Snes connected directly to an LCD-"crossing" lines all over

[kowski77]

First off all I want to say thanks for all these great tips and friendly suggestions this forum provides. I don't have much experience when it's about connecting an old 16bit console to an HDTV and even if I've read Fudoh's website I haven't seen the "crossing lines" on any of the pictures.
Unfortunately I can't compare the picture to my old LCD because I've only been playing my SNES on an old CRT when I was at my grandparents house.

When this is just normal and the standard effect when connecting a Snes to an LCD via RGB Scart I apologize in advance. I just didn't know better and haven't been able to spot this on any screenshot

My LCD is a Sony KDL40HX855 and a PAL SNES which is directly connected to the TV via Scart.


I made a picture of the "problem" using my mobile so the picture quality isn't that good but should be enough to show what I'm referring to.

[blizzz]

Just tried it with my PAL SNES and I get the same artifacts, on top of that I also get screen tearing on both PAL and NTSC SNES on my TV. My console and cable are perfectly fine on a capture card, so that can't be the issue. I don't think there's anything you can do to fix this, sorry.

[kowski77]

Thanks for your prompt reply blizz. Totally forgot to write that I'm using a PAL SNES.
And thanks of course that you tried it out for yourself. I'm just wondering now why I've never seen this effect on any screenshots at all (or just didn't notice).

[blizzz]

Maybe other TVs blur it out or most of the screenshots are from NTSC SNES consoles which have a slightly different video output. At least my NTSC SNES looks fine on the Sony TV (but it's still unplayable because of the screen tearing). The screenshots you've seen on this forum are produced by upscalers like the XRGB-mini or digital capture cards.

[Fudoh]

I would suspect that this is caused by the composite video used as sync on a SNES RGB signal. Does a PAL SNES support raw sync output ? Maybe try a sync stripper on the video line.

[kowski77]

Thanks for your input blizz & Fudoh.

Just a quick thought: Do you have any problems with your Super Famicom ? Is it maybe possible that this "effect" is just caused by my PAL Snes? If this would be the case it's probably a good idea just to buy a Super Famicom and mod it so I can play my Pal games.

At first I wanted to buy a Framemeister but I think it's bit of an overkill for just one retro-console.

[blizzz]

Just a quick thought: Do you have any problems with your Super Famicom ? Is it maybe possible that this "effect" is just caused by my PAL Snes? If this would be the case it's probably a good idea just to buy a Super Famicom and mod it so I can play my Pal games.

I've got screen tearing for 60Hz SNES games on my EX655 while 50Hz displays fine, so keep in mind that the HX855 might have the same problem. PAL games have several disadvantages compared to NTSC games, like black bars on the top and bottom and they play painfully slow if you're used to the originals. There are ways to play PAL games on NTSC consoles, but that shouldn't be your goal.

[Fudoh]

I've got screen tearing for 60Hz SNES games on my EX655 while 50Hz displays fine

is that with a 60Hz-modded PAL SNES machine ? Genuine NTSC machines should be perfectly fine on the Sony.

[blizzz]

I've got screen tearing for 60Hz SNES games on my EX655 while 50Hz displays fine

is that with a 60Hz-modded PAL SNES machine ? Genuine NTSC machines should be perfectly fine on the Sony.

Happens with both. Also happens on the Wii, which should be spot on 59.94.

[kowski77]

@Fudoh: When you connect your Super Famicom to the HX855 via RGB you don't have any problems I suppose!?

Maybe I should really try this. Been waiting for the SLG in a Box to be available which is often claimed to be comparable to the XRGB units but at a cheaper price tag. I love these scaler devices and maybe all my "picture problems" will be gone when I finally have one.
Sorry if my little "theories" are complete rubbish but here is a noob speaking

Thanks for all your fantastic help!

[blizzz]

Been waiting for the SLG in a Box to be available which is often claimed to be comparable to the XRGB units but at a cheaper price tag. I love these scaler devices and maybe all my "picture problems" will be gone when I finally have one.

The GBS scaler in it is rubbish, it's only an option if you don't have any alternatives. It will most likely look worse than your TV alone.

[kowski77]

Ok than I will quickly forget about the SLG in a Box
Thanks blizzz so there is only the Framemeister left and I just can't justify to buy this expensive machine for just one retro console.

[Fudoh]

I have a HX9 and I have no problems with any NTSC source.

SLG in a Box to be available which is often claimed to be comparable to the XRGB units but at a cheaper price tag.

yeah, don't misread my review. When I state that the GBS's deinterlacing is nearly as good as the XRGB-3's, then I'm talking 480i signals and only the raw deinterlacing, not the rest of the processing. On 240p it's nowhere in the same ballpark.

Nevertheless, there are so many cheap video processors out there which all give you great quality on the HX8.

[kowski77]

Could you maybe recommend one preferably one which I could use in combination with the SLG3000?
I was thinking about a Videon Omega One (just can't find the Vigatec which seems to be pretty rare) but am not quite sure how to set up the whole thing to my TV.

SNES RGB - Sync Strike - Videon - SLG3000 - TV

Would that be a good idea?

Thanks in advance for all your help!

[Fudoh]

I was thinking about a Videon Omega One (just can't find the Vigatec which seems to be pretty rare)

The Videon is pretty rare as well. You might wanna go for a processor with RGB inputs, maybe a Cinemateq or an iScan HD.

SNES RGB - Sync Strike - Videon - SLG3000 - TV

doesn't work, the Videon can't work with RGB.

[BuckoA51]

I would suspect that this is caused by the composite video used as sync on a SNES RGB signal.

I second this, this is exactly the effect I got on my SFC on PAL games before switching to raw sync.

[kowski77]

Just picked up a used XRGB2+ for a good price and can't wait for it to arrive.
Maybe my screen problems will be history using this little machine. I'll keep you guys posted.

Thanks again for everything

[kowski77]

Just hooked up my newly acquired Super Famicom to my TV. The weird "lines " from the Pal Super Nes are gone but the picture is quite dark and lines are flickering all over the screen.

I'm using the power supply from my Pal Snes and the same RGB cable.

Any thoughts on this? Thanks guys!!!

[Fudoh]

PAL SNES PSU is AC, not DC. You can damage your SFC by using it.

[brownvim]

I had this problem on my Panasonic plasma, I just changed the noise setting and it was nice n smooth.

P-NR is the setting iirc.

[mvsfan]

i had this problem due to an incorrectly wired s-video cable. if you are getting the same out of an rgb cable then it too is wired wrong. whats wrong is that its using composite video for sync. either wiring it up to straight sync (raw sync cable) or using an lm1881 sync seperator will cure the problem.

[Fudoh]

PAL SNES don't have raw sync without a mod. Using luminance from the s-video pins might help as well though.