The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Oh, and no one else dies to random shots because there aren't random shots, you idiot.

Semantics

For having mastered these games, how is it you suck at them so bad?

I don't. I simply don't get the result that I deserve.

its 5 stages! You do realize people loop 7 stage games right? And you think building consistency for a 5 stage game on its easiest mode is complete luck-based impossible you-could-try-your-entire-life-and-never-succeed bullshit?

Good for them. Are they allergic to sunlight now?

If you make a mistake, fucking bomb! Or lose a life if you are out of bombs. You must make at least 10 mistakes per run, which is 2 mistakes per level... which is far FAR from mastery

You can only bomb when you are getting pinned and realise that it's happening. I almost never get pinned because I know what is coming.

You can't bomb when you get hit by something that you thought you had dodged because you are already dead. 98% of my deaths occur like this.

... so I make 5-6 mistakes; not 10.

5-6 mistakes out of thousands of dodges and judgements and decisions is nothing.

[the.borg]

Another mid-session shut down. Third or forth of the day I think. That's pretty impressive.

These games are just completely rigged. Absolutely and categorically bullshit. I'd go off on a rant but I've said it all before. Great games; Shitty difficulty pretty much sums it up. Infuriating luck-based time-sinks is equally apt.

You could literally waste a lifetime trying to fluke a clear on these and never manage it. All the practice in the world isn't going to change the fact that you make mistakes, and with so many opportunities to do so you are aiming for an outcome that is probabilistically close to impossible.

Apparently I'm the only person in the world who isn't able to flawlessly execute all the sections that he can actually clear every time. Everyone else never dies to random shots, and once they've learnt a section, they never lose a single life to it ever again.

What a load of crap.

I'm going to have to agree with most of what DTP is saying. And I'm in the same kind of situation.

I can't clear Deathsmiles the last boss simply annihilates me (and doing all the game just to train at the last boss is a chore!)

I can't clear futari, stage 3 Boss takes away 2/3 of my lives, then stage 4 does the rest.

I played the shit out of Mushi (ps2) but only Maniac, because bullets are much slower than original. And best I did was reaching the last boss with one life in stock and one bomb

Dodonpachi seems nearly impossible for me, I can sometimes make it to stage 5 but I lose most of my lives there and seldom reach the Boss. (I reached stsage 6 maybe 3 times total) oh and my highscore is 35 MIL so I get both extends :s (also I suck at chaining, can only do it on stage 1 and few bits here and there in other stages)

So yeah all in all you're too harsh on DTP, he isn't the only one having loads of problems while not sucking completely either...

I have a few 1CCs under my belt but only easy ones like Super Aleste (normal, hard, tricky) and things like Super R-Type... (I don't keep a list I forgot most of my 1CCs)

[dunpeal2064]

@DTP

5-6 mistakes in 5 levels is still a lot, for someone who has mastered the stages.

So, every death you get comes from hitting a bullet that you thought you dodged? I'm having a hard time understanding this. the bullets are not alive, they don't move on their own. Maybe you are not focusing enough?

At what point does the game overwhelm you? For example, in Futari, stage 2 is a no miss for me. That means 99/100 runs, I do not get hit on stage 2. You make it sound like you are at those same odds, but that you just keep randomly hitting things? The stage is like 4 minutes long and everything happens the exact same each time.

Edit: well, you edited your post to make it even more intelligent.

So, someone that can loop a Psikyo game has no life, but you sit there "mastering" a game and let it drive you up the wall means that you are the bees knees?

You act like you want to play like these people that are now "allergic to sunlight" so badly, yet you mock them constantly for being better than you?

You say you are "judging" and "deciding" in thousands of dodges. Thats not how its done. You should already know the path you are going to take, not decide as you get there.

and a huge LOL that you actually think you DESERVE to clear these games, even though you can't. thats priceless.

[CloudyMusic]

So yeah all in all you're too harsh on DTP, he isn't the only one having loads of problems while not sucking completely either...

The thing is, there's a difference between saying "I have trouble doing this particular section, I need to practice more" and saying "I've 'completely mastered' this game and I can't clear it, so the clearly problem isn't me, the game is just bullshit".

I don't. I simply don't get the result that I deserve.

See, this is an example of the wrong route to take.

[dunpeal2064]

And everyone who clears it has no life, or just got lucky.

I just don't understand why you would choose to play games that are known for their difficulty over anything else, and then constantly bitch about it instead of letting that difficulty push you to do better.

To think that the top 30 spots in Futari are ALLs, yet DTP thinks the game is impossible bs... just doesn't add up.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I certainly have no desire to play like people who are loping these ridiculously difficult games because I know what it entails. Take the amount of time I have wasted playing and multiply it by a thousand and you still aren't even halfway to the time some of these people spend playing. I imagine it's a life-consuming addiction frankly. Six, seven, eight hours a day wasted repeating the same movements over and over in the hope that "one run" will be the next.

To think that the top 30 spots in Futari are ALLs, yet DTP thinks the game is impossible bs... just doesn't add up.

... and how many of the runs aren't "ALLs"? a hell of a lot more than are. Indicating that it probably isn't the trivial clear that people try to make it out to be.

[dunpeal2064]

Your approach is so wrong.

Time wasted?

I played Futari for maybe 3 hours a week, and cleared both Original modes ni less than a year. And Futari was the first shmup I ever attempted to 1cc. I didn't lose my job, I didn't lose my girlfriend.

And, that entire year I was playing the game and not clearing it was fantastic fun. I wasn't even thinking "grr, why can't I 1cc" until I started regularly making it to Larsa, and by that point, I had the 1cc within a week, because I kept fighting her in practice until it seemed almost boring... which happened within a day.

Now, if I wanted to loop Ketsui URA, yes, it would be quite a lot to take in. However, if I just wanted to play Ketsui for fun, I could play it for years and still have room to progress. If I tried to do it in a week, I would probably think "aww impossble bs', but I know the game isn't designed to be cleared in a week.

Some people actually appreciate the fact that these games are made with longevity in mind.

Edit: you and your edits.

yes, there are a lot of non-ALLs... because if everyone that played the game cleared it, no one would be interested in clearing it.

I 1cc'd many Compile shooters within my first few credits... and I don't ever play them. there is no fun in a game handing you everything... thats why we play these games and not RPGs.

Have you ever even looked at the Futari scoreboards? There are WAY more ALLs than non-ALLs, especially in Original, where every score is an ALL. Foot in mouth?

[Deca]

OK I think I'm ready to support a DTP ban, this is finally starting to bore me.

I can't clear Deathsmiles the last boss simply annihilates me (and doing all the game just to train at the last boss is a chore!)

So don't.

[Illyrian]

Another mid-session shut down. Third or forth of the day I think. That's pretty impressive.

These games are just completely rigged. Absolutely and categorically bullshit. I'd go off on a rant but I've said it all before. Great games; Shitty difficulty pretty much sums it up. Infuriating luck-based time-sinks is equally apt.

You could literally waste a lifetime trying to fluke a clear on these and never manage it. All the practice in the world isn't going to change the fact that you make mistakes, and with so many opportunities to do so you are aiming for an outcome that is probabilistically close to impossible.

Apparently I'm the only person in the world who isn't able to flawlessly execute all the sections that he can actually clear every time. Everyone else never dies to random shots, and once they've learnt a section, they never lose a single life to it ever again.

What a load of crap.

I'm going to have to agree with most of what DTP is saying. And I'm in the same kind of situation.

I can't clear Deathsmiles the last boss simply annihilates me (and doing all the game just to train at the last boss is a chore!)

I can't clear futari, stage 3 Boss takes away 2/3 of my lives, then stage 4 does the rest.

I played the shit out of Mushi (ps2) but only Maniac, because bullets are much slower than original. And best I did was reaching the last boss with one life in stock and one bomb

Dodonpachi seems nearly impossible for me, I can sometimes make it to stage 5 but I lose most of my lives there and seldom reach the Boss. (I reached stsage 6 maybe 3 times total) oh and my highscore is 35 MIL so I get both extends :s (also I suck at chaining, can only do it on stage 1 and few bits here and there in other stages)

So yeah all in all you're too harsh on DTP, he isn't the only one having loads of problems while not sucking completely either...

I have a few 1CCs under my belt but only easy ones like Super Aleste (normal, hard, tricky) and things like Super R-Type... (I don't keep a list I forgot most of my 1CCs)

Have you cleared all of the last 6 touhou games on easy and normal?

No?

Have you cleared blue wish resurrection and eden's aegis on easy and normal? No?

Then fuck off with your whining and try dodonpachi again after you've done this.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Your approach is so wrong.

Maybe. If I wasn't so goal oriented then I guess I couldn't be annoyed. But I am on both counts.

People tell me that I have to have "structured" practice, but that in itself leads you have a goal oriented outlook, which leads to frustration, but if you don't have structured practice then apparently you'll never achieve anything.... you can't win really.

I should probably just stop playing them again because I've reached the same point as always. 90% irritation with 10% fun. If I stop playing though it's back to square one the next time I decide to ill-advisably try them again.

Have you ever even looked at the Futari scoreboards? There are WAY more ALLs than non-ALLs, especially in Original, where every score is an ALL. Foot in mouth?

There weren't the last time I checked. Nothing like the majority of the scores in original are ALL's, let alone all of them. Not sure what copy of the game you've got there.

[dunpeal2064]

I'm talking about OUR high score thread, not the leaderboards.

My bawks broke, so I don't own any copy of this game.

[mesh control]

OK I think I'm ready to support a DTP ban

Backed...
and ban me too plz

[Bananamatic]

I'm not even going to bother with reading this crap

ban plz

[AntiFritz]

I'm going to have to agree with most of what DTP is saying. And I'm in the same kind of situation.

I can't clear Deathsmiles the last boss simply annihilates me (and doing all the game just to train at the last boss is a chore!)

Remember, if you no bomb jitterbug he drops a 2up cake for you, if you manage that you can very easily spam bombs to defeat tyranosatan.

[deexor]

Everyone is pretty quick to berate me with stupid comments when I post, but no-one as yet has come up with the answer as to why I can't clear it (when I'm clearly doing the same things as everyone else).

Every day, the student came to the garden to look at the roses.

He wished to have such beautiful roses himself. He knew every rose, every petal, every leaf, every thorn. He knew how the master tended the roses, the master's routines, even the soil the roses grew in.

Yet, when he tried to grow his own, he never quite succeeded in making his as beautiful as the ones of the garden.

One day, he asked the master, "How do you know the roses so well, to make them as vibrant, as powerful as they are?"

The master replied, "I took a walk in the garden."

[Bananamatic]

Every day, the student came to the garden to look at the roses.

He wished to have such beautiful roses himself. He knew every rose, every petal, every leaf, every thorn. He knew how the master tended the roses, the master's routines, even the soil the roses grew in.

Yet, when he tried to grow his own, he never quite succeeded in making his as beautiful as the ones of the garden.

One day, he asked the master, "How do you know the roses so well, to make them as vibrant, as powerful as they are?"

The master replied, "I took a walk in the garden."

so you are supposed to play Ibara

[mesh control]

likelikelikelikelike

[Illyrian]

I love you, Bananaman.

[deexor]

so you are supposed to play Ibara

I was thinking Pink Sweets but that'll do.

[the.borg]

Another mid-session shut down. Third or forth of the day I think. That's pretty impressive.

These games are just completely rigged. Absolutely and categorically bullshit. I'd go off on a rant but I've said it all before. Great games; Shitty difficulty pretty much sums it up. Infuriating luck-based time-sinks is equally apt.

You could literally waste a lifetime trying to fluke a clear on these and never manage it. All the practice in the world isn't going to change the fact that you make mistakes, and with so many opportunities to do so you are aiming for an outcome that is probabilistically close to impossible.

Apparently I'm the only person in the world who isn't able to flawlessly execute all the sections that he can actually clear every time. Everyone else never dies to random shots, and once they've learnt a section, they never lose a single life to it ever again.

What a load of crap.

I'm going to have to agree with most of what DTP is saying. And I'm in the same kind of situation.

I can't clear Deathsmiles the last boss simply annihilates me (and doing all the game just to train at the last boss is a chore!)

I can't clear futari, stage 3 Boss takes away 2/3 of my lives, then stage 4 does the rest.

I played the shit out of Mushi (ps2) but only Maniac, because bullets are much slower than original. And best I did was reaching the last boss with one life in stock and one bomb

Dodonpachi seems nearly impossible for me, I can sometimes make it to stage 5 but I lose most of my lives there and seldom reach the Boss. (I reached stsage 6 maybe 3 times total) oh and my highscore is 35 MIL so I get both extends :s (also I suck at chaining, can only do it on stage 1 and few bits here and there in other stages)

So yeah all in all you're too harsh on DTP, he isn't the only one having loads of problems while not sucking completely either...

I have a few 1CCs under my belt but only easy ones like Super Aleste (normal, hard, tricky) and things like Super R-Type... (I don't keep a list I forgot most of my 1CCs)

Have you cleared all of the last 6 touhou games on easy and normal?

No?

Have you cleared blue wish resurrection and eden's aegis on easy and normal? No?

Then fuck off with your whining and try dodonpachi again after you've done this.

I thought touhou was frowned upon here in the forum that's why I didn't even mention I cleared most of the last touhou games on normal (except UFO) and Imperishable Night on Hard.

But seriously, telling me to fuck off is only making you look like an asshole here.

[Illyrian]

I already looked like an arsehole long before I said that.

Touhou isn't really frowned on so much here anymore anyway.

[MR_Soren]

I can't clear Deathsmiles the last boss simply annihilates me (and doing all the game just to train at the last boss is a chore!)

Then just practice the last stage, and try some full runs after you've got that down.

If you no-bomb Jitterbug and get the large cake, you should be able to just bomb-spam T-Satan anyway.

So yeah all in all you're too harsh on DTP, he isn't the only one having loads of problems while not sucking completely either...

People don't have problems with DTP's skill level. It's the attitude.

[CloudyMusic]

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I haven't seen too much real hate around here for Touhou itself (quite the opposite, really). It's moreso for the obnoxious Touhou fanboys.

[Bananamatic]

I'll briefly change the topic to PROGEAR'S STAGE DESIGN IS SO FUCKING HORRIBLE IT MAKES DAIOH LOOK GOOD

>pointblanks in a cave game
>enemies from all 8 directions

no
just no
get it away from me

[Randorama]

DTP: a stark example on why eugenics is so right, and why bans for "broken record" people would really be a good thing for the forum.

Can we get rid of this pathetic individual once and for all?

[Illyrian]

I'll briefly change the topic to PROGEAR'S STAGE DESIGN IS SO FUCKING HORRIBLE IT MAKES DAIOH LOOK GOOD

>pointblanks in a cave game
>enemies from all 8 directions

no
just no
get it away from me

Stages 4 and 5 are fun huh?

[Bananamatic]

Stages 4 and 5 are fun huh?

it begins in stage 3

[RNGmaster]

I'll briefly change the topic to PROGEAR'S STAGE DESIGN IS SO FUCKING HORRIBLE IT MAKES DAIOH LOOK GOOD

>pointblanks in a cave game
>enemies from all 8 directions

Lack of deadzones are a kick in the balls, yes, but really what is wrong with having to stay away from the screen edges? This is a CAVE game, of course there's memo and cheapshots, Progear just happens to be a bit more obv than most. I 1-alled on a shitty run with about 5 days of practice, so it's not like it's a difficult clear.

[trap15]

I'll briefly change the topic to PROGEAR'S STAGE DESIGN IS SO FUCKING HORRIBLE IT MAKES DAIOH LOOK GOOD

Don't like Daioh?

[Illyrian]

Stages 4 and 5 are fun huh?

it begins in stage 3

Stage 3 is easy, noob