RGB on a US Saturn

[Obiwanshinobi]

Technically the topic belongs in the Hardware subforum, so feel free to move or lock it if it's already covered. I just thought it might be of some interest even for those who don't seek this kind of knowledge.
Something seemed off about the colours when I hooked my US Saturn up my Euro CRT via the standard SCART lead. Didn't look like "true" RGB to me. I did not have such doubts while playing those few properly optimised 50 Hz games - Baku Baku Animal, Guardian Heroes and Panzer Dragoon Zwei - on my PAL unit with the same cable before. I know SCART sockets accept composite input via adapters, but to be fair, the difference here wasn't as stark as PS2 composite vs PS2 RGB as I remember it, so maybe it was about S-Video quality.
Long story short, I found out that my US Saturn ouputs RGB signal only when there's a Euro disc inside (chipped console, mind you, with Action Replay inserted to boot). The workaround to play NTSC games in RGB glory is: swith on the console with a Euro disc inserted, swap the disc for an NTSC game, choose the "start game" option, enjoy. Resetting may or may not work (depends on the first game) and I'm not sure if the solution would work without Action Replay... For instance, Hyper Duel region-patched to Euro runs in RGB, but does NOT make the console remember the setting and upon reset it's not RGB anymore. Switching the Saturn off (uplugging even) doesn't help; it takes inserting another Euro game, than swapping it for Hyper Duel, to enjoy RGB again.
On the other hand, Guardian Force (J) once in RGB mode, can be safely reset and it's still RGB.
It may all sound convoluted, but once you see the difference between RGB and not-quite-RGB, there's no turning back. I can supply some photos, just not at the moment.

[Friendly]

That's pretty weird; I have (multiple) Japanese Saturns, and they output RGB all the time (via RGB scart).

[Obiwanshinobi]

Japan had its own brand of SCART, first-party SCART leads for the Japanese Saturn even, so maybe Japanese units output RGB by default.
No idea why my US unit is like that, but then again, it's the only US console I own. Apparently the latest North American Wiis don't output RGB at all, so there's that.

[Friendly]

I'm not using Japanese scart cables for my JP Saturns, the pinout of Japanese Saturns is the same as everywhere else. European Saturns also output RGB by default.

[Ganelon]

The US Sega Saturn actually outputs RGB just fine across all models I've come across. It's the setup you're using—US SS plus PAL RGB SCART cables—that won't work.

NTSC (e.g. US and Japan) and PAL (e.g. European) Sega Saturn systems have the same AV pinout except for a single pin that outputs composite sync on NTSC systems and 9V on PAL systems. This mismatched signal is why you're experiencing picture issues.

Essentially, SS video cables are designed for systems of one region or another (NTSC or PAL), not both. If you want RGB on a US SS, then the official RGB21 cable with composite sync that Sega of Japan manufactured will do.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I've got it sorted out alright. Region patching works a treat.

[Fudoh]

Essentially, SS video cables are designed for systems of one region or another (NTSC or PAL), not both

but that's why all the official Saturn cables (both japanese and european ones) only use composite video as sync and not raw sync. This way the official saturn cables can be used on all Saturn version, no matter where they're from.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Nothing seems to be wrong with the way cable handles the signal to be fair. It's the console itself that doesn't always remember to output RGB, but can be tricked into it all the same.

[Ex-Cyber]

I didn't even know it was possible for the RGB output to be turned off. I'm still not sure how that would even work.

[antron]

I think it's the RGB on the TV that's not getting turned on.

I have seen two types of Saturn SCART cables. If I recall correctly they either provide 5V or composite sync (9V on PAL unit) to SCART pin 16 (blanking, forces RGB mode when above 1V). These are not directly connected but through a drop down resistor.

These cables I have come across must have been for NTSC and PAL units. Perhaps he has PAL cable and is now using it with an NTSC console. Feeding composite sync to the Blanking pin might cause different behavior depending on its frequency (especially through a drop down resistor).

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