multi-layer depth is present and it seemed like that you could reach out and grab the various enemies presented in Einhander.
I found out by accident and have known about this Einhander 3-D glasses trick for the last 5 or 6 years now. Apparently, since the Einhander gaming engine runs at an impressive 60 frames per second, I believe it's the correct screen refresh rates on a TV monitor in conjunction with the flashing rate of my 3-D glasses, the magic of 3-D "eye-popping" graphics is made possible.
PC Engine Fan X! ^_~
PSX Squaresoft's Einhander supports LCD-type 3-D glasses...
-
PC Engine Fan X!
- Posts: 9099
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:32 pm
Ummm, unless the developers put in a 3d display option/mode where every other frame is rendered at a slightly different angle, you aren't really seeing 3d. The glasses won't make any bit of difference otherwise.
[edit] actually I take that back, there can be some stereoscopy precived by the brain if one eye is looking at an image through a polorized lens...maybe this is the effect you are seeing. Its still not real 3d, but close. [/edit]
[edit] actually I take that back, there can be some stereoscopy precived by the brain if one eye is looking at an image through a polorized lens...maybe this is the effect you are seeing. Its still not real 3d, but close. [/edit]
Actually, it is.
Since Einhander is 3D, and those glasses work by shuttering each side alternatively, each eye sees the playfield from a different perspective, because by the time the glasses reverse the shutter effect to darken the previously clear crystal and viceversa the screen has moved giving the impression of a different angle on the other eye. To the brain it makes no difference if it's a trick or a real 3D object. When it combines the two slightly different images, it forms a fully 3D picture.
I imagine the effect disappears when the screen comes to a halt for a sec, since each eye sees the same angle. Any moving ship or enemy would look 3D, though.
Try it with other shooters. I imagine Ikaruga must look absolutely gorgeous. Tell us about R-Type Delta, G-Darius and Thunder Force 5.
I wonder if my SMS 3D glasses can achieve the same effect. They're basically the same thing.
In the case of PCEFX, it's more of a coincidence than actual functionality.
Since Einhander is 3D, and those glasses work by shuttering each side alternatively, each eye sees the playfield from a different perspective, because by the time the glasses reverse the shutter effect to darken the previously clear crystal and viceversa the screen has moved giving the impression of a different angle on the other eye. To the brain it makes no difference if it's a trick or a real 3D object. When it combines the two slightly different images, it forms a fully 3D picture.
I imagine the effect disappears when the screen comes to a halt for a sec, since each eye sees the same angle. Any moving ship or enemy would look 3D, though.
Try it with other shooters. I imagine Ikaruga must look absolutely gorgeous. Tell us about R-Type Delta, G-Darius and Thunder Force 5.
I wonder if my SMS 3D glasses can achieve the same effect. They're basically the same thing.
In the case of PCEFX, it's more of a coincidence than actual functionality.
Don't hold grudges. GET EVEN.
The 3d glasses you have for the pc are shutterglasses. They are essentially the same as the 3d glasses for the sega master system. Both work on this principle: When the screen shows the image for the left eye, the lcd in the glasses over the right eye darkens (but the left eye is clear), then the screen shows the image for the right eye and the lcd in the glasses over the left eye darkens while the right eye is clear. When this switch happens 60 times a second (if your refresh rate is 60 Hz) you see one steady image for the right eye and another for the left eye.
The thing is, in order for this to work the image HAS to switch between the left and right eyes in sync with the glasses and it will will look like portions of the screen are shaking to anyone not wearing the glasses (look at any of the 3d sega master system games, even through emulation, and you'll see what I mean). On the pc this improves because it can switch between the left and right eyes more than 60 times a second (say 120 times if your refresh rate is 120 Hz) and this is so fast your eyes don't even see any of the flicker that you can notice at 60 Hz. The master system games were programmed to be in 3d, but any polygon game can be made to be 3 dimensional if you have a way of calculating where the polygons are (close to the screen or far away) and sending a proper image to the left and right eye. On modern pc cards, only nvidia offers this option (they have special 3d stereo drivers) and it works really well.
However, the playstation definitely does NOT have this option. Either the 3d you think you see is a psychological trick, or possibly the glasses were stuck with one eye dark and the other eye clear. In this case you were using them as pulfrich 3d glasses. The principle with pulfrich 3d is that you wear glasses where one eye has a darker lens than the other, the image that goes through the darker lens takes slightly longer to get to your brain than the clear lens and whenever there is a disparity between the image your brain receives in your left and right eyes, you think it is 3d. This effect only works with moving images (because if it is static, the same image is observed through both eyes even if the eye with the dark lens takes a split second longer) and it is not as effective as true shutterglasses stereo 3d, which is effective with static images as well as moving images, but I just got a pair of pulfrich glasses (you can search for them on ebay) and I found they were surprisingly effective for racing games (especially outrun 2), although they made shmups a little too stressing on the eyes.
The biggest advantage the pulfrich glasses have over shutter glasses is that you aren't restricted in the type of screen you can use. You can't use shutter glasses with a non-crt based display (like lcd monitors or hd tvs) because of the different refresh technology.
As a final note, because the shutter glasses work in the same way as the master system glasses, I found you can use them to play sega 3d games without getting the 3d glasses. In fact I use my xbox or dreamcast with a master system emulator on my standard tv with a tv shutterglasses (they are just like the computer one, but you connect the video out from your tv into the glasses syncbox and they sync to your tv for watching 3d encoded movies... there are some IMAX ones on dvd) and the master system 3d games come out in perfect 3d!
The thing is, in order for this to work the image HAS to switch between the left and right eyes in sync with the glasses and it will will look like portions of the screen are shaking to anyone not wearing the glasses (look at any of the 3d sega master system games, even through emulation, and you'll see what I mean). On the pc this improves because it can switch between the left and right eyes more than 60 times a second (say 120 times if your refresh rate is 120 Hz) and this is so fast your eyes don't even see any of the flicker that you can notice at 60 Hz. The master system games were programmed to be in 3d, but any polygon game can be made to be 3 dimensional if you have a way of calculating where the polygons are (close to the screen or far away) and sending a proper image to the left and right eye. On modern pc cards, only nvidia offers this option (they have special 3d stereo drivers) and it works really well.
However, the playstation definitely does NOT have this option. Either the 3d you think you see is a psychological trick, or possibly the glasses were stuck with one eye dark and the other eye clear. In this case you were using them as pulfrich 3d glasses. The principle with pulfrich 3d is that you wear glasses where one eye has a darker lens than the other, the image that goes through the darker lens takes slightly longer to get to your brain than the clear lens and whenever there is a disparity between the image your brain receives in your left and right eyes, you think it is 3d. This effect only works with moving images (because if it is static, the same image is observed through both eyes even if the eye with the dark lens takes a split second longer) and it is not as effective as true shutterglasses stereo 3d, which is effective with static images as well as moving images, but I just got a pair of pulfrich glasses (you can search for them on ebay) and I found they were surprisingly effective for racing games (especially outrun 2), although they made shmups a little too stressing on the eyes.
The biggest advantage the pulfrich glasses have over shutter glasses is that you aren't restricted in the type of screen you can use. You can't use shutter glasses with a non-crt based display (like lcd monitors or hd tvs) because of the different refresh technology.
As a final note, because the shutter glasses work in the same way as the master system glasses, I found you can use them to play sega 3d games without getting the 3d glasses. In fact I use my xbox or dreamcast with a master system emulator on my standard tv with a tv shutterglasses (they are just like the computer one, but you connect the video out from your tv into the glasses syncbox and they sync to your tv for watching 3d encoded movies... there are some IMAX ones on dvd) and the master system 3d games come out in perfect 3d!
using shutterglasses can cause headaches on a regular tv because with the glasses alternating between clear and dark in each eye at 60 times a second you can see a flickering effect. When used on a computer with higher refresh rates (100 hz), however, there is no visible flicker. Alas, as far as I know there are no sega master system emulators that can support shutterglasses for the 3d games at higher refresh rates, so no headache-free blade eagle 3d (my attempt to return the topic to shmups)
-
pixelcorps
- Posts: 797
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:52 am
- Location: JP
the master system 3d games did that (and most pc games can using nividia stereo 3d drivers... including pc shmups that use polygons)pixelcorps wrote:if the screen doesnt flicker a different angle every other frame for the glasses to filter, it's not true 3D, and I know that no console game does that.
-
pixelcorps
- Posts: 797
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:52 am
- Location: JP
i'll rephrase it, consoles without 1st party 3d glasses that were manufactured in the last 10 years...xexex wrote:the master system 3d games did that (and most pc games can using nividia stereo 3d drivers... including pc shmups that use polygons)pixelcorps wrote:if the screen doesnt flicker a different angle every other frame for the glasses to filter, it's not true 3D, and I know that no console game does that.
-
Zweihander
- Posts: 1363
- Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 8:10 am
- Location: US
