Chronoblast - Skyravens (XBLIG 360) - by n0rty games

[emphatic]

I'd love the secret mode to be hidden but become unlocked "forever" once you enter the code. Just like the unlock codes CAVE has used for extra stuff in DeathSmiles (PCB). Also have it unlock after 2 1CC's of normal mode with an increased score on the second. Meaning if you play this for score even after clearing it, you'll get a nice surprise.

[n0rtygames]

Would you have to enter it every single time? I imagine that'd be a tad annoying since it's not like a cheat code for extra lives or something.

At the moment - yes. The codes are actually just directional inputs on the stick which pretty much anyone who has ever touched an arcade stick should be able to pull off.

QCB,HCF,A
FDF,FDF,A
QCF,QCF,A

Also, it might be wise to also make this mode unlockable via normal play (like 1ccing the 1st loop or something) just so that people who stumble upon the game without knowing about this forum still might have a chance at discovering it (or display the code in the game's credits when you 1cc, etc).

I've considered it and part of me thinks you're entirely right - an in game list of achievements was something I wanted to implement anyway, so I'm open to making one of these "Clear the first loop on Hard" which then informs the user that they can now press the start button when hovering over a character to select Expert mode - if you think that's a good idea. You're the players after all

Secrets and stuff are cool, but I think there ought to be a way to reasonably discover them in-game without having to resort to visiting a specific website or buying a game guide, especially when they're fundamentally different game modes.

Well, if I meet you in the middle and make it an unlockable extra game mode on top of being able to access it directly with the correct know how - it's still a cool little secret/easter egg.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

That sounds like it'd work for both people who want to jump into the expert mode right away as well as people who like to play games for the sake of unlocking stuff. Even if it's just unlocking silly stuff like the medals=penguins/piggies/etc, disabling the hitbox or making only the hitbox appear, stuff like that'd give more casual players replayability even if they're not up for the higher difficulty modes. Worse comes to worse, tie some of the neater ones into tricker stuff like 1ccing Expert or something; bragging rights if you unlock the bonuses normally, but there's still the secret codes for those in the know.

[n0rtygames]

rights if you unlock the bonuses normally, but there's still the secret codes for those in the know.

Yeah, that's a perfect way of looking at it - very reminiscent of the way the original Mortal Kombat kept its Reptile fight hidden but at some point through sheer chance alone you'd end up fighting him because of the conditions. Also great to have rumours and secrets amongst little niches - takes me back a looong way.

Glad I made that post now.

btw - Mice - test build coming your way hopefully by the end of the weekend. Bens a 1/3rd of the way through the demo level redraw.

[guigui]

Any news of the game ?

[n0rtygames]

Any news of the game ?

Hello!

I apologise for the complete lack of updates on this - especially after the enthusiastic response to Sined pimping me out everywhere!

I'll put it out there straight, my mother passed away not so long ago and this put a halt on a lot of development work across multiple projects and with me just being indie, this sadly means if I stop working - the games stop progressing.

Things are picking up speed again now, so I don't think it will be too much longer. Thanks for staying interested and sorry I've been slacking! I shall deliver fluorescant bullets as soon as possible

I'm probably going to stop fussing over the difficulty levels in the initial release, scaling back on some of the game modes I've added recently, then do an equivilent "black label" release based on community feedback - I don't want the extra game modes or difficulties to feel rushed or broken. That will at least get the game out quicker and I can start getting responses from people who are better at the genre than me to make sure that the additional modes and difficulties are not sub standard

Cheers,
- Steve

[guigui]

Hello Steve,

I'm so sorry I made that post at the worst moment for you. We've all been through this more than expected in our life, get support wherever you can, this message tries to provide some.

As for the game goes, I think it is a good idea to present a standard game, completed by a BL later ; this certainly gets you that CAVish style !
However, please dont Sine Mora us and make sure you'll actually be able to provide that BL, Oh and also, dont take the complaints too seriously, shmuppers are moaning people.

[n0rtygames]

Hello Steve,

I'm so sorry I made that post at the worst moment for you. We've all been through this more than expected in our life, get support wherever you can, this message tries to provide some.

It's all good! No harm done. The personal life stuff was a while back now, so it's really nothing to worry about. I just thought I'd explain my absence.

As for the game goes, I think it is a good idea to present a standard game, completed by a BL later ; this certainly gets you that CAVish style !
However, please dont Sine Mora us and make sure you'll actually be able to provide that BL, Oh and also, dont take the complaints too seriously, shmuppers are moaning people.

Moaning people they may be, but they're the core audience after all. The tough part is getting a game that can be played by casuals, challenges me and then hopefully offers a challenge to players far better than me!

I'll be able to provide a BL for sure, the main reason for a BL release is not only to get the game out there soon - but to avoid the issue of constantly patching the main game. It's my honest opinion that even the moaniest shmupper of all would be perfectly justified if they spent 3 days straight trying to get the #1 score on the peer to peer scoreboards, only to have me release a patch which adds a multiple of 5 to a certain score, bumping them down to 60th position by a less than optimal performance.

I could code defensively against this and tag each score with a version number, but then we'd end up with potentially fifty or more scoreboards to sift through - which is not so great!

[denpanosekai]

Take all of my points! Looking forward to this.

[n0rtygames]

Hello Steve,
Oh and also, dont take the complaints too seriously, shmuppers are moaning people.

Had to share this.. Some bugs or accidents in code make me, to put it politely.. shit myself.

http://www.n0rty.com/erm.png

I think pretty much any shmupper would complain about that....

[guigui]

Hello Steve,
Oh and also, dont take the complaints too seriously, shmuppers are moaning people.

Had to share this.. Some bugs or accidents in code make me, to put it politely.. shit myself.

http://www.n0rty.com/erm.png

I think pretty much any shmupper would complain about that....

Well, that depends on the hitboxes size.
Please make a very visible one for the ship and let us guess that of the bullets, we'll make it through...

[noiseredux]

hadn't seen this thread until today, but I'm excited about these games!

[n0rtygames]

hadn't seen this thread until today, but I'm excited about these games!

Thank you!

Well, that depends on the hitboxes size.
Please make a very visible one for the ship and let us guess that of the bullets, we'll make it through...

Oh how I wish you were joking!

That's something that terrifies me, if the game is hard for 60% of people, there will be 30% of people who 1CC it on their third go and 10% who complete it with their arms tied behind their back using their teeth to dodge bullets.

As I've tried to avoid the game being at all random or unpredictable in any way (this is really important to me) - the entire game is running on (with the exception of backgrounded high score stuff) a single thread. So the more projectiles I throw at the player in the name of difficulty - the more we border on "performance issues"... Yes I've used the old frame delay trick to cater for dense patterns ahead of time much like Mushi.. but sadly filling the screen like that is out of the question... for now

[NeoStrayCat]

These 2 indie games seem awesome, but to the point of...How long is it gonna take for either of them to be released, it has been a very long while, and I haven't heard any mentions/news of a release (or more info of how much % either of those games are completed), the more I hear of them, chances I probably wont remember until then. But anyways, it still looks good from vids from a pre-build of 1 of those games.

[n0rtygames]

These 2 indie games seem awesome, but to the point of...How long is it gonna take for either of them to be released, it has been a very long while, and I haven't heard any mentions/news of a release (or more info of how much % either of those games are completed), the more I hear of them, chances I probably wont remember until then. But anyways, it still looks good from vids from a pre-build of 1 of those games.

4 months since that video was posted is not a long time! Compare the size of the credits roster on "the big shmups" to us... we're 2 dudes with some occasional help!

But to answer your question:
* Final two levels require finishing
* Optional replay (2nd loop) system needs implementing
* Boss patterns need to be tuned for different difficulty levels and all verified completable without breaking chains (Do you realise how hard this is to do without it completely sucking?)
* Waiting on (I think) 2 boss graphics

So there's not much left - it's just the hardest part actually getting the thing wrapped up and finished... getting there though! It doesn't matter how much time I pour in to it though, there will be a handful of people hellbent on telling me it sucks bigtime, so I'm just doing what I can to make sure there's not *too* much to flame me for

[guigui]

Glad to hear news. Take the time you need to complete the games... But hurry up please, we want you to take our money !

[BareKnuckleRoo]

so I'm just doing what I can to make sure there's not *too* much to flame me for

As long as the hitbox isn't gigantic and isn't too hard to figure out where it is, the controls don't suck (slowdown button/when using laser, etc), and it has auto-rapid (button mashing the whole game ain't fun) it can't be that bad for an indie release. it'll at least be better than sine mora was, lol

[NeoStrayCat]

Glad to hear news. Take the time you need to complete the games... But hurry up please, we want you to take our money !

Yeah, same here, took long to reply though, also, I hope they'll both cost 80MSP each (unless its higher MSP due to MB count).

[n0rtygames]

Yeah, same here, took long to reply though, also, I hope they'll both cost 80MSP each (unless its higher MSP due to MB count).

Yeah sorry about the long reply. I kinda took the "It's taking so long!" comment to heart, so wanted to make a bit of progress before replying to it.. Good thing I suppose

They should both cost 80MSP and I have no plans to charge more at this time (for any title in fact). What I am likely to do though, is follow up games or 'black label' versions for a seperate 80MSP instead of just patching the original version - if only for the reason that if people want more, they'd spend more than that if it were on an arcade machine - so I feel entitled to ask a whole dollar for additional work ^^

Skyravens wont take too long, but it's got a lot more of a casual console feel at this point in time - I really want to put some more work in to find scoring systems that work with 4 players and making the scoring challenging but not too obscure.

Some dev shots:


- Steve

[n0rtygames]

Hello!

Just popping my head up for the people following this.. Game is now inching its way towards completion. Some updated laser graphics should appear in my mailbox tonight.

At the moment I'm testing to make sure that levels are completable without being too obnoxious. Still got a couple of bosses to finish up. These firing patterns are absolutely maddenning.

Just a quick shoutout - is there anyone out there other than those I've already spoken to who would be willing to test an early build of this in the coming weeks and give it a harsh criitique? You'll need XNA membership of course, so I imagine there's only a few people around here who would be willing

BareknuckleRoo:
It does all the things you'd expect. Keep in mind that I'm usually flipping between Muchi Muchi Pork Arrange mode, Futari BL and DFK... these are all fairly standard to me. There's even hard coded slowdown during sections with lots of gold coins flying towards your ship for people who are a fan of this - which is active when you're holding laser...

Re your earlier feedback: The codes for the easter egg mode have been dropped - it's accessible and I've simply scaled up the difficulty of Hard Mode now. Though I will point out in advance that the easter egg mode is... absurd and silly.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

You'll need XNA membership of course, so I imagine there's only a few people around here who would be willing

It depends on how annoying it is to get XNA membership I guess.

[NeoStrayCat]

You'll need XNA membership of course, so I imagine there's only a few people around here who would be willing

It depends on how annoying it is to get XNA membership I guess.

And we know they're not cheap, so can't really test them much, but we can wait and look forward to your releases though...

[n0rtygames]

And we know they're not cheap, so can't really test them much, but we can wait and look forward to your releases though...

Yeah, I had a chat with Roo about this in private. I hope this didn't come across as "Please buy XNA memberships!" - Really just wanted to give a shout to see if there were any others reading this thread who also had memberships already.

You're right that they're not cheap.. About £65 per year with a gold membership on top!

I actually don't have too much left to finish on this release now (I think!), beyond just playtesting and ironing out anything annoying.

[NeoStrayCat]

Don't worry, take your time...

[n0rtygames]

Don't worry, take your time...

Grr! Not sure if serious!

My big headache at the moment is that I'm loading *all* of the games assets in to memory when the game starts. Reason being some of the feedback regarding loading times both at the start and between levels on an old Saidaioujou port. I'd rather have a slightly longer load at the start and then no delay during the game at all so the experience is more Arcade like.. i.e once the machine is on, it's left on and the game just works.

So painstakingly going through and removing fluff to free up memory... Condensing character selection graphics down to a single graphic instead of 4 for multiple difficulties.... reworking the background art so there's no need for seperate horzitonal/vertical stuff.. xbox memory limitations are..... shite

Speaking of which, anyone reading this - currently there's no option to credit feed, nor is there a practise mode. A practise mode will be quite easy to implement as it's just a case of adding a menu that lets a player pick a stage.

Am I likely to get told off if I don't include a continue option? (I don't want to.. I tend to be a score attack player who resets on a miss during 1cc runs)

[emphatic]

Speaking of which, anyone reading this - currently there's no option to credit feed, nor is there a practise mode. A practise mode will be quite easy to implement as it's just a case of adding a menu that lets a player pick a stage.

Am I likely to get told off if I don't include a continue option? (I don't want to.. I tend to be a score attack player who resets on a miss during 1cc runs)

You should have a continue option, but don't put it on FREE PLAY and set the game to unlock more credits after a couple of hours play time.

[n0rtygames]

Speaking of which, anyone reading this - currently there's no option to credit feed, nor is there a practise mode. A practise mode will be quite easy to implement as it's just a case of adding a menu that lets a player pick a stage.

Am I likely to get told off if I don't include a continue option? (I don't want to.. I tend to be a score attack player who resets on a miss during 1cc runs)

You should have a continue option, but don't put it on FREE PLAY and set the game to unlock more credits after a couple of hours play time.

Hmm, good shout - I'd had this suggested to me ages ago when I started but wasn't entirely convinced on the idea. Didn't Gradius do this amongst other shmups? I'll see about implementing that later tonight then.

There's a couple of ways I thought about implementing this system before. One was just to increase the maximum credits you start with the longer you play. The other was to accumulate credits that go in to a reserve, that are saved to your profile - so you still have to 'save up'

One of the advantages of the other option, is due to the fact the ONLY way we can do networked high scores in XBLIG titles is to do it peer to peer - is I can also offer people an incentive to leave the game running on the main menu so they're seeding high scores to other players.

[emphatic]

Or, award credits based on how well the player's scoring? If someone is playing for score, they aren't interested in using continues, so survivor players will see this as a more fun way making it further in the game.

[DJ Incompetent]

Change continue screen to "Resume in practice mode?"

[n0rtygames]

Change continue screen to "Resume in practice mode?"

You know I like both of these ideas... this one especially. I have been toying with the idea of flashing up an obvious message explaining that if you continue, the remainder of your score will be locked and you won't be able to post anything greater to the scoreboards on this run.

Emphatics ideas are decent too - though honestly I've never understood playing a shmup for survival unless its in preparation for a score run. I've seen a lot of people go very bomb heavy in shmups just because they find it fun - but its just hard to design for that mindset when I personally suffer from major restart syndrome

Under no circumstances will I allow a credit feed to carry score over though!

Perhaps I might see more point in a continue system for survival play if it didn't throw a max power pickup at you as Cave games do - I really feel like a massive cheat when I pick one of those up!