Too many shooters at once?

[XoPachi]

I cannot seem to 1CC anything as easily as the rest of this community or at all actually. I think it's because I'm playing too many at once rather than sticking to one. I've been playing R-Type Leo, Darius Gaiden, DonPachi, DoDonPachi, DoDonPachi 3, Ketsui, Progear, Mars Matrix, and Giga Wing. I should have already 1CCed at least 2 of these the week I got them. I can't. I do play them a lot. But, I think I'm getting distracted. playing a bunch back to back.

(not actually Strategy-related, moved to Shmups Chat, where I'm sure it will be warmly received)

[rancor]

It took me a little over a year to get my first 1cc. Don't rush it. It's such a great feeling because of the fact that it takes so much time and practice. I'm not saying to give up on all of those games, but what worked for me was to concentrate on one and learn it backwards and forwards. The only reason Gus gets his completes so quickly is that he puts in 5-6 hours per day. The rest of us don't have so much time .. I usually get a little less than 3-4 hours a week.

[njiska]

Yeah, you need to take your time and just focus on one. Flirt with the others, but try to put like 80% of your shmup time in one.

[stryc9]

I'm pretty sure most of the shooters you listed are not easy 1CCs for a start.

Expecting to clear games like Giga Wing and Ketsui within the first week of play is quite an ask.

The only games I've cleared within the first week are DeathSmiles 1 and 2 (level 2 runs), Thunder Force III (Normal and Hard modes), and ummm.... that's it I believe. I could have taken DDP DFK down as well I reckon but since the game is so score obsessed I didn't bother pressing for the 1CC, and still haven't cleared it

Of course, playing all those back to back will make you lose focus, you do need to knuckle down and concentrate on 1 or 2 of them. I suggest 2 so when you burn out over a particular wall you can switch to the other to stop yourself going insane.

Watch some YT vids as well to see the tricks people use to make those games easier for themselves, and hit the Strat section with specific questions about a particular part of a shmup your having difficulties with.

[rancor]

I'm pretty sure most of the shooters you listed are not easy 1CCs for a start.

yeah - after re-reading your list I thought this as well. Gigawing? Progear? haha.. forget it. I have no hopes of ever doing a 1CC on those. Donpachi and Dodonpachi are both very manageable for a beginner.. And I don't mean a week or two later. They'll both require lots of practice, but they're nowhere near the difficulty of the others you listed. If you have a 360, Futari may also be a good place to start.

[man9child]

It's taken me well over a year to get the 1cc on most things. I think a year and half of pretty regular play on Ketsui. There are some exceptions, some games are easier than others. It's not a race, if you like a game and play it long enough you'll learn it. The key is just finding a game you like enough to stick with it through the tough parts.

Obviously certain skill sets are transferable so it will take someone really good at a certain style of game less time to learn a new one.

[XoPachi]

I'm pretty sure most of the shooters you listed are not easy 1CCs for a start.

Expecting to clear games like Giga Wing and Ketsui within the first week of play is quite an ask.

The only games I've cleared within the first week are DeathSmiles 1 and 2 (level 2 runs), Thunder Force III (Normal and Hard modes), and ummm.... that's it I believe. I could have taken DDP DFK down as well I reckon but since the game is so score obsessed I didn't bother pressing for the 1CC, and still haven't cleared it

Watch some YT vids as well to see the tricks people use to make those games easier for themselves, and hit the Strat section with specific questions about a particular part of a shmup your having difficulties with.

Oh god, I'll never 1CC a single Thunderforce. *x*
Watching YT vids makes me feel pathetic. I feel like I'm stealing other peoples' methods. Kinda like doing stuff on my own.

Yeah, you need to take your time and just focus on one. Flirt with the others, but try to put like 80% of your shmup time in one.

I'm going to stick with Ketsui and maybe R-Type, but I see myself quitting the former very soon.

It took me a little over a year to get my first 1cc. Don't rush it. It's such a great feeling because of the fact that it takes so much time and practice. I'm not saying to give up on all of those games, but what worked for me was to concentrate on one and learn it backwards and forwards. The only reason Gus gets his completes so quickly is that he puts in 5-6 hours per day. The rest of us don't have so much time .. I usually get a little less than 3-4 hours a week.

Well if this Gus person can do it, I should be able to. I have a lot of time right now I should have at the very least 1CCed DonPachi already, but I die at stage 3 and can't get it back together so I quit at the next death or right there and move to something else. The only game worth mentioning my 1CC was Mushihimesama Maniac, but does that count if it was iPhone? I doubt it.

[CloudyMusic]

The advice other people have posted so far is good; my only addition would be not to get so hung up on 1cc's as the end-all. If your aim is to simply become good over time, just focus on practicing smart (and scoring, if you have an interest in that) and the clears will eventually come naturally as you get better. The important thing is that you pick a couple of games that you really enjoy and stick with them for a while.

Also, I might suggest giving this guide a read if you haven't yet.

[XoPachi]

I don't think that'll help me. Still, I'll give it a read later. Shooters to me really don't seem like the type of thing you can right guides for (unless it's like the bee locations). I'm trying to get a 1CC and high scores also. Not the highest, but something good. I really don't see much other point to play, honestly. I sure don't have fun dying constantly.

But, thanks for the help.

[stryc9]

Oh god, I'll never 1CC a single Thunderforce. *x*

With Thunder Force III, I threw it on and believe I lost all of my lives at the start of the second stage. Considering people here think it's an easy clear, I thought no, fuck this and within a few nights of practice got the Normal clear, followed closely by the Hard one.

It only seems difficult because of the old school hit-box, but the game is purely memory based, and as with a lot of the older horis, once you get your shield and keep it, it really is a breeze.

[shmuppyLove]

I still play a bunch of different shmups all at the same time as well. Not necessarily trying to 1cc all of them, some are just for fun and I know will require a lot more practice before I can even attempt it.

I think it's good to get a broad range of experience. A well-rounded shmup education

[drboom]

I sure don't have fun dying constantly.

One of the things that seem to make a bettrer player is not caring about dying. I use to get frustrated about this as well until I learned that virtually every run is a 'training run' - rarely will you get the chains and scoring to be consistent from game to game until you have played a TON of it. Think of every run as a training run and you will find STG's to be much more enjoyable, at least, in my opinion.

[malchitos]

Yeah the shmups you listed are pretty hard. Especially mars matrix...wow I love that game. I also notice R-type Leo in your list, you might want to drop back and try R-type(the original). I've never gotten an 1cc myself...I really don't have the time to devote to it.....but I come very close in R-type. It's one of those games where if you are all powered up...as long as you don't get hit....you're on fire.(I guess kinda like the gradius series)

But I think you are right....if you want a 1cc you might want to focus on one at a time. I've spent A lot of time on Akai Katana lately...more than I do on most games....but oddly I find myself focusing on score instead...I'm getting close to 100mil now...which is good for me :>

[chum]

I cannot seem to 1CC anything as easily as the rest of this community or at all actually. I think it's because I'm playing too many at once rather than sticking to one.

I'm the same and still managed plenty of 1CCs despite being a lesser skilled player.

People are really overestimating the amount of practice necessary to beat some of these games. R-Type Leo, DonPachi and Darius Gaiden: these are all games you could beat the first day you spend with them... by just playing and learning.

Just keep playing what you enjoy and the clears will come naturally eventually. You don't have to focus on one game at a time at all.

[XoPachi]

I sure don't have fun dying constantly.

One of the things that seem to make a bettrer player is not caring about dying. I use to get frustrated about this as well until I learned that virtually every run is a 'training run' - rarely will you get the chains and scoring to be consistent from game to game until you have played a TON of it. Think of every run as a training run and you will find STG's to be much more enjoyable, at least, in my opinion.

I just can't see it that way. I seem to get more pissed at DDP4 on the Xbox, though than any others. I can get to the open second loop, but I have no lives by then and when you think about it, autobombing is still dying. So that's a lot of "deaths". And scoring in that game is the only way to survive. But, it's ridiculously hard to perfect. I can get two extends on level 1 in L easy, but I see people getting extends after the first midboss in regular!

Yeah the shmups you listed are pretty hard. Especially mars matrix...wow I love that game. I also notice R-type Leo in your list, you might want to drop back and try R-type(the original). I've never gotten an 1cc myself...I really don't have the time to devote to it.....but I come very close in R-type. It's one of those games where if you are all powered up...as long as you don't get hit....you're on fire.(I guess kinda like the gradius series)

Honestly, I see a lot of bickering between Touhou fans and Cave fans about which is harder. After playing Mars...both sides are still easier than that game. Giga Wing too. Capcom didn't play. I just play Mars for shit's and giggles. I'll never even attempt to play it seriously. And R-Type 1? Are you kidding me? I have Dimensions and I'll never beat either game on one life. Never. I think Leo is the easiest R-Type. I could 1CC that if I stopped making stupid mistakes.

I cannot seem to 1CC anything as easily as the rest of this community or at all actually. I think it's because I'm playing too many at once rather than sticking to one.

I'm the same and still managed plenty of 1CCs despite being a lesser skilled player.

People are really overestimating the amount of practice necessary to beat some of these games. R-Type Leo, DonPachi and Darius Gaiden: these are all games you could beat the first day you spend with them... by just playing and learning.

Just keep playing what you enjoy and the clears will come naturally eventually. You don't have to focus on one game at a time at all.

And it's that kind of attitude that makes me want to quit. If you think Darius Gaiden is easy and can be 1CCed in a day, I must suck something utterly fierce regardless of the original concern in my OP. I can't beat stage 3 without dying. And DonPachi is the easiest in the franchise, but I'm talking about both loops. I still haven't seen stage 5 so again, I have to be doing something wrong if you're saying it can be done in a day rather than a week. :/

Oh god, I'll never 1CC a single Thunderforce. *x*

With Thunder Force III, I threw it on and believe I lost all of my lives at the start of the second stage. Considering people here think it's an easy clear, I thought no, fuck this and within a few nights of practice got the Normal clear, followed closely by the Hard one.

It only seems difficult because of the old school hit-box, but the game is purely memory based, and as with a lot of the older horis, once you get your shield and keep it, it really is a breeze.

I do okay in the third one, but I still gave up trying. It's the 4th motherfucker in the series that kills me. I actually can't see some bullets in some games, because I'm severely colorblind. Raiden fighters (with the bright yellows and whites overlapping with flaming enemy debris), Mars Matrix (with light colored bullets over light terrain), and TF 4 (with very dim flashing bullets sometimes over busy backgrounds) are the worst for me. That's why I like Cave the most. They usually are very color blind friendly with dark blue bullets, fair backgrounds, and pink bullets. I just can't see the flashing missiles in Ketsui usually. Otomedius X did the same thing, but I still cleared that on expert mode no miss in a night...I don't even have it. Konami, that's a problem on YOUR part, not bragging rights on mine.

[Ed Oscuro]

I have this "problem" also.

Part of it is that, in order to get really good scores, you have to be good and put in a hefty time commitment. Unfortunately, even with my love for some very rudimentary games, it's hard to keep the faith with something that doesn't change week in and out.

Since the main purpose of games is to have fun, you might as well mix it up a bit.

But at the same time, don't give up! The strategy of playing through to the end of your credit is good; setting realistic goals (bosses make this easy, as do choke points; games with random item spawns make this hard, i.e. Daioh or trying to go for the silver plane formation in Flying Shark) is also useful. It'll be up to you whether to play through to the end of the game and then try to repeat or improve on that performance (using credits), or to just try to go for a highscore and push back the boundaries. If you "spoil" later stages of the game early, that can be an impediment to playing more of it later, and I think a lot of games are revealed more naturally and compellingly if you battle through on just one credit to see how far you can survive. On the other hand, the credit feeding method will help you avoid stage 1 - 3 burnout.

The most important thing is to find really good games. It's amazing that any games made to short order in the 80s or 90s still hold up today (a few in MAME from the 70s are good too), but even among these there are definitely some that are missing good features (some games got home console ports that help their playability, i.e. Gigawing games get a boss rush for Dreamcast, I believe).

[Legendary Hoamaru]

You're getting too caught up on what other people are doing, without understanding how they got there.

This isn't directed at you specifically, as I see it from players in all genres and activities, especially competitive ones:

Getting good at something really really really takes time. Please don't discredit the amount of work players put in to get at the level they are at. I think in the age of youtube, we get so used to just seeing the fantastic gameplays from these players that we overlook and underestimate how much it really takes to get there.

You say you don't have fun constantly dying, but trust me, the players you we're watching or reading have been at that point too. They kept playing regardless. We don't see how bad they may have been when they started out, we don't see the constant amount of practicing they had to do, so we assume that they just have an easier time getting to that point. There is no denying that people learn at different rates, but they all still have to really practice to get good.

I think you'll definitely see improvement focusing on a lower amount of shmups at a time. Knowing enemy layout and positions goes a long way in helping 1cc a game.

If you want some motivation, check out some of the Japan livestreams in the livestream topic. Players over there struggle and practice in the same way we do too .

[XoPachi]

I have this "problem" also.

Part of it is that, in order to get really good scores, you have to be good and put in a hefty time commitment. Unfortunately, even with my love for some very rudimentary games, it's hard to keep the faith with something that doesn't change week in and out.

Since the main purpose of games is to have fun, you might as well mix it up a bit.

But at the same time, don't give up! The strategy of playing through to the end of your credit is good; setting realistic goals (bosses make this easy, as do choke points; games with random item spawns make this hard, i.e. Daioh or trying to go for the silver plane formation in Flying Shark) is also useful. It'll be up to you whether to play through to the end of the game and then try to repeat or improve on that performance (using credits), or to just try to go for a highscore and push back the boundaries. If you "spoil" later stages of the game early, that can be an impediment to playing more of it later, and I think a lot of games are revealed more naturally and compellingly if you battle through on just one credit to see how far you can survive. On the other hand, the credit feeding method will help you avoid stage 1 - 3 burnout.

The most important thing is to find really good games. It's amazing that any games made to short order in the 80s or 90s still hold up today (a few in MAME from the 70s are good too), but even among these there are definitely some that are missing good features (some games got home console ports that help their playability, i.e. Gigawing games get a boss rush for Dreamcast, I believe).

I 100% refuse to credit feed. I'll take the burnout. Besides, I get killed at the end of stage two in all Cave games anyway at least so I need to try hard. I've got most of the games I need already. The only ones I want left are Xexex, Image Fight, ESPGaluda 1, and that delicious monster of a game KetsuiPachi. I'll pretty much be straight for shooters when I get those. All the ones I named previously are the only "PC" ones I play and I need to find out how to get DFK Black on an American Xbox. No one has given an accurate tutorial. :/

You're getting too caught up on what other people are doing, without understanding how they got there.

This isn't directed at you specifically, as I see it from players in all genres and activities, especially competitive ones:

Getting good at something really really really takes time. Please don't discredit the amount of work players put in to get at the level they are at. I think in the age of youtube, we get so used to just seeing the fantastic gameplays from these players that we overlook and underestimate how much it really takes to get there.

You say you don't have fun constantly dying, but trust me, the players you we're watching or reading have been at that point too. They kept playing regardless. We don't see how bad they may have been when they started out, we don't see the constant amount of practicing they had to do, so we assume that they just have an easier time getting to that point. There is no denying that people learn at different rates, but they all still have to really practice to get good.

I think you'll definitely see improvement focusing on a lower amount of shmups at a time. Knowing enemy layout and positions goes a long way in helping 1cc a game.

If you want some motivation, check out some of the Japan livestreams in the livestream topic. Players over there struggle and practice in the same way we do too .

I saw a guy 1CC shooters back to back for 24 hours straight and post the videos on YouTube. Smradeus? That's where I stopped discouraging myself by watching videos and streams. I'm sure as Hell not watching JAPANESE players live, man. I don't care if they struggle because they do better than me. The last pro I watched was for SaiDaiOuJou and that was because I wanted to see the game. And that's another example of natural talent. The game JUST came out and people have already 1CCed the Hell out of it. And isn't it in arcades only still? I'm not saying everyone's God mode like this, but most players I see are and apparently this Gus person here apparently is too from what someone else said.

[Ed Oscuro]

I 100% refuse to credit feed. I'll take the burnout.

Just so long as you aren't wasting time on a level you know to the detriment of practicing later levels, and begin to hate the early level - at some stage, pretty much everybody will have to credit feed to get their best practice in, once reaching the final boss (at the second loop) is no problem. The best players do it.

I savestated my way through X-Multiply the other day. I didn't feel like it discourages me from practicing the game. Perhaps it's partly the case that there isn't quite as much of an adrenaline rush when beating segments in that game, for me, because the deaths are really cheap and bosses don't have life meters to gauge your progress with.

By the way, Smraedis isn't Japanese.

[Legendary Hoamaru]

I should have known better. It's fine, keep discrediting player's efforts.

[XoPachi]

I should have known better. It's fine, keep discrediting player's efforts.

And there's no need to try and warp what I said into some horrible conundrum. No one is discrediting anyone. I'm saying some players are just naturally better than most which is true for anything. Some people have gifts. What's the problem?

I 100% refuse to credit feed. I'll take the burnout.

Just so long as you aren't wasting time on a level you know to the detriment of practicing later levels, and begin to hate the early level - at some stage, pretty much everybody will have to credit feed to get their best practice in, once reaching the final boss (at the second loop) is no problem. The best players do it.

I savestated my way through X-Multiply the other day. I didn't feel like it discourages me from practicing the game. Perhaps it's partly the case that there isn't quite as much of an adrenaline rush when beating segments in that game, for me, because the deaths are really cheap and bosses don't have life meters to gauge your progress with.

By the way, Smraedis isn't Japanese.

Ugh...I'm just very harsh on myself, I guess.

And I know he's not Japanese, I saw him in his videos. The statement after it was meant as a sarcastic remark. "If Smaredus is that good these Japanese stream players will most likely be as good or better." Is what I was hoping it would come across as. Sorry for that.

[dunpeal2064]

Yeah, you are being too hard on yourself. I used to do the same thing, always playing like I was going to break a WR, never watching replays (and yes, I realize those 2 comments contradict each other), restarting constantly.... and then I realized that if I just play, and build muscle memory, that I will get better AND have fun.

Playing older stuff like Raiden II really helps, as you HAVE to have that muscle memory to get anywhere. In Cave games, you can kinda cheese your way through levels even if you don't have them memorized.

Not that you have to study replays and try to actually memorize games... that just comes with playing them for a while. Just don't try to rush through the experience. The games are fun even if you don't break a record every time.

[Legendary Hoamaru]

I should have known better. It's fine, keep discrediting player's efforts.

And there's no need to try and warp what I said into some horrible conundrum. No one is discrediting anyone. I'm saying some players are just naturally better than most which is true for anything. Some people have gifts. What's the problem?

My issue with your post is how you claim people clearing Saidaioujou early was mostly based on natural talent, ignoring the fact that that the players that 1cced it quickly more than likely practiced the previous games in the series (or other games on its difficulty level). A lot of shmups skills CARRY OVER to other games. Someone who has put tons of time into DoDonPachi, Daioujou, Daifukkatsu is of course going to have an easier time when they get to Saidoujou. Like I said before, it's no denying some people learn better, but that only takes you so far.

You didn't point out in your post that you believed it's because they spent more time with the genre then you have. You just stated they had natural talent, so how would I know? Maybe I suck ass at reading comprehension.

Another thing that I had an issue with is that you said you don't care if others had struggle, you automatically assumed they were better than you when really, that might not have been the case.

One mindstate I think may help you is realizing you suck ass right now. You suck, you get killed by stuff other people don't, you take longer to learn. Embrace the suckyness, keep your expectations in check. If you have low expectations to begin with, then there is nowhere to go but up, right?

Well it works for me...

[XoPachi]

I should have known better. It's fine, keep discrediting player's efforts.

And there's no need to try and warp what I said into some horrible conundrum. No one is discrediting anyone. I'm saying some players are just naturally better than most which is true for anything. Some people have gifts. What's the problem?

My issue with your post is how you claim people clearing Saidaioujou early was mostly based on natural talent, ignoring the fact that that the players that 1cced it quickly more than likely practiced the previous games in the series (or other games on its difficulty level). A lot of shmups skills CARRY OVER to other games. Someone who has put tons of time into DoDonPachi, Daioujou, Daifukkatsu is of course going to have an easier time when they get to Saidoujou. Like I said before, it's no denying some people learn better, but that only takes you so far.

You didn't point out in your post that you believed it's because they spent more time with the genre then you have. You just stated they had natural talent, so how would I know? Maybe I suck ass at reading comprehension.

Another thing that I had an issue with is that you said you don't care if others had struggle, you automatically assumed they were better than you when really, that might not have been the case.

One mindstate I think may help you is realizing you suck ass right now. You suck, you get killed by stuff other people don't, you take longer to learn. Embrace the suckyness, keep your expectations in check. If you have low expectations to begin with, then there is nowhere to go but up, right?

Well it works for me...

Ok. I guess I should have thought that skills would carry over. So that was just flat out my own idiocy. My apologies.

You don't suck at comprehension. That was my mistake on clarity, reading again. I didn't mean to say their struggles aren't of any merit. I was saying that even if they are struggling, the Japanese players in the streams, chances are what they consider "struggling" is what I do on a good day. So I would still feel discouraged out of inferiority regardless of how much trouble they have.

I always figured natural talent was just naturally being better than the rest, but not perfect. I projected that on you even though you don't share the same view (I think). By natural talent I mean at the start of practice for the first time, they're already good, but just need to be refined. Like rough diamonds, needing laser perfection. Not as much work as the rest of us, but still work needed.

And believe me whole heartily, I KNOW I suck at shooters. ;-;

[Kollision]

I 100% refuse to credit feed. I'll take the burnout.

There it is, one of the root causes of your frustration IMO.

"Practicing" is part of the process.
Credit feed, activate stage select, save state, watch replays.

"Enjoyment" is another important part of the process.
What good does it do if you don't credit feed/save state and keep hitting the same wall over and over? None. It just leads into misuse of (precious) time, anger escalation, bad mood, burnouts, etc....

[MR_Soren]

One mindstate I think may help you is realizing you suck ass right now. You suck, you get killed by stuff other people don't, you take longer to learn. Embrace the suckyness, keep your expectations in check. If you have low expectations to begin with, then there is nowhere to go but up, right?

I've offered DTP similar advice to what I've quoted above, but he ignored it. I still think it is good advice. A lot of this stuff is mindset related. You have to accept that you suck, realize how much effort the good players put into the games and genre, and understand that there is a long road to becoming a competent scorer. It is not about natural talent, it is about dedication.

It's also important to not be bothered by dying in these games. They're hard. Dying is part of the process. Make each death matter. Think to yourself, "What did I do wrong?" or "How can I avoid this attack?" If you weren't sure, save the replay and watch it a few times. Don't just look at what killed you, but also look for alternate routes that might be safer.

I think it's a poor choice to limit oneself to a small selection of mostly difficult games and lay down blanket laws like, "I will never credit feed!" Playing more games gives you a better chance of finding one that you will enjoy enough to put forth the required effort, and credit feeding becomes more efficient for practice purposes after a certain point.

Refusing to watch replays is denying the culture these games were born from. In an arcade, most of your time is spent watching and discussing, not playing. Trying to learn every nuance, route, pattern, and strategy by yourself would be a monumental effort. For this reason, I wish the Xbox 360 STGs had a spectator mode for party chat.

[moozooh]

If Darius Gaiden's difficulty concerns you, it doesn't necessarily mean you utterly suck, but it might indicate that you're doing something very wrong. Have a checklist:

— playing without autofire (makes the game harder by an order of magnitude);
— picking up a bad route (clear ABDHLQV first, it's easier and handsomely pays off in score);
— powering up the main weapon as soon as possible (increases rank, making the game harder);
— not knowing where the secret 1-up items are (there are two on any route);
— spending most of the time at the left edge of the screen (your rate of fire increases dramatically if you move closer to the right edge);
— not looking for efficient ways to deal with particular tricky parts, being killed there over and over.

If you don't do any of this... then yes, I guess you're just that bad. :)

[Erppo]

Umm, if you count 1-loop clears (like people here usually seem to do) most of the games listed in the first post are in the easier side. Of course that's not to say you shouldn't have trouble with them when starting out, everyone has.

While some people can clear a new game in a couple of days or less, most of this has nothing to do with some born talent. Rather it's a mix of experience and efficient practice. Basic skills carry over and the only way to gain those is to keep playing. Efficient practice means not just banging your head against the game with blind credits, but rather taking an analytic look over the game, experimenting (with credit feeding, practice modes, savestates or whatever way you like) watching replays of other players and generally trying to take the game apart and find the best ways to survive it. It's just something you learn to do, like anything else there is.

[Ed Oscuro]

I've offered DTP similar advice to what I've quoted above, but he ignored it.

It is good advice, and DTP disrespects everyone by stubbornly refusing to try to think outside his self-imposed limitations, or by expecting it to change how he plays overnight.

Personally, I just pick up arcade games for a short period of time, but drop them before I really have a lot of practice time in. Even having left a game for a long while, though, I find I can come back to them with fresh perspective and maybe even some new ideas (Twin Hawk, although frustrating, is a lot less frustrating than it was when I first tried it out), plus the memory of most of the lessons from before. There are a few reasons why I am doing this, but mainly it's just that games are meant to be fun for me. There are a few that I have trained to become competent with, but not many.

[XoPachi]

This is REALLY getting off topic from my OP. Wow

If Darius Gaiden's difficulty concerns you, it doesn't necessarily mean you utterly suck, but it might indicate that you're doing something very wrong. Have a checklist:

— playing without autofire (makes the game harder by an order of magnitude);
— picking up a bad route (clear ABDHLQV first, it's easier and handsomely pays off in score);
— powering up the main weapon as soon as possible (increases rank, making the game harder);
— not knowing where the secret 1-up items are (there are two on any route);
— spending most of the time at the left edge of the screen (your rate of fire increases dramatically if you move closer to the right edge);
— not looking for efficient ways to deal with particular tricky parts, being killed there over and over.

If you don't do any of this... then yes, I guess you're just that bad.

I do play with autofire not as rapidly as I saw somewhere else though (don't know how to get it that fast).
The paths are hard no matter what I choose so that'll just take time.
I didn't know that, but I doubt it's that big a difference. I'll still try. But won't bosses take much longer increasing the chances of death?
Secret 1 ups don't matter to me since I'm not trying to die period in that game specifically. Losing everything absolutely bounds me to bomb spamming and less killing power which means more dying. And if I shouldn't powerup immediately, dying will get me to bare bones faster doubling the death toll.
Tried it. Got annihilated because I couldn't see what was coming.
Tricky parts might come with time. I can't split second analyze and recording chops the frame rate making it unplayable so I have no choice.

Never hid not being good.

One mindstate I think may help you is realizing you suck ass right now. You suck, you get killed by stuff other people don't, you take longer to learn. Embrace the suckyness, keep your expectations in check. If you have low expectations to begin with, then there is nowhere to go but up, right?

I've offered DTP similar advice to what I've quoted above, but he ignored it. I still think it is good advice. A lot of this stuff is mindset related. You have to accept that you suck, realize how much effort the good players put into the games and genre, and understand that there is a long road to becoming a competent scorer. It is not about natural talent, it is about dedication.

It's also important to not be bothered by dying in these games. They're hard. Dying is part of the process. Make each death matter. Think to yourself, "What did I do wrong?" or "How can I avoid this attack?" If you weren't sure, save the replay and watch it a few times. Don't just look at what killed you, but also look for alternate routes that might be safer.

I think it's a poor choice to limit oneself to a small selection of mostly difficult games and lay down blanket laws like, "I will never credit feed!" Playing more games gives you a better chance of finding one that you will enjoy enough to put forth the required effort, and credit feeding becomes more efficient for practice purposes after a certain point.

Refusing to watch replays is denying the culture these games were born from. In an arcade, most of your time is spent watching and discussing, not playing. Trying to learn every nuance, route, pattern, and strategy by yourself would be a monumental effort. For this reason, I wish the Xbox 360 STGs had a spectator mode for party chat.

I personally think being extremely good requires both for most anything.

I used to watch replays and it still didn't help. I saw someone get and use hyper when trying to enter the hidden route in DFK. I got hyper the same way, but when I used it no matter how fast I was to blow the canisters I never got the hidden loop when using hyper. I assumed it was either a glitch the person did, or the game doesn't allow it. And after 2 hours of retries and seeing what happens if I don't activate hyper I concluded I just couldn't do it.
Another example would be that I'll try and let the 3rd hidden mid boss run away to preserve my combo like I saw in a replay (someone here sent actually). Even without dying or bombing, once without hyper even, Raiko still never appeared in stage 4. However, he still appeared with the same tactic in the replay. So I stopped watching and pissing myself off.
And I also refuse to watch replays for the same reasons I refuse to copy school work. I want to find out how to do it myself rather than blatantly copy someone else's hard work. THAT to me is disrespectful. Just carbon copying someone else's routine makes me feel like trash. Why would I pride 1CC's I didn't fully create myself? That's how I see it.
I didn't have any arcades anywhere around me growing up. Especially not with these games, so I'm not going to see eye to eye with that. If I could learn everything myself in these games I'd feel much better. But, you guys are giving stuff I didn't even ask for!!1 >:V

EDIT: Well...I almost 1CCed DoDonPachi's 1st loop tonight. Bombs were my best friend, though. Q^Q