getting started with an Atari VCS - Basics ?

[Fudoh]

Well, I guess I'm entering my videogame-midlife-crisis. Next year, I'll have enjoyed this hobby for 30 years, all starting with a ZX Spectrum which I got in 1983 when I started school.

So, before I'll return to my roots next year and relive my ZX childhood memories, I would like to spend a little time with the Atari 2600 (which I never had). Could anyone run me through the basics to get me started ? I don't want to start an Atari collection, but I don't want to play using a RF connection either, so....

- Atari Wood vs. Atari Jr vs. 7800 ? Does it matter ?
- S-Video Mod is the best, right ?
- Harmony Flash cart ?
- PAL vs. NTSC is determined by the games, not the system ?
- Will NTSC games/roms output on a PAL machine (except for the wrong colors) ?
- other mods to play PAL and NTSC with RIGHT colors on the same machine ?
- which controllers do I need ? digital versus analogue ?

Anything I missed ? I hope for some help by the Atari veterans

Thanks!

[antron]

S-Video Mod is the best, right ?

I think the best is a kit that sits between the VCS video chip and its socket, generating its own video. There were a few makers at one time (8bitdomain, cybertech) but they seem to be all gone . I use an 8bitdomain. I played with some direct mods but didn't like them.

- Harmony Flash cart ?

yes

- PAL vs. NTSC is determined by the games, not the system ?

both I think

- Will NTSC games/roms output on a PAL machine (except for the wrong colors) ?

I think this is correct, but the screen might roll.

- which controllers do I need ? digital versus analogue ?

depends on the game. The breakouts are analog, Thrust+ DC is digital, etc..

[Fudoh]

thanks ! I'll look into the different s-video mods...

depends on the game. The breakouts are analog, Thrust+ DC is digital, etc..

do the digital controllers register at all with the analogue games (and the other way around) ?

[antron]

thanks ! I'll look into the different s-video mods...

depends on the game. The breakouts are analog, Thrust+ DC is digital, etc..

do the digital controllers register at all with the analogue games (and the other way around) ?

no, the analog uses a pot in a RC circuit that has its timing read by the VCS.

the digital uses all the digital inputs and outputs to multiplex a matrix of 16 inputs, and uses them in a dial wheel with 16 positions.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I use an NTSC based Atari 7800 ProSystem myself. I do have a S-Video mod kit for it but haven't got around to modding it yet.

From what I recall, only a couple of 2600 carts won't run on a 7800 properly, mainly David Crane's Pitfall 2 (but if you have an original VCS, the all black colored variant '83 2600, or the '86 2600 Jr., then it'll be no problem running it).

It's possible to play PAL based 2600 carts on a NTSC based 2600/7800 setup provided that you use an old-school CRT monitor with sole input of RF (means having to use an RF TV switchbox setup though). Otherwise, you'd get a bit of scrolling issues like Antron mentioned in his post.

The 7800 port of Desert Falcon is ace as an isometric shump title with a possible 512 combinations of heiroglyphs to mix & match for all sorts of power-ups, warps, power-downs, etc.

The NTSC 7800 version of Atari's Planet Smashers is a verizontal based shmup title & is quite rare. A PAL version of the same name does exist.

A few 2600 games took advantage of using an digital joystick + video touch pad controller scheme (like with the classic 2600 port of Star Raiders). The 2600 cart of Basic Programming utilizes two video touch pad controllers for keyboard inputs & excuting simple programs.

The Imagic 2600 port of Moonsweeper (circa 1983) features some very impressive variable scrolling speeds for portraying different moons - it's kinda like "Buck Rogers in the Planet Zoom" but with a better overall visual presentation. It even has some cool scaling sprite effects as well.

Imagic's 2600 port of Demon Attack (circa 1982) is a stellar shmup title in it's own right with some flashy graphics.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Zapf]

The Longhorn Engineer av mods are supposed to be very good. He no longer sells kits, but he does have pcb design / schematics / parts lists / install guide on his website http://longhornengineer.com/DIY/Atarivideomods/


edit: is there a reason to bother with PAL? It looks like there is 6 games total that are pal exclusive, and all have had ntsc ports made (playable with the aforementioned harmony cart)

[Fudoh]

is there a reason to bother with PAL?

only reason would be that I'm in Germany. I could get a genuine PAL machine much easier than a NTSC one. For the games I don't care about PAL.

[BuckoA51]

You should play the 2600 with an RF connection on a CRT. Before you spit out your coffee let me explain. The 2600 ONLY ever supported RF, and the games are designed around the crappiness of RF connections. Consider the image here:-



A fiery sunset on RF becomes just a weird row of pixels on a higher quality connection.

For my Atari fix I prefer to use an emulator which can gently simulate the RF noise since I don't have a CRT around any more. 2600 is before my time (only just mind) so I don't have fond memories of it, but it does have one or two interesting games even at its age.

[Fudoh]

I actually plan on playing on a CRT - just got a Sony BVM, but not RF

[BuckoA51]

Well up to you of course there's no right or wrong. Thinking about it, I wonder if an s-video mod + mini with some of the more extreme scaling settings could simulate the blurriness of RF without the picture noise.

[Fudoh]

composite and RF actually weren't this blurry. If you move up the H Scaling on the mini to 12 it's way blurier than composite ever was. Was made composite composite was the dot crawl and the color bleed due to poor comb filters.

[BuckoA51]

The image I posted is simulated, but that's definitely how I remember the 2600 whenever I've used one on a CRT.

Edit, oh you mean the Mini goes even blurrier than composite / RF ever did, right I see

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Here's another 2600 shmup title from the likes of Spectravision back in 1982, was none other than "Planet Patrol." Has that classic horizontal side-scrolling smoothness, albeit scrolls from left to right (opposite of the Gradius/R-Type games in terms of their stages scrolling from right to left). Has some impressive heat distortion effects to simulate the effects of being out in the desert type of enviroment.

The 2600 port of Vanguard ain't too shabby either as it was done in-house by Atari Corp. themselves and licensed from Konami to Atari for both the 2600 & 5200 Super System console as well. Features four-way directional firing (up, down, left & right). Even features a 2nd loop with faster moving stages & enemies if you manage to destroy the evil Gond end-stage boss the first time around.

Atari Corp. did release it's 7800 ProSystem console back in 1984 but it was rather too late (given the horrific "Great Video Game Crash of '83-'84 incident). Atari even licensed it's 7800 console to Sears Roebuck in 1984 under the re-branded Sears "Telegames III" console with a pair of joystick/paddle-in-1 combo deal with two fire buttons (one on the left side and vice versa for the right side). Slide a switch upwards, the joystick moves in 8 different directions and the paddle portion locks up, slide the switch downwards, and the joystick centers itself, locks up the 8-way directional movement and allows the joystick base to rotate on a single axis to become the paddle controller itself. It was quite an elaborate 7800 controller that I've never seen made since then. Honestly, the slick Telegames III joystick/paddle-all-in-1 controller was better made than Atari's own 1st-party 7800 Proline joystick based controllers indeed (given that it was Atari designed/manufactured from it's initial inception).

Of course, Atari Corp. re-released it's 7800 console again to the U.S. gaming market to compete head-to-head against the NES and the Sega Master System in 1987 with an MSRP of $89.99 USD. Official support for the 7800 (in terms of new software being produced for it) ended in 1990. Atari was gearing up to produce the upcoming 16-bit Panther gaming console (with the highly touted built-in Lynx cart support from the get go so one could play Lynx games on the big-screen TV setup) but it was cancelled at the last minute in 1992 to concentrate on making the 64-bit Jaguar a reality instead in late 1993. I personally didn't get to try out the Jag until January of 1994 when it, finally, had a larger retailer distribution route in place.

There was even a limited production run of the DeLorean (U.S. automobile manufacturer) branded 7800 consoles...isn't your average 7800 gaming console either.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[antron]

There was even a limited production run of the DeLorean (U.S. automobile manufacturer) branded 7800 consoles...isn't your average 7800 gaming console either.

yeah, limited prodution in someone's garage:
http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/36 ... ntry433060

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I recall seeing the cobbled-up DeLorean 7800 console put up for sale on eBay once but no one bid on it. Sure caught my attention seeing that auction though. Interesting to learn the "real" story behind it.

So did Sears really sell the Telegames II (aka 2800) console? The Sears Telegames II console demo kiosk that I saw back in 1984 at my local Sears store was not powered up but I still could fiddle around with the cool Telegames II controllers. Quite impressive for their time.

After a bit of searching, it's known as the Sears Telegames II console with the innovative joystick/paddle controller pair:
http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/c ... A2800.html The internal guts was essentially a 2600 inside a 7800 stylized console body.

The UK 7800 systems came with a pair of these controllers: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-RARE-ATAR ... 3f192b56f9

whereas the U.S. 7800 console came with a pair of these instead: http://www.ebay.com/itm/OFFICIAL-ORIGIN ... 3376a7d725

Here's a Longhorn Engineering S-Video mod PCB for 2600/5200/7800 consoles: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-7800-DIY- ... 4604ebad66 These are no longer produced nowdays.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Zapf]

I think my favorite part about Atari stuff is this website for the company that bought out all their warehouses and sells nos atari parts: http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/

It looks like it was designed by a madman in the early 90s

[Sinneslöschen]

As far as my childhhod memories go, in Germany the "gamepad-style" controllers came bundled with the 7800 and the proline ones came with the 2600jr. (if "jr." was the last version of the 2600).
However, I was mostly using Commodore joysticks with my Atari

The UK 7800 systems came with a pair of these controllers: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-RARE-ATAR ... 3f192b56f9

whereas the U.S. 7800 console came with a pair of these instead: http://www.ebay.com/itm/OFFICIAL-ORIGIN ... 3376a7d725

[Fudoh]

How does that work out with the controllers ? I'm refering to antron's answer above to my question wether digital controllers do at all registered with games that have analogue input control.

[antron]

I was only referring to the paddles/driving controllers. (as the paddles are the only analog atari controllers I know of)

[Fudoh]

so, this means I can control a game like Breakout with the standard digital controllers, but I can not play a game like pitfall with the paddle controller (not that I wanted to anyway) ??

[antron]

The Paddles are analog (just a POT). Games like Breakout and Kaboom! use them. So no, these games will not work without one.

The Driving Controller looks just like a Paddle, but is like an encoder, it can be turned infinitely. Typically driving game use them (and Thrust)

As far as I know all joysticks are digital. But a controller port does have two analog inputs (paddles come in pairs) so it is possible to have an analog joystick if a game expected it.

[Fudoh]

This I understand, but - sorry to sound like broken record - if I try to play breakout with a standard digital joystick. Does it work at all. like full speed left/right, but no slow movement, or does the game ask me to connect another controller ?

[antron]

It won't do anything (except maybe start the game). The "paddle" at the bottom of the screen would move all the way to one side, because the analog input would see zero conductance.

[Fudoh]

got it now! thanks!

and one more: are the driving and the paddle controllers compatible or are they exclusive as well ?

[Sinneslöschen]

::: if I try to play breakout with a standard digital joystick. Does it work at all. like full speed left/right, but no slow movement, or does the game ask me to connect another controller ?

All games work with the standard digital joystick - I only had those.

[antron]

got it now! thanks!

and one more: are the driving and the paddle controllers compatible or are they exclusive as well ?

exclusive as far as I know.

[Sinneslöschen]

Try to get the Track & Field controller! Will save you several (normal) controllers

[Endymion]

Longhorn Engineer was one of the more recent ones to be selling the video boards, looks like he has discontinued as well but his schematics are still up to consult. I know there's not a lot of 7800 games, but personally that is the one that I would go for just to have more to play from.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

The 2600 Track & Field controller will work just fine on the Player 2 controller port if using it + a digital Atari joystick on the Player 1 controller port when playihg a session of William's Stargate (aka Defender 2) on the 2600 console. It's much easier to activate the seperate functions via the push buttons on the Track & Field controller rather than having to use a joystick controller mapped to port 2.

On the Atari 5200, the pair of non-centering 5200 joysticks included with a new console boxed set did have both analog and digital support if playing the 5200 version of Super Breakout.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~