The Daytona 2001 thread

[louisg]

Well, I didn't see a thread on this game, so I decided it was time. After putting NFS: The Run aside for a little, I was going through my DC collection and got re-addicted to the 2001 port of Daytona USA. When it came out, I didn't like it much-- it wasn't that close to the arcade version in handling, the AI felt toned down, and the extra tracks were ho-hum aside from the Daytona:CCE additions (seriously, did we really need 3 extra oval and oval-like tracks?). Over the years, I'd take it out, play it a little, then get distracted with something else.

But I think this game has several really neat things going for it: The physics are deep. They feel deeper than a lot of semi-sims. At the same time, it's very unrealistic. It's an interesting combination. Most arcade racers go for more of a 'drift mode' feel-- you tap the break, and it's almost like steering suddenly handles differently for a second or two. This one makes you shift out of order, play with the throttle, and actively counter-steer in a subtle way in order to either keep a drift going or to force the wheels to suddenly catch. Second, all of the cars have a dramatically different feel, even though they're (like the physics) stylized and unrealistic. It makes me want to master each track with each car (though I've generally had the best luck with the Falcon). Third, I find it very aesthetically appealing. It's like a hyperactively arcadey, super cheerful, cartoonish version of stock car racing.

Anyway, if anyone here wants to compete, start posting times! Oh, and if anyone new to it wants to check it out: wheel highly recommended. And if you have to play with a pad, be sure to get the US edition and tone the analog sensitivity down a couple notches in the options. And use the Falcon (or Grasshopper) until you get the hang of it (Hornet is powerful but freakin' hard to use).


BEST TIMES SO FAR:
Gabe - Three Seven Speedway (8 Laps) : 02'26"750 - lap 00'17"750 <Falcon>
Gabe - Dinosaur Canyon (4 laps) : 3'10"078 - lap 00'44"781 <Lightning>
Gabe - Sea Side Street Galaxy (2 Laps) : 3'29"156 - lap 1'41"920 <Falcon>
Lou - National Park Speedway (6 laps) : 3'59"984 - lap 00'36"139 <Falcon>

[TransatlanticFoe]

Fairly sure I used Lightning most of the time to start with until I'd unlocked everything but that's because I've always been a fan of straight line speed in racing games. Wrestling the Unicorn (a Ford Mustang basically, if I remember right) around was great fun and tough to keep in a straight line. It's all boxed away somewhere for the next couple of months, so I can't share any times.

[D]

Back in the days I never knew it had a drift system where you have to shift down and up to execute drifts, so I was never any good. I got the hang of drifting in the ps3 version, so now I want to drift on those extra tracks found in the DC version as well. Now I don´t have a DC anymore

[gabe]

I played this game casually when it first came out, but I haven't touched it since. This line made me scratch my head:

... This one makes you shift out of order...

Needless to say, I didn't fully understand the drift mechanic until tonight... And now that I do, it's like a whole new game!

Keeping that in mind, I decided I had better learn to crawl before I learn to walk. I spent my evening driving around Three Seven Speedway, learning to drift in turn 3, and trying to figure out how to best map the buttons on my wheel.

Three Seven Speedway (8 Laps) : 02'26"750 - lap 00'17"750 <Falcon>

[louisg]

OK, I changed the first post to be "best times so far". I've been playing in single race mode, but I don't think it'll change the times much aside from two things: Having to avoid the CPU cars (obvious), and in time attack, some people blaze through the pit lane to shorten times (less obvious). I don't use the pit lane, so if someone posts a time with that, lemme know.

BTW, Gabe, what wheel are you using? I got the Interact one (courtesy of Dave K!), and it doesn't have 4 mappable buttons on the front-- kind of a bummer for this game. It's otherwise a great feeling wheel.

[gabe]

OK, I changed the first post to be "best times so far". I've been playing in single race mode, but I don't think it'll change the times much aside from two things: Having to avoid the CPU cars (obvious), and in time attack, some people blaze through the pit lane to shorten times (less obvious). I don't use the pit lane, so if someone posts a time with that, lemme know.

Assuming you can avoid the CPU cars, they actually add an advantage as they can be drafted... After I stopped practicing in Time Attack and started practicing in Single Race, my times got much better.

[louisg]

Assuming you can avoid the CPU cars, they actually add an advantage as they can be drafted... After I stopped practicing in Time Attack and started practicing in Single Race, my times got much better.

Whoa, you're right. I just got a 17"468 lap in the Hornet on Three Seven Speedway (wasn't set to 8 laps tho, so I'm not counting it)

[gabe]

In an effort to familiarize myself with the 4 default cars, I decided to take each one to victory in an 8 lap race at Three Seven Speedway. In the process of doing so, I unlocked the Pywackett Barchetta. Of the default cars, I found winning with the Grasshopper the most difficult. Its low top speed and weak acceleration leave little room for error on a high speed track.

Additionally, I discovered that The Lightning shreds this course, and set a new personal best time. There's definitely room for improvement, but I've had enough Three Seven for the moment and am ready for a new track.

Three Seven Speedway (8 Laps) : 02'20"656 - lap 00'17"125 <Lightning>

EDIT: Just saw this:

BTW, Gabe, what wheel are you using? I got the Interact one (courtesy of Dave K!), and it doesn't have 4 mappable buttons on the front-- kind of a bummer for this game. It's otherwise a great feeling wheel.

I'm using the Thrustmaster wheel. I'm quite pleased with it.

[louisg]

Yeah, since Three Seven Speedway is a pedal-to-the-metal course, the Grasshopper will get creamed since it's all grip and low top speed. Lightning is great on it, but it's very hard for me to control.

Oh, so the InterAct wheel. I got it mapped out: A, B, +, - are my 4 gears. I sacrificed the view-change command for it though.

[gabe]

Tonight I hung out at Dinosaur Canyon. This game is the bees knees with a wheel. I hope more shmuppers start playing.

Gabe - Dinosaur Canyon (4 laps) : 3'10"078 - lap 00'44"781 <Lightning>

Also of potential interest, my copy of Daytona 2001 was sealed until this thread gave me the itch to play it. I filmed the unwrapping and sent the vid to Skykid for the Anti Sealed Game Defence Force.

[louisg]

Dinosaur Canyon with Lightning? Jeez That'll be hard to top. OK, updated.

Gabe: Are you using soft tires with the Lightning or..?

[gabe]

Gabe: Are you using soft tires with the Lightning or..?

I tried that, but determined that it made the car too unpredictable. Something about the dynamics of the car just felt off to me. I found the same thing when experimenting with hard tires on the Grasshopper. The Lightning is a handful, but anticipating its wrath feels easier with the default tires.

I've found it helpful to first master a course with the Hornet before attempting with the Lightning. The other tip I have for using the Hornet/Lighting is to start your drifts sooner than you would with the Grasshopper/Falcon.

I will also add that I've only managed one semi-clean run with the Lightning at Dinosaur Canyon, and that is the time you see above. Even on that run, I kissed the wall in the tunnel several times, and also dipped a tire or two into the grass.

[gabe]

I spent a lot of time making this happen:

• Gabe - Sea Side Street Galaxy (2 Laps) : 3'29"156 - lap 1'41"920 <Falcon>

I discovered that crossing over the median to the left of the straight leading up to the sharp turns under the overpass gives you a much better line for entering said turns.

I'd be very interested in seeing times from folks who have been able to master this track with the Hornet or Lightning.

[louisg]

I spent a lot of time making this happen:

Gabe - Sea Side Street Galaxy (2 Laps) : 3'29"156 - lap 1'41"920 <Falcon>

I discovered that crossing over the median to the left of the straight leading up to the sharp turns under the overpass gives you a much better line for entering said turns.

I'd be very interested in seeing times from folks who have been able to master this track with the Hornet or Lightning.

That's a seriously impressive time. I played it a ton and you still beat my time by over 10 seconds! Maybe I'll start working on it with the Hornet when I finally have time/energy to play again. Is that time a flawless run? It's too bad we can't trade ghosts. I think the game lets you upload or e-mail them, but those DC broadband adaptors are rare as hell.

Yeah, you really have to cross over lanes in the beginning.

[gabe]

That's a seriously impressive time.

Thanks!

Maybe I'll start working on it with the Hornet when I finally have time/energy to play again. Is that time a flawless run? It's too bad we can't trade ghosts. I think the game lets you upload or e-mail them, but those DC broadband adaptors are rare as hell.

Please do give it a shot with the Hornet... I tried, but grew impatient after spending so much time there with the Falcon/Grasshopper. It was a nearly flawless run, in that I only hit the grass once. Outside of that, I don't believe my strategy for every turn is perfect. I'm sure there's someone out there with a Sea Side/Falcon time that crushes mine.

As for sharing ghosts, I've been looking for an excuse to get one of these SD adapters for a long time. Perhaps now is the time?

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Is that DC adapter a memory card formatted to use the MicroSD cards? If so, color me impressed. And what is the highest capacity MicroSD card you can use with it? Not to mention that you gotta use a boot disc, Dreamshell CD, to gain access to it anyways. Only if current technology with huge capacity MicroSD cards were available back in 1999-2000 during the DC's console reign, that would've been a great medium to store DC game saves for posterity.

Those Official Sega DC 4X VMU cards work just fine without proper LCD VMU screen support + four seperate dedicated save slots.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[gabe]

You can't save directly to the SD card, but you can boot the DreamShell CD and use it to transfer your VMU data to the SD card. Once it's on the SD card, you can of course put it on your computer and do as you please (e-mail, upload, backup, etc).

Additionally, home brew software can be booted from the SD card... But that feature doesn't excite me as much, though it would certainly be useful to a DC developer. I'm not sure what (if any) size limitations exist for the MicroSD card.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Fascinating stuff there, gabe. Thanks for 411 on them DC MicroSD adapters...I'll have to pick up a couple for both my DC consoles then.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[louisg]

Sorry, I haven't been able to beat your times yet I'm still playing though! I think I might detour and try to unlock some of the extra cars.

[GaijinPunch]

I have a sex to the original Daytona USA theme. On special occasions the Sonic Adventure 2 soundtrack.

[gabe]

Sorry, I haven't been able to beat your times yet I'm still playing though! I think I might detour and try to unlock some of the extra cars.

Just to clarify, all of my times are from Single Race, Fixation Laps, 20 cars on normal difficulty... Not Time Attack. On that topic, I have times for the rest of the tracks in the game if anyone is interested in seeing them.

A few notes on my time with the game thus far:

• I've unlocked all cars, except the Red Cat and Javelin. The Red Cat can only be unlocked by winning a net battle in the JP version... And the Javelin gets unlocked after 100 hours. It seems unlikely that I will obtain either.
  
  I found what I believe to be the Japanese leader boards (Google Translation). Not surprisingly, they are dominated by the unlockable cars.
  
  I'm disappointed with the quality of the Dreamcast exclusive tracks. They are utterly boring and lacking polish when compared to Sea Side Street Galaxy or Desert City.

[louisg]

A few notes on my time with the game thus far:

I've unlocked all cars, except the Red Cat and Javelin. The Red Cat can only be unlocked by winning a net battle in the JP version... And the Javelin gets unlocked after 100 hours. It seems unlikely that I will obtain either.

I found what I believe to be the Japanese leader boards (Google Translation). Not surprisingly, they are dominated by the unlockable cars.

I'm disappointed with the quality of the Dreamcast exclusive tracks. They are utterly boring and lacking polish when compared to Sea Side Street Galaxy or Desert City.

Yeah I remember people online used to always use Rule of the 5th, which I thought was kinda cheesy.

The DC-exclusive tracks do suck. In the original tracks, every turn oozed personality and seemed to have a purpose. It's IMO a high water mark for arcade racer track design. The Saturn ones are pretty good too: they have multiple tricky turns. It's a lot to master. I like the 90-degree chicane in National Park Speedway and the deceptive turns in Desert City. But the DC ones? They all only have one turn each that you have to worry about, if that. In a game that's all about handling banked turns and figuring out how to exploit wheel slippage in each very specific case, the DC-exclusive tracks are about as bland as you can be. It seems like they could've shoehorned in the Daytona 2 tracks instead and it would've been a lot better (and still consistent with the art style!).

Rin Rin Rink isn't *too* bad at least.

I have a sex to the original Daytona USA theme. On special occasions the Sonic Adventure 2 soundtrack.

LIKE A LASER I GOT MUH EYE ON YOOOOOOOOU

[louisg]

Hey, let's move the discussion to ghegs' all new arcade racing forum!
http://www.rolling-start.com/forum/view ... p?f=6&t=11

(lock the thread I guess..?)