Euro 2012

[CIT]

Just a couple days until Euro 2012. Predictions anyone?

I reckon Spain and Netherlands have the best chance at winning.
The bookmakers favor Germany after Spain, but since half the team is Bayern, and they failed miserably at winning the Bundesliga, national cup and Champions' League I think they're too powered out to go the extra mile now.

Too bad Turkey isn't in the tournament this year, they showed off some mad skillz in 08.

[antron]

I'm about to sign up for an xbox live gold account, just for the ESPN3 app (I canceled cable a while back). Can't wait.

What's the Octopus saying? (oh yeah, he died

[TransatlanticFoe]

Germany for me. Klose is the opposite of Gomez - average league form but shows up when it counts. Gomez looks hapless in international tournaments and was dire in the Champion's League final. Bayern provide a framework but their weaknesses are removed by having Oezil (creativity) and Khedira (strength, reading the game), and Klose for the killer instinct.

Spain are without Villa, so I think they'll lack the killer touch unless Torres remembers how good he used to be.

Of course, Roy Hodgson knows his way around getting the best out of average players, so maybe we'll finally decide to play. Or a group stage exit because there is so much shite in the squad!

[Skykid]

Of course, Roy Hodgson knows his way around getting the best out of average players, so maybe we'll finally decide to play. Or a group stage exit because there is so much shite in the squad!

I think expect the worst hope for the best is probably the way to go regarding England.

I fancy Spain still, even without Villa, but I think the Dutch are in with a chance too.

Looking forward to it, I'll attempt to watch every game!

[Randorama]

I can't see how Spain will miss the second Euro title in a row. The Netherlands look formidable, but let's not forget the Oranje's passion for choking when it matters (ka-zing!).

I'd bet on a re-match of the world cup, unless Bayern/Germany can suddenly convince themselves that they're the Dark Horse of the competition. I don't see where they could find the steam, though.

Closer at home, Italy looks dire so far, and have a lot of baggage to deal with, off-field (yet another match-fixing scandal...). I guess that they will get a shellacking from Spain.

I am hoping for some surprise, anyway, maybe some team will suddenly find a stellar form, out of nowhere.

[Randorama]

First impressions.

Russia should be the dark horse of the competition, they look very well organized and in good shape. They seem to have a killing factor for winning in any football code: pressure. If they have the ball, they attack like madmen. If they don't, they apply a huge pressure on the adversary.

The Netherlands could win it IF by losing their first match, the dispel the pressure of being favourites, avoid to choke (as always) because of this, and *turn up* on the pitch. Who were those guys in Orange playing against Denmark?

...and Denmark: dunno, if they get the giant killing against Germany, they could be the other dark horse. I entirely hope so, because Euro titles tend to be dull as fuck otherwise.

Germany: went on the pitch, played a very german match (solid, well-organized, bit boring), won the match. With more sparkle in the attack, they would look like contenders. Right now, they look good, but that could not suffice.

[Bee Cool]

Germany, I really want them to finally win something and I think they may be able to pull out of their mental funk from losing to Chelsea.

[Randorama]

Europeans (that includes the chaps from across the pond):

come and post to this thread, dammit.

Anyway:

Second impressions: Italy-Spain was an interesting match.

Spain has a well known gaming style revolving around the "piti pati": mid-fielders move the ball until the adversaries are bored to death and concede an opening. Villa's missing so they're lacking the ruthless, killing edge, although Fabregas was quite good.

Italy, on paper, is still a very green team, with still a weak organization. Today, they looked like they suddenly were gelling and playing together. The problem is that the forwards/strikers, Balotelli and Cassano, are missing their killing edge too, and they don't gel much, since they are one the carbon copy of the other. De Rossi looks like he is going to be the next main pillar of the team, at least.

Ireland-Croatia: skipped, I didn't have enough time.

[burgerkingdiamond]

haha don't take this the wrong way. I'm not trying to be a dick.

I'm just slightly amused to see all the Europeans so excited about SOCCER

I guess not understanding it just an American thing. However I do have several friends who for some inexplicable reason are really into it.

[Randorama]

haha don't take this the wrong way. I'm not trying to be a dick.

I'm just slightly amused to see all the Europeans so excited about SOCCER

...Half of the posts in this thread are from me, who I am really into Rugb. Enthusiasm seems low, so far, on this forum. Given the quality of the matches, that's not surprising.

But if you want to discuss soccer rather than de-railing the thread, please feel free to do so. It's usually quite more interesting than watching the real thing.

[burgerkingdiamond]

A large portion of the members seem to be European so I expect this thread to probably take off once people are at work with nothing better to do than bullshit online.

[Skykid]

I guess not understanding it just an American thing. However I do have several friends who for some inexplicable reason are really into it.

Americans are only allowed to understand really crap sports filled with adverts.

Enjoying the Euro so far, watched every game. I feel like it's just starting to heat up now. Spain weren't looking at full burn today, but I did think Italy played excellently to their credit. I thought Germany were looking sharp, but not quite with the killer instinct I know they have. Comparatively Portugal really didn't bring much to the table.

And Ireland got spanked. They have a lot of spirit, but so weak in defence.

Anglais versus Francais next, gawd help us.

[O. Van Bruce]

Italy? Playing well? they never play well... allways with their "counter" bullshit... even so, they did even worse on that match against Spain, because they barely had the chance to play the shitty gamestyle they use.

I'm looking forward to what Spain can offer now that they are starting to get heated.

[Skykid]

So England cheesed a draw with France. A good result for us considering the lack of killer apps in the team. I actually thought the defence did quite well, but some of the possession play was just awful - non-existent. Passes into empty space, scrappy frantic actions and constantly giving the ball away. We were lucky it wasn't 2 - 1.

However I think we should beat Ukraine and Sweden if their performances last night are an indicator of quality.

[Randorama]

Italy? Playing well? they never play well... allways with their "counter" bullshit... even so, they did even worse on that match against Spain, because they barely had the chance to play the shitty gamestyle they use.

I'm looking forward to what Spain can offer now that they are starting to get heated.

Piti pati, which is Italy's catenaccio played in the mid-field. Pass the ball amongst yourselves until the adversary makes a mistake. It usually results into 1-0 results.

But more seriously: can you please take this hooligan tone to another forum? Nobody's dissing other teams and the way they play, so if you can't stick to this bare minimum of politeness, you're really invited not to post in this thread. We don't need your shit here, thank you.

Skykid: I think that England looked sharper than France, although defense looked a serious concern. They are clearly missing some important player, but I can't recall who

Both teams look like they will need this competition to build up for the World Cup, but England looks more ahead in this process. Ukraine, more than Sweden, may be a threat: Shevcenko played very well, while Ibrahimovic is extending his mixed form to the Euro. This group looks interesting.

[O. Van Bruce]

It's noy about being a Hooligan. Of all the game styles there are in football, the only one I genuinely hate is the Italian. They do nothing but wait for an error of the other team, make a goal and then retreat to their side of the field for the rest of the match: no tecnique, no deep strategy, no spectacle, no real football: Only a bunch of guys waiting to make a goal and simply win the game. I simply can't stand that. Of every match on a worlwide cup or an Eurocup, Italy's are allways the more boring and dull to watch.

That's why I hate the Italian team...

PD: There is something very wrong on a team when the "star" is a defence...

PPD: If I can make a comparison, they've become Pro Campers...

[Skykid]

Skykid: I think that England looked sharper than France, although defense looked a serious concern.

Ha ha, it's always so weird when you're assessing a team you're supporting rather than from a neutral perspective. France looked to be creating a lot more chances and were more dangerous to me. England hasn't really had a decent defence since Ericsson was in charge, but it looked better for the first time in a while, whereas the actual creativity in mid-field seemed a bit dead. We have no real strikers either without Rooney, so it was going to be a set piece or a lucky chance, which Milner stuffed up royally.

[Randorama]

It's noy about being a Hooligan. Of all the game styles there are in football, the only one I genuinely hate is the Italian.

Please Keep your hate outside this forum, thank you. Do we need this kind of lumpenproletariat shit? No, we don't.

And regarding the basics: Piti pati works exactly in the same way as the style you criticize. The team circulates the ball until the defenders make a mistake. Spain a world cup by 1-0's or milking penalties (like Barcellona), a euro cup by penalty goals. But that's pointless to explain this, judging by the rest of your post.

Skykid: France struck me as quite less organized. While Ribery and the other striker (...Nadi?) created more occasions by themselves, their game was at time quite chaotic. I costantly had the feeling that their mid-field players ran aimlessly half of the time.

England's players, or more accurately the various blocks (defense, midfield) seem to begin to work well, even if attack needs Rooney, for obvious reasons. But England also needs more than Rooney: the lack of good strikers is to say the least disturbing.

I generally think that Hodgson is capitalizing on Capello's work. However, to get a good national team, you'd need to re-think EPL, in which defense is trascured on purpose, so that more goals are scored. I wouldn't blame Eriksson, as he went to be the head coach when the EPL-based problems started to arise. Also, in Italy he was criticized as a defense-obssessed coach (!!!).

Except for Russia, I'd say that the first round of matches doesn't suggest a clear in-form team. I wonder if Russia will suddenly feel the pressure of being favourite and choke

[O. Van Bruce]

You are mistaken... My favorite game style isn't Spain's, I like Germany more.

About Italy and Spain:

Italy waits for a chance when the other team loses the ball in Italy's camp: You see the statistics in Italy's international matches and most of the time they didn't have the ball the majority of time.

Spain takes the ball and mantain it most of the time and pressures on the field of their opponent waiting for an opening on the defence. Besides, they actually go for a second or 3rd goal instead of camping on their side of the field: they need to mantain ball control.


Same goal, different ways of doing it You can actually see it very clearly on their last match.

The problem with Spain is that they lack resolution. Iniesta and Xavi are geniuses on the midfield but when it comes to making the goal, Spain tends to risk little when shooting to the goalkeeper and only on very fast and overly complicated moves. They aren't trained to make long range shots and very limited mid ranged ones. Only on close shots they excel due to their ability to penetrate the defence (after a long time pressure).

PD: And do you really think that being visceral about a game style makes me a mindless Hooligan?

[Randorama]

You are mistaken... My favorite game style isn't Spain's, I like Germany more.

Never said that, though. I watch soccer as a neutral, I am a Rugby person.

I said that piti pati is Italy's catenaccio in the mid-field. If they have the ball, then they keep the ball, and wait for an opening. Italy does this in defense. When they don't have the ball...it depends on who's the coach. Counter-striking was a traditional thing, Prandelli is forcing the players to go and get the ball, with alternate results.

Besides, they actually go for a second or 3rd goal instead of camping on their side of the field: they need to mantain ball control.

Spain won 3-0 against Russia at Euro 2008, then they won both World Cup and Euro by scoring one goal in the knock-out stages. Statistically speaking, this makes them campers, I am afraid.

Mind you, only Germany has a long-term tradition of playing 90 minutes, when they face the knock-out stages (and England, when they had real players like Lineker). Virtually any other European team plays a conservative (...and boring) game, when in front on the score sheet.

Non-european teams try their chances more, judging from the last 2 world cups. In fact, I am quite afraid that the knock-out stages will be a snooze fest. I am rooting for Russia, by this point, as they look quite an aggressive team (well, their attack looks sharp).

PD: And do you really think that being visceral about a game style makes me a mindless Hooligan?

Do you think that you can use a rational tone for the remainder of the discussion, like in this last post? There's really no need to import on the forum the trash-talk of bloody idiots that infest soccer fandom, of which Europe is full.

There are several ways about being visceral, and your initial one is worth a facepalm, don't you agree?

[dan76]

I've been watching (am watching) some of the games. I thought England were ok... far to much time spent defending in their own half. I was sure that France were going to get another, playing that deep is too dangerous. It's good that there is a load of young players in there, though Rooney was badly missed.

There hasn't really been a great game yet. Hopefully it will ignite soon.

[O. Van Bruce]

Besides, they actually go for a second or 3rd goal instead of camping on their side of the field: they need to mantain ball control.

Spain won 3-0 against Russia at Euro 2008, then they won both World Cup and Euro by scoring one goal in the knock-out stages. Statistically speaking, this makes them campers, I am afraid.

I've already stated the reason of those results here:

The problem with Spain is that they lack resolution. Iniesta and Xavi are geniuses on the midfield but when it comes to making the goal, Spain tends to risk little when shooting to the goalkeeper and only on very fast and overly complicated moves. They aren't trained to make long range shots and very limited mid ranged ones. Only on close shots they excel due to their ability to penetrate the defence (after a long time pressure).

Poor, poor Greece... they used to have a team and yesterday they had such a hard time against Czekia.

I liked the Russia-Poland match more though: The unspeakable amount of hate bettwen those 2 nations spice things up (suposedly, there were 100 supportes of both teams that were brawling and got arrrested before and after the match). Also, after Poland did ther goal, it was funny to see how nervous both teams became for the rest of the match, throwing balls to the air and overexterting their training waiting for a miracle to happen. Poland was closer to the 2nd goal but that's just my opinion.

Today: Germany-Holland... let's see what they got.

[Randorama]

The problem with Spain is that they lack resolution. Iniesta and Xavi are geniuses on the midfield but when it comes to making the goal, Spain tends to risk little when shooting to the goalkeeper and only on very fast and overly complicated moves.

And that's camping, like it or not. Long-range options are what a team needs to be incisive and always ready to score more. But please feel free to be in denial.

I liked the Russia-Poland match more though: The unspeakable amount of hate bettwen those 2 nations spice things up (suposedly, there were 100 supportes of both teams that were brawling and got arrrested before and after the match).

:facepalm: This is not sport, this is shit, please keep shit out of the forum.

Russia-Poland was a mysterious match. The russians looked like they lost all their initial sparkle, whereas Poland was lacking it from the first match, too. Czechs looked somewhat better, so I'd reckon that it's a three horse run, in this group.

Germany-The Netherlands...if NL performs a no show like the first match, we should witness a tennis-like score.

[Khan]

The problem with England is sometimes they get really comfortable and try to ease off when the match is in their favour, im glad I didnt put any money down for a win I knew it wouldnt happen anyway

[O. Van Bruce]

oh god. germany and holland are too afraid of each other. thanks for that goal gomez. thigs may start to be interesting now

[Skykid]

Skykid: France struck me as quite less organized. While Ribery and the other striker (...Nadi?) created more occasions by themselves, their game was at time quite chaotic. I costantly had the feeling that their mid-field players ran aimlessly half of the time.

England's players, or more accurately the various blocks (defense, midfield) seem to begin to work well, even if attack needs Rooney, for obvious reasons. But England also needs more than Rooney: the lack of good strikers is to say the least disturbing.

I generally think that Hodgson is capitalizing on Capello's work. However, to get a good national team, you'd need to re-think EPL, in which defense is trascured on purpose, so that more goals are scored. I wouldn't blame Eriksson, as he went to be the head coach when the EPL-based problems started to arise. Also, in Italy he was criticized as a defense-obssessed coach (!!!).

Well I appreciate what positivity you saw. England's toughest group game was France of course, and vise-versa, so it was bound to be a little tentative and cagey. No-one was complaining about the point. If we don't get 3 points from Sweden on Friday then we're useless, because they looked incredibly poor against Ukraine.

I'm expecting that we clear the group now, but being drawn against Spain or Italy could well be the end of the road.

Holland just couldn't make it happen today. Too little too late from Van Persie, who finally broke out of his Torres syndrome - but I always favoured that efficient ice-cold German team to win with their confidence.

Felt bad for the Danes, I thought they stepped it up against Portugal even though they lost in the end, but they gave them a lot of work to do.

[Skykid]

Damn, Croatia are sharp!

[O. Van Bruce]

Just imagine what will happen if Croatia and Spain have a draw in their match with 2 or 3 goals... I think my sides aren't ready for that...

[Niar]

Poor, poor Greece... they used to have a team and yesterday they had such a hard time against Czekia.

Yep. It seemed to be like cheating, but it wasn`t... at the end I`ve even start laughing.Hope they`ll do their best on 16/06
What are your predictions? who and by which number of goals?

[idchappy]

Ireland have been GIVEN a hiding here