Searching for a Gaming TV

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
User avatar
blizzz
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:19 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by blizzz »

I've been playing around with the thought of replacing my beloved HP w2448hc (24" glossy) monitor for a bigger TV. Bigger meaning 32"-42" max for me. I've never bought a flatscreen TV, so I'm a bit lost with the options. I'm looking into Panasonic Plasma sets right now, but maybe someone can give me advice or point me in the right direction. Price limit isn't the sky, but let's say a tall tree.

What I absolutely need are:
- 1080p
- HDMI (one is enough, more appreciated)
- VGA (for linedoubler + SLG3000)
- Component
- Low input lag (16-30ms)
- Dark black, vivid colours (no dull TN LCD look)
- Good upscaling from 480p and 720p
- No high pitched noise (makes me insane)

Optional:
- 3D, never been a big fan of 3D but maybe the next console generation has some intersting uses for it
- Energy saving

What I don't need:
- WLAN, Ethernet, Media Player, TV Tuner and other fancy crap

:)
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13041
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by Fudoh »

I would recommend a Sony LCD over a Panasonic plasma if you're ok with the extra money the Sony costs over the Panasonic. The Sony HX855 (available in 40 and 46") is a marvelous TV, but it's nearly double the price of a mid-range 42" Panasonic plasma.
User avatar
blizzz
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:19 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by blizzz »

Fudoh wrote:I would recommend a Sony LCD over a Panasonic plasma if you're ok with the extra money the Sony costs over the Panasonic. The Sony HX855 (available in 40 and 46") is a marvelous TV, but it's nearly double the price of a mid-range 42" Panasonic plasma.
What could the Sony HX855 possibly do better than the Panasonic that it's worth the 700€ more (other than the lower power consumption which would save ~20€ per year)?
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13041
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by Fudoh »

VGA Input (which the mid-range Panasonics don't have.)
FANTASTIC Motionflow function for movies (you go Sony once, you'll never watch a movie on a different brand).
SILENT (well, some Panasonics are, but not too many)
Better Scaling than the Panasonic.

The Panasonic wins on the low-res (240p) processing when directly connected.
User avatar
BuckoA51
Posts: 3392
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:08 am
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by BuckoA51 »

Doesn't the Panasonic have less input lag? 24ms vs 28. Does Motionflow make much difference if you watch at 24p anyway? Yeah I know it does that cool pseudo 48fps thing if you want it to, I'd take decreased lag over that though.
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
User avatar
emphatic
Posts: 7991
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:47 pm
Location: Alingsås, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by emphatic »

So Panasonic doesn't offer VGA on all models no more? :?
Image | My games - http://www.emphatic.se
RegalSin wrote:Street Fighters. We need to aviod them when we activate time accellerator.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13041
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by Fudoh »

Doesn't the Panasonic have less input lag? 24ms vs 28.
yes, that's right.
Does Motionflow make much difference if you watch at 24p anyway?
I can't watch a 24p movie on a different display anymore. On the Sony you can chose between 24, 48, 72 and 96fps and 48 is just awesome. Kepps the film look 100% but eliminates the 24p judder.
Yeah I know it does that cool pseudo 48fps thing if you want it to, I'd take decreased lag over that though.
I would recommend a HX7 or HX9 since they get into the 35-45ms lag area, but the HX8 is sub-2-frames and that's perfectly ok. Yes, SOME Panasonics are a few ms faster, but you can't notice that, not even if you have them side by side.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13041
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by Fudoh »

So Panasonic doesn't offer VGA on all models no more?
I think the top VTxx models still have VGA.
User avatar
blizzz
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:19 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by blizzz »

Fudoh wrote:VGA Input (which the mid-range Panasonics don't have.)
The Panasonic TX-P42GT30E came up when I filtered for TVs with VGA input, but that seems to be an error :/ If it had VGA I'd buy it, but this way I'd have to keep my old monitor for the SLG3000 and that's not really what I want.

How about the cheaper Sony TVs. KDL-40EX655 seems to be a decent 2D TV, but I can't find any good review of it. There's also the HX755, which seems to be the same but with 3D support for 200€ more. So I take that the EX655 also has 2-3 frames delay? The HX855 is a bit above what I'd like to pay for a display size upgrade.

Fudoh wrote:
So Panasonic doesn't offer VGA on all models no more?
I think the top VTxx models still have VGA.
The TX-P42VT20 is the last with VGA and that one is not sold anymore.
User avatar
ryu
Posts: 2212
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:43 pm
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by ryu »

is viewing angle much of a problem on the sony hx855? it seems like it'd be worth it saving up and replacing my low-budget plasma with this, but the way i've set things up i'd be looking upwards from a lower position at it most of the time. :?
blog - scores - collection
Don't worry about it. You can travel from the Milky Way to Andromeda and back 1500 times before the sun explodes.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13041
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by Fudoh »

is viewing angle much of a problem on the sony hx855?
not at all.
User avatar
blizzz
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:19 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by blizzz »

The HX855 looked really great in store, but I've decided for the cheaper EX655. Ordered it yesterday and it arrived today. Input lag feels the same as my w2448c (which has 17-23 ms) and the picture quality is great (for the price of 550€). The downsides are that it doesn't accept 240p SCART (interpreted as 480i) and RGBs VGA. Guess I'll have to replace my self made RGBs polarity inverter and buy a decent one that supports RGBHV, or upgrade from my Picture Optimizer to a version that outputs the right polarity for the SLG3000. Quite happy with it so far but I've still got 30 days to change my mind and send it back :D
kowski77
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by kowski77 »

I'm just in the market for a new TV myself and really like the EX655 as well. But where did you get it for 550€?
User avatar
blizzz
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:19 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by blizzz »

kowski77 wrote:I'm just in the market for a new TV myself and really like the EX655 as well. But where did you get it for 550€?
Got it from Amazon.de WarehouseDeals, they still have 2 for 560€. They sell the ones that were returned by customers after testing for 10-20% off. In Germany you have the right to send stuff back within 14 days (30 on Amazon) without any reasons, so many just order multiple devices to compare them at home. The one I got had no marks at all even though they wrote "might have minor scratches on the front".
kowski77
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by kowski77 »

Thanks blizz. I'm German as well so this would actually be quite comfortable for me. Of course I'll need to think this all through but I'm torn between these three models: HX855, HX755 and EX655. Maybe I'll just spend a little more and get the HX855 after all the amazon warehouse deals look sweet for this as well :)
kowski77
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:11 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by kowski77 »

I gave it some good thinking and bought the HX855. The price markup to the 755 is significant but worth the money if you are a true film lover like I am:). Splendid device!

To be honest: The only system I'm currently playing, my PS3 as an exeption, is my beloved Super Nintendo. I wanted to buy a Framemeister but maybe it' s a bit of an ovekill for just one retro-machine.

Is it possible to tweak the HX855 settings to make 240P look decent on the TV?
Maybe some of you could suggest some settings or tell me if it is possible at all (doesn't look too bad with standard settings after all)?

Thanks for you help!
User avatar
ryu
Posts: 2212
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:43 pm
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by ryu »

so i can expect the hx855 to have a continuous input lag of about 28ms when feeding 1080p through hdmi? would it be noticably lower when using the vga or pc-hdmi inputs?
blog - scores - collection
Don't worry about it. You can travel from the Milky Way to Andromeda and back 1500 times before the sun explodes.
User avatar
lettuce
Posts: 1336
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:10 pm
Location: Bedfordshire, England.

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by lettuce »

Sharp Aquos range all the way!!!, they use the best damn panels going!. Dont fall into the marketing BS that is Sony Brava.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13041
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by Fudoh »

That's why my Sony uses a Sharp panel...
so i can expect the hx855 to have a continuous input lag of about 28ms when feeding 1080p through hdmi? would it be noticably lower when using the vga or pc-hdmi inputs?
all the same.
User avatar
ryu
Posts: 2212
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:43 pm
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by ryu »

i've been looking for alternatives to a sony hx855 since a) i'd be paying for quite a few features i don't even need and b) i've read that ccfl backlight lcds show better colors than led lcds. does anyone know if nec's public displays lcds are any good (looking into this one here)?
i'm mostly interested in whether they have even more fancy video processing than regular tvs and could have terrible input lag (though i'm hoping for even less processing than on tvs).
blog - scores - collection
Don't worry about it. You can travel from the Milky Way to Andromeda and back 1500 times before the sun explodes.
alamone
Posts: 742
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:32 pm

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by alamone »

I've tried a public display by Mitsubishi, it ended up having about 6 frames of lag.
My recommendation is Panasonic TC-L37E3 or L32. These are Alpha-IPS with low lag (about 1 frame) and no buffering electronics.
Larger screens go into LG territory with buffering and lag. Also they have to be that particular model as they replaced them with cheaper panels
in the newer ones. I've done a lot of research on this and this is the largest low latency TV I could find that was reasonably available.
User avatar
ryu
Posts: 2212
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:43 pm
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by ryu »

alamone wrote:I've tried a public display by Mitsubishi, it ended up having about 6 frames of lag.
when was that?
alamone wrote:My recommendation is Panasonic TC-L37E3 or L32. These are Alpha-IPS with low lag (about 1 frame) and no buffering electronics.
can't find that particular model on any of the major shopping sites. is it even that good aside from the low input lag? besides, i was looking for a 46" display anyways :/
edit: actually what you mentioned appears to be a model that's not available in europe (or germany, at least). at least i don't see which of the models available in germany could be the same as your's.
blog - scores - collection
Don't worry about it. You can travel from the Milky Way to Andromeda and back 1500 times before the sun explodes.
User avatar
ryu
Posts: 2212
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:43 pm
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by ryu »

so am i guessing right that anything specified as above 60hz on an lcd refers to motion interpolation processing?
blog - scores - collection
Don't worry about it. You can travel from the Milky Way to Andromeda and back 1500 times before the sun explodes.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13041
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by Fudoh »

no, it can also refer to a black frame insertion, which keeps motion as it is, but speeds up the display response time... - that's especially true for the 120Hz advertisements.

Also Motion interpolation never works on 60fps material.
User avatar
ryu
Posts: 2212
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:43 pm
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by ryu »

Fudoh wrote:Also Motion interpolation never works on 60fps material.
does that mean it will screw the picture up or will it just not even activate unless film-based material is displayed? i just read that motion interpolation is a contributing factor to input lag which is why most displays let you turn it off

i'm still trying to see if a nec would be a feasible solution. it appears like their public displays should be largely lag free if set up correctly. a few minutes ago i realized almost all of these displays have a 120hz option in the osd that can not be adjusted. that made me wonder if it could possibly be turned off in a service menu ... guess i'd have to ask around for that. though maybe it's not something to worry about anyways, if i'm guessing right that the black frame insertion on 120hz you mentioned does not add much processing time.
blog - scores - collection
Don't worry about it. You can travel from the Milky Way to Andromeda and back 1500 times before the sun explodes.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13041
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by Fudoh »

the feature will still impact the input lag, even with 60fps sources, because a cadence detection running is running in the background trying to find 2:2 or 3:2 cadences....
User avatar
ryu
Posts: 2212
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:43 pm
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by ryu »

Fudoh wrote:the feature will still impact the input lag, even with 60fps sources, because a cadence detection running is running in the background trying to find 2:2 or 3:2 cadences....
so you turn it off (i guess with game mode on most displays), alright. apparently the hx855 gets a lot of shit for banding and/or having a "dirty screen effect". can you tell me what that means and if it's really something to be concerned about if the display is used for games? (thinking it might be a side-effect of the motionflow).
people seem to be using those two terms wrongl and interchangably anyways if i'm seeing things correctly
blog - scores - collection
Don't worry about it. You can travel from the Milky Way to Andromeda and back 1500 times before the sun explodes.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13041
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by Fudoh »

Originally the term "banding" was used for color-banding, which is some kind of solarization effect. Think of a 6-bit panel compared to a 8-bit one....

Nowadays vertical banding refers to something different. DSE is the same, but DSE can have all kinds of forms (cloudy for example), while vertical banding shows in thick vertical bands where the screen is darker. It's a uniformity problem. Clouding, DSE and banding are panel problems caused during production by stress on the panel.

Heavy banding can be visible on static images (especially bright ones), but banding in general, even light one, is a problem with horizontal pans, e.g. when you watch a soccer match. It depends on what your eyes focus on. Watch out of the window! If you focus on the glass you'll see dirt (if there's any), but if you focus on the other side of the street, you'll hardly notice the dirt anymore. It's the same with banding or DSE. If you watch a hi-detail Full HD movie, even on pans you'll hardly notice banding since your eyes are focused on the details. Watch a CG movie with low detail and wait for a pan - oh god - there it is - visible as hell.

I would say it's less a problem with video games, but more for movie watching. Still, if you get heavy banding, it can be a nuisance for games as well.

All these effects have nothing to do with motion interpolation.

And on another note: if you turn off the motion interpolation (e.g. in game mode) then the motion resolution on LCDs will drop a lot. Many LCDs incl. the sony ones drop from 1000+ lines to 300-400 lines of motion resolution without interframe creation, while Plasma screens will retain their motion resolution even without those features.
User avatar
ryu
Posts: 2212
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:43 pm
Contact:

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by ryu »

interesting. more interesting is that i've actually seen some of these things in some forms before. like the hdbox pro introduced a lot of colour banding when i was using it.

vertical soundings sounds pretty bad to me. all of my trinitron crts actually have something similar, only they got bright lines appearing on dark images.
Watch a CG movie with low detail and wait for a pan - oh god - there it is - visible as hell.
i watch a lot of animated stuff, so that doesn't sound too good to me. :?

is the low motion resolution on lcds very bad? i can't really imagine that and don't think i've ever seen an lcd without motion interpolation yet too. a friend has a pretty old sharp lcd that looks fine in motion, but i'm not sure if there is any motion interpolation going on. there's at least no noticable input lag with hd sources and it doesn't feature a game mode either (or probably anything to cutt off some processing for that matter).
blog - scores - collection
Don't worry about it. You can travel from the Milky Way to Andromeda and back 1500 times before the sun explodes.
User avatar
evil_ash_xero
Posts: 6251
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 am
Location: Where the fish lives

Re: Searching for a Gaming TV

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Any opinions on the Panasonic VIERA TC-L37E5? I'm really interested in buying this, but can't find out what kind of input lag it has.

Help!
Post Reply