Checked out the 3rd Batman flick, The Dark Knight Rises?

[RGC]

If anyone were ever just "there" it's Michael Caine. He has always been and will ever be Michael Caine. No acting required. I'm not dissing the guy -- Dirty Rotten Scoundrels is one of my all time favourite Steve Martin films. Those two worked well together.

[xbl0x180]

The guy's diction does most of his work - it's just the way he speaks. The guy could be reading ingredients for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, and it would sound like freakin' Shakespeare. I wonder if he's good for narrating books-on-tape

[njiska]

Saw TDKR in IMAX on Wed. and on the whole I was pleased. It's definitely not as strong a film as The Dark Knight, but it was a solid film in it's own right that closed out the Nolan trilogy quite nicely. While I see a lot of complaints have been voiced, these are my main thoughts.

On Bane:

I really wasn't sure how to feel about the inclusion of Bane, given that up until this point every adaptation of the character I've seen has focused on his strength, not his intellect, but TDKR gets it right. Bane is an expert tactician who is always ten steps ahead of his competition, using violence when necessary, but also using misdirection to guide his opponents. He maintains a cult of personality that gives him complete control of his followers, to the point that when he says, "Search the body, then I will kill you.", his man just searches the body, rather than fleeing. I was also very pleased with his fighting style. Bane is a hulking beast of a man and uses his weight to his advantage when he throws an attack. His blows are always heavy and deliberate, in many ways representative of the personality of the man himself.

Bane Makes the movie for me.

On the 99%:

Class inequality has been a recurring theme throughout the Nolan trilogy, but never is it more present than in this instalment. Though rather than focusing on how the rich get richer while the poor starve and die, the film instead explores the anger that builds and grows when such an inequality is allowed to be maintained. An anger that is misplaced and can be easily used and manipulated by the wise. This forms a large portion of the final third and I personally think was expertly handled.

On Selina Kyle:

Say what you will, but I loved Ann Hathaway's performance. I think she did a great job of bringing to the screen a Catwoman that was far less fetishized and far more believable. She is a strong woman who can take care of herself, is confident in her skills and yet at the same time feels trapped and oppressed by the snare of her past that is slow closing in around her. While her interactions with Batman may seem cold and disingeniune, I believe this is because until the very end of the film, they are meant to be. She is never really portrayed as a love interest (barring spoilers).

On Batman:

My only real complaint with the film is that there's a great gap in the middle that is lacking in Batman. While Nolan does try to fill the gap by giving more time to Joseph Gordon-Levitt, he ends up overshadowing the Bat and making the lead role feel somewhat superfluous for at least a good half hour.

I am, however, very happy with the film's ending. It ties up a lot of plot threads nicely and gives Nolan and Bale and out from the franchise, while still leaving the option for a new story to be told with in the same universe. A story, that I think will be quite interesting, given the character development leading into it.

On Music:

Where as The Dark Knight had a theme full of over powering horns that gave you a sense of enormity and grandeur, the Dark Knight Rises instead uses a repetitive two tone chant at increasing speeds to create a sense of focused, absolute intensity. Hans Zimmer yet again shows us his talent.

[louisg]

Where as The Dark Knight had a theme full of over powering horns that gave you a sense of enormity and grandeur, the Dark Knight Rises instead uses a repetitive two tone chant at increasing speeds to create a sense of focused, absolute intensity. Hans Zimmer yet again shows us his talent

I guess he forgot where he left this:
http://inception.davepedu.com/

[evil_ash_xero]

You summed that up well, njiska.

I also liked Anne Hatheway's Catwoman, as did my friend who came along to the showing with me.

[BrianC]

On Selina Kyle:

Say what you will, but I loved Ann Hathaway's performance. I think she did a great job of bringing to the screen a Catwoman that was far less fetishized and far more believable. She is a strong woman who can take care of herself, is confident in her skills and yet at the same time feels trapped and oppressed by the snare of her past that is slow closing in around her. While her interactions with Batman may seem cold and disingeniune, I believe this is because until the very end of the film, they are meant to be. She is never really portrayed as a love interest (barring spoilers).

This is why I like Catwoman in Batman The Dark Knight Rises, as well.

[xbl0x180]

That was a terrible interpretation of Catwoman; that was some random characterisation/person that Nolan called "Catwoman." Catwoman has always exuded sexyness and dangerous feminine allure in the comics, in the teevee series, in other movies, in commercials, etc. Still, I wasn't surprised to see Nolan blow it just from seeing how incredibly boring and long-winded his stilted Batman movies are

[evil_ash_xero]

This Catwoman seems to take more from the Brubaker/Cooke run. You know, from the actual comics.
I think people keep thinking "this is purrrrrfect!" when thinking about Catwoman, when she hasn't been like that in a while.

[CMoon]

OK, yes, I'll admit it. I just watched all three batman movies more or less in a row (one last night, one this morning, then the final one this afternoon.) Say what you will, I don't care.

** inadvertent spoilers**

1) The movie are surprisingly consistent. There is a sense that if you like one you will like them all, and there are little touches here and there that do make them a trilogy.

2) For me, I think I like 'Begins' the best. It broods a little bit less and feels more straight forward. Certainly all the films have a sort-of slow, baroque thing going on (even while there's tons of shooting and explosions), but Begins just feels a little less...constipated?

3) Unlike all you haters, I actually do like these films, but now having seen the first and second one three times, I don't really know if I ever need to see them again. Good films for hollywood for the last decade, but twice is probably the most any of these films need to be viewed.

4) Regarding this final installment, I think it was not as clear as the other ones. If Bane's intent was to destroy Gotham, why not just detonate the nuke? And if Bane knows the bomb will self-detonate, why bother setting up the whole revolution thing? Bane isn't The Joker, so I don't buy the whole social experiment argument. Ultimately I'm unconvinced by Bane's revolution other than some sort of classist analogy which doesn't really fly. Maybe I'm missing something here and you guys can explain this one to me.

5) WTF? Why did you watch all the batman movies in a row? Honestly, I had the day off and couldn't really do anything else other than consume a bunch of alcohol. Really, these aren't bad films, so I was entertained. Still, I'd like to not hear about the batman for a while.

[BIL]

If Bane's intent was to destroy Gotham, why not just detonate the nuke? And if Bane knows the bomb will self-detonate, why bother setting up the whole revolution thing?

He also wanted to punish Wayne for his actions against the League of Shadows. When he dumps him in Forbidding Foreign Jail, he says he'll "torture" him by allowing Gotham's citizens false hope before owning them with his Massive Nuclear Bomb while Wayne watches powerlessly. "No despair without hope." Gotham would still blow up in five months and the trigger could be pressed at any time.

I've liked all three of these movies. This one wasn't as intense nor as good as the second and obviously rehashes large elements of the first wholesale, but I'm willing to write it off as coming full circle since these are the only Comic Book Movies that don't put me to sleep. Aaron Eckhart's unheard howl of anguish when he awakens in hospital and glimpses his charred coin is about the only thing from men in spandex entertainment that gave me chills. Al Ghul's horrifying backstory in this film was substantial stuff, too.

LOL @ "ITS ALL ALFREDS DREAM" theories on the IMDB boards regarding the ending. Christ that place is a retard breeding facility.

[xbl0x180]

This Catwoman seems to take more from the Brubaker/Cooke run. You know, from the actual comics.
I think people keep thinking "this is purrrrrfect!" when thinking about Catwoman, when she hasn't been like that in a while.

Wow. That's just bloody awful. What ever happened to Julie Newmar-type Catwoman

[njiska]

If Bane's intent was to destroy Gotham, why not just detonate the nuke? And if Bane knows the bomb will self-detonate, why bother setting up the whole revolution thing?

He also wanted to punish Wayne for his actions against the League of Shadows. When he dumps him in Forbidding Foreign Jail, he says he'll "torture" him by allowing Gotham's citizens false hope before owning them with his Massive Nuclear Bomb while Wayne watches powerlessly. "No despair without hope." Gotham would still blow up in five months and the trigger could be pressed at any time.

Exactly. The entire point of the revolution is not revolution at all, but a ruse to create false hope in Gotham's citizens, thus making their inevitable fate more tragic. It makes the people suffer, it makes Bruce suffer and it helps Bane to get revenge on Bruce Wayne for Ra's Al Ghul's death.

[CMoon]

Exactly. The entire point of the revolution is not revolution at all, but a ruse to create false hope in Gotham's citizens, thus making their inevitable fate more tragic. It makes the people suffer, it makes Bruce suffer and it helps Bane to get revenge on Bruce Wayne for Ra's Al Ghul's death.

I'm sure the two of you are right, but ultimately it feels rather convoluted.

[Randorama]

Exactly. The entire point of the revolution is not revolution at all, but a ruse to create false hope in Gotham's citizens, thus making their inevitable fate more tragic. It makes the people suffer, it makes Bruce suffer and it helps Bane to get revenge on Bruce Wayne for Ra's Al Ghul's death.

I'm sure the two of you are right, but ultimately it feels rather convoluted.

That's the plan of a psychotic criminal, isn't it?

[BIL]

I'm sure the two of you are right, but ultimately it feels rather convoluted.

I guess the pseudo-"revolution" also provides a convenient pretext for the rich getting brutalised by the poor, too, before the whole lot are eradicated. There are no innocent people in Gotham according to Talia, but presumably those perceived as the most decadent by the LOS would be singled out for mob justice.

[GaijinPunch]

Anne Hathoway was fine. That's really all I have to say about that.

It's really hard for me to rank any of these movies in comparison to one another. I never said I liked The Dark Knight over Batman Begins. While I think Ledger's performance will never be topped in a comic book movie (or most movies at that), I still look at each as a whole instead of the sum of it's parts. Tom Hardy's Bane was menacing. The roll doesn't allow for that up close and personal touch that the Joker's did, but that is the point of terrorism.

It didn't bother me that TDKR shared a lot of parallels with BB. Each movie has it's own theme. BB: Corruption. TDK: Chaos. TDKR: Fear. Rahs Al Gul gains control of the city by corruption in the first movie. Bane by brute force. I think if they went for a more traditional Batman villain (The Riddler?) It would have been too much more like the second movie. That being said, I'm a bit scared about the future of the franchise. This is really the only comic book franchise I care for. Even Iron Man movies I would only watch once, and not bother to buy. (I've not seen The Avengers yet). If they do choose to continue it (I'd be fine with them leaving it as-is) I'm sure Nolan won't be involved, and it will become just another comic book movie series.

I did notice the political overtones of the film, but the entire revolution was only possible by using the financial system. They would have never gotten into the armory had they not made a bunch of wonky options trades in Bruce Wayne's name. That's hardly the Occupy movements MO. That was also, for me, the biggest plot hole as I know how electronic trading works... and that plan wouldn't have. But, this is a comic book movie. It's not about realism.

Whether it made me enjoy the movie more or less I can't say but I thought this one was darker and more violent than the other two, which were both plenty dark. Most of the violence still occurs off screen, but in tone, it's quite obvious.

My thoughts on the thread:
-Split the gun talk into some other thread that will soon be locked
-Even though xlbox has annoyed the entire forum by spamming the same emoticon (which really doesn't make much sense to boot) I will still give him credit over Skykid as he has seen the movie already. While Skykid hasn't started bashing this one (yet), why spend so much time in a thread that dissects the movie before seeing it? Wouldn't that effect one's judgement? He is right about Nolan's choice of leading women though. But even a broken clock is right twice a day.
-njiska is so far winning the thread

[BrianC]

This Catwoman seems to take more from the Brubaker/Cooke run. You know, from the actual comics.
I think people keep thinking "this is purrrrrfect!" when thinking about Catwoman, when she hasn't been like that in a while.

Yeah, this is part of what I was trying to say before. Anne Hathaway's Catwoman seems to be a throwback to earlier Catwomen. When she first appeared in the comics, she was called "The Cat" and robbed in normal clothes, which she does in Dark Knight Rises.

[GaijinPunch]

Actually according to Nolan the themes are fear, chaos, and pain, respectively.

[Mischief Maker]

This Catwoman seems to take more from the Brubaker/Cooke run. You know, from the actual comics.
I think people keep thinking "this is purrrrrfect!" when thinking about Catwoman, when she hasn't been like that in a while.

My point throughout this thread has been that Anne Hathaway is too bland an actress to pull off a femme fatale, like the catwoman in that panel above was clearly meant to be.

All the defenses have come to the aid of the script. The script was not the point, as the script clearly meant for this catwoman to be a maneater. See the part where she "kidnaps" the senator by seducing him, taking him on a days long bender, and in the end when he's shot in the leg and she abandons him in a grimy bar, his last words to her are a pathetic, "Call me..."

Sharon Stone pulled off that kind of role perfectly in "Casino." Anne Hathaway was still playing the nervous teenager she played in Princess Diaries and The Devil Wears Prada. She's freaking 30. This was her big chance to show some range and she blew it. Just because she's pretty doesn't mean you have to pretend she's any better at her job than she is.

To me, the "real" Batman movie trilogy is the Batman 60s movie, Batman Returns, and the Dark Knight. The theme is one of disillusionment, loss of innocence, but ultimately moral victory as Batman, hampered by his code of honor, fails to rescue the United Nations, then his inability to give up his duty as Batman loses the closest thing he ever had to a soulmate, and finally he's pushed by the Joker to the absolute limits of his own self-restraint, only to gain victory in the end when the people on the ferries show through their own ethical restraint that Batman isn't truly alone.

[GaijinPunch]

While the Burton movies are good in their own right, I always felt like I was watching a play adapted to a movie. I read the comics at the time though, so was quite critical.

[njiska]

While the Burton movies are good in their own right, I always felt like I was watching a play adapted to a movie.

That certainly wasn't helped by the fact that his Batman movies were shot almost entirely on sound stages. Even the outdoor scenes are clearly sets and for me that always made everything feel not like an adaptation of a play, but a straight recording of one.

[xbl0x180]

I hate "found locations" for sci-fi and adventure movies. It's lazy and cheap mise-en-scene

[Siren2011]

LOL @ "ITS ALL ALFREDS DREAM" theories on the IMDB boards regarding the ending. Christ that place is a retard breeding facility.

I hate IMDB's movie threads. It's to internet movie chatter what Gamefaqs is to pre-adolescent gamer jiving.

It's impossible for that to have been a dream, because Alfred had not even seen Catwoman's alter ego. He was a homebody of Wane Manor for practically his entire presence in the movie. So how in the fuck would he know what she looks like at the ending cafe scene??

[BIL]

Not to mention the third and final garage scene involving the autopilot where Fox goes "I feel so guilty! Wait, wut?! The autopilot was fixed six months ago?! By dat nigga Wayne?! Sheeeeeeeeeeit."

Unless it means BATMAN KILLED HIMSELF, LOL! (seriously, someone will argue that)

[Mischief Maker]

While the Burton movies are good in their own right, I always felt like I was watching a play adapted to a movie.

That certainly wasn't helped by the fact that his Batman movies were shot almost entirely on sound stages. Even the outdoor scenes are clearly sets and for me that always made everything feel not like an adaptation of a play, but a straight recording of one.

How can you go from defending Anne Hathaway's phoned-in performance one moment to sneering down your nose at Tim Burton's sumptuously designed sets the next and not get whiplash?

Sure beats watching someone playing Madden with the "crumbling field" mod applied.

By dat nigga Wayne?! Sheeeeeeeeeeit."

You're saying that Morgan Freeman is Black, I take it.

[njiska]

How can you go from defending Anne Hathaway's phoned-in performance one moment to sneering down your nose at Tim Burton's sumptuously designed sets the next and not get whiplash?

Sure beats watching someone playing Madden with the "crumbling field" mod applied.

Who said I was sneering at them? I love that it feels like a recorded play because it adds to the surrealism and that's what Tim Burton's Batman is all about.

[GaijinPunch]

How can you go from defending Anne Hathaway's phoned-in performance one moment to sneering down your nose at Tim Burton's sumptuously designed sets the next and not get whiplash?

I sneered. Well, not sneered. Just didn't like them as much, per se. That being said, I'm not much of a Burton fan. Don't hate. Don't like.

[Siren2011]

Anne Hathaway's phoned-in performance

I don't think you guys have the slightest inkling what a "phoned in performance" is.

Harrison Ford's acting in Blade Runner was "phoned-in", no matter what nostalgiafags and sci-fi buffs say.

Lori Petti's acting in Tank Girl was "phoned-in."

Shatner's acting in anything is "phoned-in".

Jonah Hill's existence is "phoned-in", etc.

Anne Hathaway's Catwoman was very far from being the best female performance in cinema history. But she did put in enough effort to be believable, in a sassy, answer-to-no-one attitude. How did you guys expect her to deliver her lines, in a melodramatic way or something?? STELLAAAA!! ...People are hilarious. Next thing you know they'll be demanding that all minor characters MUST be of equal importance to the lead roles, both from a writing and acting standpoint.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. By all means, continue your pointless attempts at criticism.

*SPOILERS*
Though I will agree with my friend who said that Bane's demise was slightly anti-climactic and swept under the rug to be quickly forgotten.
And for shit's sake, THEY SHOULD HAVE KILLED BATMAN WHEN THEY HAD THE CHANCE! That would have been immensely powerful. The film holds less emotional weight now that the sacrifice for Gotham's well-being was minimal. It would have been awesome to see another film destroy the trope, "The good guys always live at the end", though I doubt it would be the first.

I've heard everything from "This movie is too convoluted" (As if that's a bad thing. They probably hated Inception, too, because it wasn't shallow enough for them to understand in one sitting.) to "it was more emotional than it was smart" as a pejorative with no supporting reasons as to why this is so. Keep 'em coming, though. It's entertaining.

[blackoak]

I didn't think Hathaway's performance was that bad either. When I see people squabbling about acting, the impression I get is that their idea of believable behavior is based on an unanalyzed composite of people they've met in life. Its also hard for me to delineate where the bad script ends and the bad actor begins.

[xbl0x180]

"Minor characters" are sometimes called "supporting cast" - and they can get awards for their acting. I really doubt anne hathaway would get any kind of award, other than a razzie, for her "acting" abilities or lack thereof