Checked out the 3rd Batman flick, The Dark Knight Rises?

[Specineff]

My two cents about the shooting:

F**ker would have found another way to harm people even if guns were entirely non-existant. I can go to an outdoors or home improvement home and buy a crossbow, machete, circular saws, a gas-powered chainsaw, muriatic acid, an industrial sprayer and harmful or corrosive chemicals that can be used to harm people at close range or at distance, if not kill. (I'm sure a clay pigeon launcher machine can be adapted into a circle saw launcher, or a tennis ball machine can be rigged to throw projectiles filled with harmful chemicals. Hydrofluoric acid-loaded paintball guns, anyone?). Yes, I know guns are intended to bring harm from the beginning, but all those are inanimate objects. It was the conscious choice of Mr. Sh!thead to use a means to bring harm to another person, so the availability or scarcity of those means wouldn't have really deterred him from finding a way once he had made his mind. The most guns he can use at a time are two, and all he needed to kill those guys was just one gun with one full clip. Hope he gets bat-raped without bat-lube on the way to maximum security prison.


On the movie, I guess that nothing can be worse than Halle Berry's Catwoman, so Anne Hathaway's isn't going to keep me from going to watch it.

[D]

The thing is that if this happened in some poor far away country, the media attention wouldn´t be this big. This happens all over the world, but when it happens in the States, CNN and all other news channels media all over the world will let the people know. So yeah, it´s the media attention that causes this view of America being full of people that do these mass murders. I feel very sorry for the people and children hurt and family grieving. I am though still going to have to see this movie. I wonder if the shooter even saw the movie at all. Good to hear the movie is very long. I like long movies. There are also some pretty cool Batman animated movies, those are recommended for viewing. I wish Spider-man had animated movies. The cartoons suck, but I can´t look away. The only good Spider-man cartoon is the 1994 animated series. That is easily the best ever non-Japanese Animated cartoon.

[Specineff]

Aw, no love for 1960's Spiderman? That was light-years ahead of the crap Hanna-Barbera was churning out at the time (except Johnny Quest). And yes, it was a bit campy, but at least Spiderman punched Mysterio all the way to the end of a movie set's western bar. I want to see the first Ninja Turtles cartoon do that! (Sorry for the derail. I'm going to bed now)

[SuperPang]

With the greatest of respect to our American friends and without wishing to derail further, Skykid is right. Your right to bear arms simply allows nutters the ability to do more damage. A quick googling found this...

Number of Murders, United States, 2009: 15,241
Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2009: 9,146
Number of Murders, Britain, 2008: 648
(Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,240 US murders)
Number of Murders by firearms, Britain, 2008 39
(equivalent to 195 US murders)

If that's true, 60% of murders in the US were gun crimes compared to 6% here. And this isn't me blowing Britain's trumpet, we have a lot of crime issues to figure out ourselves and I would imagine more gun crime than much of Europe.

The guy bought 6,000 rounds of ammunition online FFS.

[Skykid]

+1 for Anne Hathaway being the most poorly casted cat woman of all time

Halle Berry?

Also, Nolan is very poor at casting leading ladies iirc. Katie Holmes? Fail. Maggie Gyllenhall? Ultra (Ultra) Fail. Hathaway: Seems odd but I haven't seen the movie.

If that's true, 60% of murders in the US were gun crimes compared to 6% here. And this isn't me blowing Britain's trumpet, we have a lot of crime issues to figure out ourselves and I would imagine more gun crime than much of Europe.

Indeed, we've been battling escalating knife crime and violence in poorer neighbourhoods, the result of a slack welfare system. But the US has had 11 school related shootings since 2010 according to this list.

Population statistics/risk statistics aside, the right to bear arms creates a sense of normalcy about carrying deadly weapons where there really shouldn't be any, encouraging every fruitcake with a chip on their shoulder to pop down to walmart, grab some milk, eggs and Glock and then act on impulse. Take away the tools and the death toll will fall.

[Vamos]

Well halle berry was wipe from memory tier , i guess for me michelle pfeiffer set the standard .

[louisg]

F**ker would have found another way to harm people even if guns were entirely non-existant. I can go to an outdoors or home improvement home and buy a crossbow, machete, circular saws, a gas-powered chainsaw, muriatic acid, an industrial sprayer and harmful or corrosive chemicals that can be used to harm people at close range or at distance, if not kill. (I'm sure a clay pigeon launcher machine can be adapted into a circle saw launcher, or a tennis ball machine can be rigged to throw projectiles filled with harmful chemicals. Hydrofluoric acid-loaded paintball guns, anyone?). Yes, I know guns are intended to bring harm from the beginning, but all those are inanimate objects. It was the conscious choice of Mr. Sh!thead to use a means to bring harm to another person, so the availability or scarcity of those means wouldn't have really deterred him from finding a way once he had made his mind. The most guns he can use at a time are two, and all he needed to kill those guys was just one gun with one full clip. Hope he gets bat-raped without bat-lube on the way to maximum security prison.

He probably would've used dogs with bees in their mouths and when they bark they shoot bees at you, because those are totally every bit as available as guns and every bit as deadly when fired into a crowd.

But yeah, if everyone in the theater were armed.. OK, if they were armed with something besides a handgun. OK, if they were armed and all had infrared and a gas mask... they could've prevented this!!!!!

[Mischief Maker]

+1 for Anne Hathaway being the most poorly casted cat woman of all time

Halle Berry?

Catwoman was a terrible movie...

...and Halle Berry was a sexier and more interesting Catwoman than Anne Hathaway.

Hathaway spent the whole movie acting like an uncomfortable teenager trying her hardest to appear blase. Better to be hammy than boring. Heath Ledger wasn't riveting because his performance was "realistic."

[BrianC]

Hathaway spent the whole movie acting like an uncomfortable teenager trying her hardest to appear blase. Better to be hammy than boring. Heath Ledger wasn't riveting because his performance was "realistic."

You misunderstood. I didn't say Anne Hathaway was the best catwoman out there and I do feel Eartha Kitt and Michelle Phiffer are better actresses (and the latter was the best movie Catwoman, from what I remember). I wasn't expecting much from Hathaway and I was surprised that I liked her as Catwoman. I personally didn't find her to be boring. I don't understand why you keep "correcting" me and talking to me like a five year old over a minor difference in OPINION. Please stop telling me things like "Heath Ledger wasn't riveting because his performance was "realistic.". I'm a bit puzzled that you assumed I was saying that I liked Anne Hathaway because she's realistic, when I was simply saying that I feel the performences for 60s Batman and modern Batman aren't comparable becuase they are different beasts. I know full well your point is that Eartha Kitt is a better actress and better at being sexy. I don't want this to be a back and forth, but I want to get my point across that I'm getting sick and tired of these internet posts that shrug off most of what someone says with replies that make false assumptions.

[Specineff]

But yeah, if everyone in the theater were armed.. OK, if they were armed with something besides a handgun. OK, if they were armed and all had infrared and a gas mask... they could've prevented this!!!!!

Did you know the word "Hyperbole" is not in the dictionary?

He could have killed as many people by simply driving into them with a truck. And he wouldn't need to call himself "The Road Warrior" to do it, or put spikes on the front of the vehicle. All he needs is to know how to drive, and the will to use the means to carry out his desire.

[Mischief Maker]

[SuperXGamma]

Julie Newmar was the best CatWoman EVA!

[Jonathan Ingram]

He could have killed as many people by simply driving into them with a truck.

Or flying a plane/helicopter into them.

[xbl0x180]

Or driving a truck with a bomb in it, like a Christian separatist

[greg]

The guy obviously did not see the sign saying that no firearms were allowed in the movie theater. They should've made the sign bigger, and maybe have it lit up with neon lights to match the external neon decor of the theater. The victims' families should sue the theater for not making the sign big enough.

[Nate]

I'm a little perturbed no one has mentioned (my personal favorite) "Batman Returns"! Everything really started going "downhill" after that one.

[GaijinPunch]

Doesn't open here for a week, so staying out of this thread.
Thanks for the spoiler warnings, Mischief Maker... figured that was my clue to not read any more in the thread..

Just wanted to point out how fucking stupid Japanese producers are. A week isn't bad. But surely... why not jump on board w/ the rest of the world? Prometheus isn't even out until the end of August. Fuck the wut, bitch?

Not sure if I preferred either one of the previous two over the other. I thought they were both great in their own right.

[cj iwakura]

Loved the film. Possibly my favorite of the three, I loved how it brought it all full circle.

And the guy running the tribunal? PERFECT.

[greg]

Just wanted to point out how fucking stupid Japanese producers are. A week isn't bad. But surely... why not jump on board w/ the rest of the world? Prometheus isn't even out until the end of August. Fuck the wut, bitch?

I just want to see The Avengers, which isn't out in Japan yet. I kinda want to see Promethius too, but I've already heard that it's a letdown with poor character motivations.

I really want to see Moonrise Kingdom, but I doubt if that will ever be released here. Most people don't get Wes Anderson-style humor, least of all Japanese people.

[Ed Oscuro]

But yeah, if everyone in the theater were armed.. OK, if they were armed with something besides a handgun. OK, if they were armed and all had infrared and a gas mask... they could've prevented this!!!!!

So far there's no evidence that the tear gas made people run in the wrong way or not know who the bad guy was. In fact, there's ample evidence of the contrary. In the initial reports, for example, one person noticed the guy was wearing a gas mask. In later examples it's clear that some people realized what he was doing after an initial moment of confusion - before the tear gas could even dissipate enough to blur anybody's vision.

Seemingly a full half of the anti-gun crowd will say "why didn't the cops shoot the gun out of his hands," while the other will say "even if you had a nuclear weapon you couldn't have stopped it." That CCW permit holders might actually have more range time and accuracy than many cops, and that even some modern snubnose revolver designs are quite powerful and accurate enough to hit a bad guy at a fair distance, doesn't seem to be common knowledge. Ditto for performance under stress - cops should be trained, but training has been no replacement for the real deal, and most cops go through their careers without pulling their weapon in anger.

Any problems that would exist for people at the scene with concealed handguns would be far worse for first responders (unless you're talking about SWAT; the shooter may well have killed himself, surrendered, or killed everybody by the time SWAT arrives; typically, police that respond are called in by reports of the violence and don't get there until the shooter has had ample time to do what they were planning to). In fact, the police typically don't barge in to scenes like this because they don't want to get shot for no gain. And anybody who did try to enter the theater probably would be entering the dark theater from a brightly lit exterior corridor, and wouldn't have the same knowledge that people who had been sitting there did. Basically, if the bad guy has the element of surprise, a typical-looking person with a concealed gun would have only a bit less surprise (there is only one instance I know of where a private individual tried to stop a spree shooter; unfortunately, the bad guy had body armor in that case and shrugged off the attack). A police officer entering from outside would be more focused on acclimating to the situation, and that doesn't help executing a surprise attack.

Now, when I say "the element of surprise," I don't necessarily mean shooting the bad guy on sight. A private person can attempt to talk down the bad guy at gunpoint (and this is actually how the bulk of conflicts are resolved by private weapon owners; attempted muggings or robberies and the like), although they really don't have a duty to do so, because the bad guy ostensibly is not going to be too worried about trying to pull off the Mozambique drill or just starts shooting wildly again. There's nothing too magical about the police response here; if somebody is shooting in a case like this, nobody is really going to care if there is a hasty decision made. Should care be taken by private weapon holders not to misinterpret situations? Well, yes, and so should the police, and everybody else with firearms.

[Mischief Maker]

I'm surprised that with all the finger waggling about gun control in this thread, no one's mentioned how ridiculously right-wing this movie is *spoilerz*:

There's the aforementioned slippery-slope argument the movie makes that the occupy movement's calls for economic justice will lead us directly into stalinism.

A CIA agent threatens to take a black-hooded prisoner on a Death Flight and it turns out his "enhanced" interrogation techniques are 100% warranted.

The lie at the end of TDK results in a draconian piece of legislation called the PATRIOT Act, I mean the Harvey Dent Act, which is the most wonderful law ever written and has resulted in THE ENTIRE MOB being put behind bars. Some liberals have said now that Osama is Dead, I mean now that the crime emergency is over, the Harvey Dent act should be repealed. "Not on my watch!"

Investing money in alternative energy research has nearly bankrupted Bruce Wayne. Money that would have been invested in worthy charities like Robin's orphanage.

Bane's cultured demure English accent marks him as an affront to gravelly-voiced manliness.

When blue collar cops tell jagoff stock brokers that protecting their stocks is a lower priority than saving hostages, the cops are quickly shamed and set straight by a man who understands the big picture.

Robin frowns on Commissioner Gordon hiding the truth from the public. Gordon spits back that "the system" with its requirement for "due process" was preventing the police from cleaning up the streets. Only by deceiving the electorate and passing the Harvey Dent Act were the cops able to fix Gotham. Commissioner Gordon is 100% vindicated in Robin's eyes by the end of the movie.

A non-Caucasian, liberal, sexually liberated woman turns out to be greatest evil of all.

And of course...

Catwoman resents Paris Hilton, I mean Bruce Wayne, for being born into money and never wanting for anything and threatens that one day his life of privilege at the expense of the poor will come to an end, unaware that the entirety of his fortune has been accumulated for the sake of helping the poor, and only Bruce Wayne is smart enough to put that money into use effectively. Once Catwoman sees firsthand her beliefs in action, she abandons her pursuit of social mobility by stealing from the 1% and gets her social mobility by marrying into the 1% instead.

It may not be 300, but still!

[cj iwakura]

Well, it's more likely Wayne married into the 99%. He wasn't exactly rolling in dough.

[louisg]

(lots of well-argued stuff)

If we assume we have this dream society where a higher percentage of the populace is armed, the last thing you'd still want are multiple people drawing and shooting in a crowded theater full of panicked people (where I'd also assume the CCW holders would be a bit panicked themselves, not really used to facing down some guy with assault rifles and body armor). Your argument isn't bad, but I don't know how realistic it is to assume that concealed weapon holders will be prepared for something like this (or the cops prepared to handle a bunch of freaked out civilians wielding guns). Plus, people thought the guy was just some dork in costume until he started opening fire. I read one person even saw him in the parking lot beforehand and didn't think anything of it.

I've heard a lot of pro-gun arguments about preventing crime, I've had plenty of friends who are pro-gun, and I've reached these conclusions: It's a fantasy argument pitched by angry people who feel powerless. Everyone thinks they'll be the one to execute some kind of dramatic rescue, and that CCW holders are some kind of magical super-well-trained force. And nobody stops to think anything of what it might mean to escalate situations such as robberies by opening fire. Hey, it worked in the movies, right? And I think people get really pissed off because they *know* their arguments are ridiculous. They want to just be able to say, "Hey, I love my guns, and I don't want anyone to take them", which is a much more valid argument that I would agree with instead of the arguments I hear, which actually contradict themselves a good deal of the time.

We have a lot of easy access to guns already. Are we safer for it? Every time, it's "oh it didn't work THAT time because we need even *fewer* laws". Just like tax cuts and deregulation.

EDIT: Someone just posted this on FB: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quote ... 24859.html -- I guess Burroughs would have an axe to grind about gun control, given that he killed his wife in a drunken game of William Tell. William S. Burroughs, ever the model of responsible gun ownership. No, they weren't being ironic.

[Mischief Maker]

Well, it's more likely Wayne married into the 99%. He wasn't exactly rolling in dough.

Yet he's eating at that fancy restaurant in Europe? Offshore tax havens, my friend.

Or are you assuming that his obligation for law and order only applied to Gotham City and now he and Catwoman are supporting themselves by leveraging his ninja stealth and her safecracking skills and robbing Europe blind? Oh my god, Batman turned into Diabolik!

[xbl0x180]

Well, it's more likely Wayne married into the 99%. He wasn't exactly rolling in dough.

Oh my god, Batman turned into Diabolik!

I would watch this, but only if Chris Nolan is NOT directing

[cj iwakura]

Well, it's more likely Wayne married into the 99%. He wasn't exactly rolling in dough.

Oh my god, Batman turned into Diabolik!

I would watch this, but only if Chris Nolan is NOT directing

I'd give it to Nathanial Hornblower.

[Mischief Maker]

Well, it's more likely Wayne married into the 99%. He wasn't exactly rolling in dough.

Oh my god, Batman turned into Diabolik!

I would watch this, but only if Chris Nolan is NOT directing

We'd also need a different actor playing Batman. Anne Hathaway isn't the only one at fault for the lack of chemistry between her and Christian Bale.

Though Joseph Gordon-Levitt, playing Robin, had all kinds of chemistry with him; which is in keeping with Batman canon.

I can't wait for the extended cut DVD where Robin, upon discovering the Batcave and getting swarmed by bats, reacts by stripping down to a red undershirt and a pair of green briefs. A Hero is Born.

[Skykid]

I would watch this, but only if Chris Nolan is NOT directing

We'd also need a different actor playing Batman.

Now you're speaking my language.

[cj iwakura]

I like Bale as Wayne, especially billionaire Wayne, it's his Batman that's lacking, but tolerable.

[xbl0x180]

I never liked his lisp. It might've worked in American Psycho, but it's tedious to see and listen to anywhere else