Why the Change For CAVE After DonPachi?

[lettuce]

Have only gotten into the cave shooters over the last 6 months and something i have been wondered is what made CAVE change the style of their presentation and game design after DonPachi?

DonPachi presentation and game design is very westernised, there is none of this tongue in cheek Japanese anime that you find in later CAVE games after DonPachi. DonPachi seems to take itself more seriously than games that came out afterwards, was DonPachi actually produced by a western department of CAVE or something and then all games after were made by an eastern department?

[Bee Cool]

How is it westernized? The game looks very Japanese.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Who knows. Mushihimesama was originally planned to be a new take on the old war timey Toaplan games but they pussied out when word of Raiden III got out. Ketsui also got a last minute change, but I don't think there was any reason for that. I still mad.

[Vamos]

Wasnt it because of battle garegga? I remember ikeda saying something about that was the first time they saw so many bullets on screen and thought about doing it . I would have liked to see cave continue with both styles oh well .

[Op Intensify]

DonPachi was the year before Garegga.

[Vamos]

DonPachi was the year before Garegga.

Yes and the question is why did cave change AFTER donpachi to there current style.

@op im not sure you can say donpachi takes itself seriously i mean just listen to that announcer lol.

[Op Intensify]

Yeah, DonPachi was very tongue in cheek. The plot involves you destroying your own army as part of "training."

DoDonPachi was more serious, but it still had silly stuff like the flowers in Stage 2.

Dai Ou Jou was pretty grimdark because Cave thought it was going to be their final shmup when they made it, hence "peaceful death." It was only after it became a success that they decided to continue on with Ketsui.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

I can't see it no matter how much I watch. Where are people getting grimdark out of DOJ from?

[Op Intensify]

The music, the dystopian/post-apocalyptic scenery, the muted palette, the character artwork.

It's not Resistance or Killzone but it is grim and dark.

[mesh control]

DOJ is the ugliest PGM game.

[AntiFritz]

I don't know how you can call donpachi "serious" with that announcer...

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

The music, the dystopian/post-apocalyptic scenery, the muted palette, the character artwork.

It's not Resistance or Killzone but it is grim and dark.

Funny. I find DOJ's soundtrack to be somewhat relaxing rather than dreary. Artstyle does not come across to me as dark either, since I find a lot of games from the 16-bit era have muted colors.

I don't know how you can call donpachi "serious" with that announcer...

Not at all serious, but it doesn't go out of its way to be eccentric either. I think it's pretty obvious that's what OP was getting at.

[trap15]

DonPachi is Cave's first game, I don't think you can consider anything after to be a change.

DOJ is the ugliest PGM game.

QFT

[Cagar]

I was quickly checking nico for new SDOJ vids before going to sleep, and the exact same (DonPachi is the last westernized) thought hit me.

I kind of like it to be honest, as long as the player controls a ship of some sort.

SDOJ feels more alive than any other CAVE-title for me, it's perfect. You don't have to scream TASTE THIS while activating hyper because the game does it for you.

[CloudyMusic]

Funny. I find DOJ's soundtrack to be somewhat relaxing rather than dreary. Artstyle does not come across to me as dark either, since I find a lot of games from the 16-bit era have muted colors.

Stage 5 has always felt pretty damn bleak to me. The combination of the music and the imagery (i.e. the wreckage of the mothership from DDP in the canyon) is pretty creepy to me.

[Skykid]

DOJ is the ugliest PGM game.

And the best.

[EmperorIng]

DonPachi kind of reminds me of an old war movie from the 50s or early 60s. Even the music has this old-timey sound-quality about it, and the hilarious announcer wing leader really makes the game fun. It's something that should have been in more DDP games!

HOOEE ENEMY AIRCRAFT
KEEP YER FINGER ON THE TRIGGER KID

It's a game that just is a really fun romp through bullet-hell and leaves a big goofy smile on your face when you play it.

DDP is more of like, 90s grunge serious game (edgy?) with its shreddin' guitars. Can't really comment on the other DDP games, though they seemed to have gone full-on loli, judging by some of the box-art!

[Bee Cool]

DOJ is the ugliest PGM game.

You really think DoDonpachi II Bee Storm looks better than DOJ? Same with Puzzle Star and Photo Y2K?

That's really surprising to me.

[Ed Oscuro]

Have only gotten into the cave shooters over the last 6 months and something i have been wondered is what made CAVE change the style of their presentation and game design after DonPachi?

What made Toaplan change with Batsugun?

[Age of Kings]

They went from military-themed or quirky STGs to the current loli fanservice infestation to appeal to otaku fanboys, one of the easier demographics to lure into playing their games in the declining popularity of the genre. (see also: Otomedius series) That happened long after DonPachi though, more like after Ketsui. Some were commercially successful (Mushi, Deathsmiles), others were not (Ibara).

Though there's some old fanservice artwork of the ESPrade characters (or at least supposedly different characters who look exactly like them) on Junya "Joker" Inoue's website, but none of this made it into official CAVE media.

[lrdr]

DonPachi is only 'western' in the sense that the contemporary Japanese aesthetic is basically fetishistic lolis and impractical tits all over the place, and obviously DonPachi isn't like that. It's kind of sad that anything that isn't a bit creepy can be considered westernised though.

I suppose you could make an argument that the Japanese were still heavily influenced by western art and movies at the time, an inspiration that has progressively waned over time, but I think it still has that distinctly Japanese 'wackiness' to it (ie. the announcer).

[Zaarock]

I suppose you could make an argument that the Japanese were still heavily influenced by western art and movies at the time, an inspiration that has progressively waned over time, but I think it still has that distinctly Japanese 'wackiness' to it (ie. the announcer).

I think Donpachi was just intended as a continuation of the toaplan type of game, with similar style.. some of the interviews certainly give that impression (it was advertized as a toaplan-like game, etc)

[BPzeBanshee]

Pedantics, guys. It's not hard to define what OP is talking about. Let's put it into simple honest words:

'Western' = Helicopters, Guns, Missiles, Gunpowder, Giant Mechs, Blowing shit up, manly stuff, male voices

'Asian' = Lolis, dolls that look like they want to get rooted, pussy-looking males whose gender is questionable, flying transvestite fairies, squealing chicks like Justin Bieber fans

Cave has without a doubt gone more 'Asian' in recent years than what they used to be. I thoroughly enjoy ESPRade even though it has flying people because at least they're people going in the name of justice (or revenge) and have psychic powers, which gives me a feeling kinda like what Firestarter (the movie) did. So when they went with ESPGaluda's sexchanging winged goddess/god things it's certainly not the 'Western' look its predecessor had.

Deathsmiles certainly gives a more 'Asian' impression, as does DDP:R's mecha-loli bosses.

Reason? Well that's simple too: sex sells, and 'Asian' sex selling is this loli wimpy stuff that's all too mainstream etc over there. You can define and be specific on as much intricate details as you'd like but this is the bottom line.

[KAI]

Cave changed because they needed to.
Ikeda realized that, and i think he did well. The whole industry took a new direction thanks to that decision.

[Kaiser]

Cave changed because they needed to.
Ikeda realized that, and i think he did well. The whole industry took a new direction thanks to that decision.

And no wonder they suck so much ass and are unappealing now.

[KAI]

[Trevor spencer]

DOJ is not ugly

[Jeneki]

DonPachi is only 'western' in the sense that the contemporary Japanese aesthetic is basically fetishistic lolis and impractical tits all over the place, and obviously DonPachi isn't like that.

DonPachi is from 1995. I wouldn't compare it to modern contemporary Japanese aesthetic, as the big push to lolify everything really didn't come till after that. (See any of the anime threads in the off topic area for comparisons of 90s anime to 2000s anime)

[jepjepjep]

Have only gotten into the cave shooters over the last 6 months and something i have been wondered is what made CAVE change the style of their presentation and game design after DonPachi?

Wasnt it because of battle garegga? I remember ikeda saying something about that was the first time they saw so many bullets on screen and thought about doing it . I would have liked to see cave continue with both styles oh well .

Cave was a brand new company and they were told (presumably by Atlus) to make a Toaplan-style game first so that they would be seen as the successor to Toaplan, hence Donpachi was born. It has noticeably slower pace and longer levels than other Cave games.

After Battle Garegga came out, they were surprised by how many bullets were onscreen at once and the sheer difficulty and manic nature of the game. Since BG was a success, they took inspiration from it and produced Dodonpachi completely in their own style essentially looking to produce twice as many bullets onscreen while emphasizing the joy of dodging bullet patterns. Interesting enough, DOJ was made with the goal of producing twice as many bullets as DDP.

What made Toaplan change with Batsugun?

Batsugun was done by a "new hire" group at Toaplan who worked independent of the old guard at Toaplan.

[Erppo]

Interesting enough, DOJ was made with the goal of producing twice as many bullets as DDP.

And with that in mind they made the game have extremely low bullet cap?