STGT'12 planning thread

[njiska]

STGT'12: The Professionals (of falsificare)

don't care about that stuff, just want to have fun. If somebody is cheating, shame on them!

Why make a tournament if we are playing "just for fun"? If we play just for fun, then we shouldn't make a tournament or even have highscore threads. The competition is precisely what makes STGT so fun IMO. And why would submitting a replay ruin the fun? As I said, that would not only prevent cheating but serve as a tool for beginner players such as myself.

It's not like it's a huge effort or anything. Record your last runs, submit the best and that's it.

Friendly competition, is not the same as real competition. STGT is supposed to be about playing games you don't often play and having fun. The tournament format does encourage competition with teams and motivates players to try and do better. It helps you get more out of the games, but that's it. If anyone's ego is entirely dependent upon their position in a for fun tournament on a god damn forum, they are a sad, sad person indeed. That goes for both people who cheat to have high scores and those who feel threatened by them.

Being anal and asking for replays and score verification doesn't embrace the spirit of fun; it introduces a culture of doubt, mistrust and suspicion. These have no place in STGT. Frankly I don't care what rule is decided, but I'm not recording anything on principal alone. If it get's my score disqualified, then so be it.

Is playing with more FPS an "unfair advantage"?

I'd just tell people that one version has less FPS but feel free to use the other.
How about people playing shmups on PAL-50?

Depending on how the game is designed it may run slower or faster depending on the framerate. A LOT of 50Hz PAL version of 60Hz games are slow compared to the original and it affects gameplay. Similarly a PAL-50 designed game may play fast on a 60hz system.

I don't know how it is with ChoRenSha, but I imagine this is the logic behind the concern.

[Hagane]

I still don't see how competing is opposite of fun (in fact it makes the games much more interesting). Tournaments are all about competition, otherwise we should all stick to playing the games by ourselves. There's nothing wrong with trying to become better at the games than your opponent, and these kind of events could be great to boost the community's skill. Posting replays would be great not only to validate the scores, but to raise interest on these games even more, since you have replays to learn from.

Even if we are not getting real prizes, winning is fun and a prize on itself. Anyways, it's not like I will be able to win at any game, I just think the tournament would be better with replays. At least for the top 10 or something, so the "just for fun" players aren't affected.

[Krimzon Kitzune]

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[hwl]

STGT'12: The Professionals (of falsificare)

don't care about that stuff, just want to have fun. If somebody is cheating, shame on them!

Why make a tournament if we are playing "just for fun"? If we play just for fun, then we shouldn't make a tournament or even have highscore threads. The competition is precisely what makes STGT so fun IMO. And why would submitting a replay ruin the fun? As I said, that would not only prevent cheating but serve as a tool for beginner players such as myself.

It's not like it's a huge effort or anything. Record your last runs, submit the best and that's it.

Friendly competition, is not the same as real competition. STGT is supposed to be about playing games you don't often play and having fun. The tournament format does encourage competition with teams and motivates players to try and do better. It helps you get more out of the games, but that's it. If anyone's ego is entirely dependent upon their position in a for fun tournament on a god damn forum, they are a sad, sad person indeed. That goes for both people who cheat to have high scores and those who feel threatened by them.

Being anal and asking for replays and score verification doesn't embrace the spirit of fun; it introduces a culture of doubt, mistrust and suspicion. These have no place in STGT. Frankly I don't care what rule is decided, but I'm not recording anything on principal alone. If it get's my score disqualified, then so be it.

Good post. My thoughts exactly.

[bkk]

I'd like a little more clarity on the actual rules before I even commit to this kind of thing anymore.

Shooting Game Tournament 2012 is a friendly score competition among users of shmups.com. The score validation works like in the hi-score threads. You just play the game on PCB, emulator or any console port and post your score which you don't need to prove.

[Krimzon Kitzune]

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[Ed Oscuro]

I still don't see how competing is opposite of fun

Reading for comprehension, man. You've narrowly defined "competition" as only "hyper-serious verified compeititon," instead of its traditional STGT meaning of "have fun and you shouldn't cheat"

I just think the tournament would be better with replays.

Nobody is denying this either.

"Wouldn't it be nice..."

[njiska]

I'd like a little more clarity on the actual rules before I even commit to this kind of thing anymore.

Shooting Game Tournament 2012 is a friendly score competition among users of shmups.com. The score validation works like in the hi-score threads. You just play the game on PCB, emulator or any console port and post your score which you don't need to prove.

Thanks, I guess I missed that somehow. That definitely gives me peace of mind.

I do like to have something to show for my scores, so if replays are out for a certain game then I can show screenshots at least (and not feel too guilty or worried about it).

No one is saying you can't post that. It's pretty common for people to post high score screenshots. Often because some games loose the table if they're powered off. My only complaint has been against making validation mandatory.

I just think the tournament would be better with replays.

Nobody is denying this either.

"Wouldn't it be nice..."

As long it's voluntary there's nothing wrong with replays and if people want to upload them, power to them. My problem is when it becomes mandatory and a witch hunt happens if one doesn't exist.

[Erppo]

This conversation has become very stupid.

I don't want to take part in it any more than by pointing that I don't think anybody ever suggested having to record replays in the cases where it would require any more effort than starting the MAME game with a different command. Other than that, just refer to saucykobold's post if you want to know what I think.

[Jaimers]

How exactly is providing replays not in spirit of friendly competition and fun? It is exactly the sort of thing that enhances the experience for everybody involved as you can watch other players and learn from them.
It also has the beneficial side-effect that you can be certain that the competition is fair. Which is an essential for every competition ever.

I should also remind you that this only affects people who can realistically make it to the top 5 should it come to that. How everyone else is freaking out about this is beyond me as it doesn't immediately affect you.
And you would think that you would want to see the top people in action. I know I would.

[Hagane]

Ed:

Just saying that if you are making a tournament you might as well make it look like a tournament!

Again, it could be something for the top 10, so the "just for fun" guys are safe, since they most likely won't be getting anywhere close to that level and most of the good players here (the Touhou is Harder team, saucy, etc.; ie. the guys who will most likely be submitting top 10 scores) don't seem to have any problem with it.

[Naut]

It's pretty funny that some of the top players in the community who routinely score high in regular score threads and previous STGT years are arguing for making replays only mandatory for the top scores as a courtesy to lesser experienced players to watch and learn, but the less experienced players that would benefit the most from these replays are arguing against providing them. Shmups fucking forum.

Also, "just for fun" is the worst phrase in gaming ever, who honestly believes that those taking the competition more seriously than "one credit and forget it" aren't playing for fun. It's 99% of the reason somebody will play a videogame.

[Hagane]

I'm a less experienced player and would love to see replays!

I don't see how some people here are so adamant against them. It's better for the competition AND for improving skills. And if you want to play "just for fun" (not play seriously) you won't be affected by having to submit replays for top 5 or top 10 scores anyways.

[Illyrian]

If people want to post replays why would anyone be against that?

The fun in a compstition is doing your best and winning hopefully.

This is a fairly simple question

[Op Intensify]

Also, "just for fun" is the worst phrase in gaming ever

This.

[sikraiken]

I play for fun.

[Ed Oscuro]

It's true, I play for anger.

[CptRansom]

I play for the girls.

[Ed Oscuro]

Wouldn't it be nice if we could live together
in the kind of world where we belo-awww~awwng

I don't want to take part in it any more than by pointing that I don't think anybody ever suggested having to record replays in the cases where it would require any more effort than starting the MAME game with a different command.

I don't care how or when you think I have to record a replay, at all.

If I want to record a replay to help other people out (HA!) or somebody else is, of course that's something I welcome. It should not be mandatory for this tournament.

Just saying that if you are making a tournament you might as well make it look like a tournament!

We have teams with captains, we have rankings and game voting, and we have a (pretty strict, although I fear any flexibility here will offend you - the deadlines have been extended in the past!) deadlines.

How does not giving in to falsificare mania make it not "look like a tournament?" It certainly resembles one in every other respect (other than the impossibility of awarding prizes or requiring that people be there in person, which would have pretty much immediately done away with the falsification concerns, and also the ability for players to play as much as they liked).

You know, every now and then there is a controversy because some pro sports league won't implement instant replay for the officials. Baseball has this right - baseball fans don't care, it's up to the umpire to keep things going smoothly and civil.

[trap15]

I play for my waifu.

[Ed Oscuro]

I thought trap15 could be my waifu but was surprisingly disappointed it could not be so.

[Krimzon Kitzune]

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[Hagane]

pretty strict, although I fear any flexibility here will offend you - the deadlines have been extended in the past!) deadlines.

Making replays only mandatory for top 5-10 scores seems lax enough and a reasonable middle point between the two extremes, but you didn't address that in your post. How, exactly, would it hurt you or any of the "playing casually is the only way to have fun" guys?

[2D•TRON]

Is this still the planning thread?

I'm looking forward to the Shooting Game Tournament 12.
It will be the first as I have just reacquainted myself with the good ol shmup and happened to stumble upon this forum packed full of others hooked with the STG fever.

As a newcomer I am not put off by the proposal of a Replay for score verification on top 5-10 places, mainly as I don't assume to be there.
If I was:
- I would certainly want to share my achievement with others and go about doing what I could to prove my table topping score.
After all that seems only reasonable and fair seeing as what looks like over a hundred forum comrades will be participating for over 4 weeks. most of us will look on in awe at the high scores that top the charts, and I for one would like to see it.

[Krimzon Kitzune]

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[Hagane]

That would only happen with the doujin week, and since a snapshot would be the only way (well, you could use a recording program but not everyone has a PC powerful enough for that) to provide proof of your score I guess that should be the only proof required. For everything else, anyone posting here can do a MAME replay.

[Krimzon Kitzune]

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[Chaos Phoenixma]

If Raiden Fighters actually does make it into this, I wouldn't be playing it on MAME.

I also wouldn't be getting in the top 10.

[Krimzon Kitzune]

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[njiska]

This is still a stupid debate for three reasons:

- There's two many what-ifs to make it work. (WolfMame, Regular mame, non-mame games, stupid NVRAm deletions).
- By assuming people are going to cheat you're going against the spirit of the competition
- This has never been a problem in the history of the STGT, so there's no reason to change the rules now.

More to the point the rules are already set. That's pretty much the end of it.