Ships with wide shots better?

[Captain]

Or are ships with wide shots always/generally better for survival/scoring?

(Mod edit - changed thread title from "Is it just me?" to something that matches the content of the thread)

[AntiFritz]

Ageha wants a word with you.

[Captain]

Keep in mind that I actually like the fast and narrow-shot ships more, but people (and I) think that you have a better chance with the wide-slow ones.

[KAI]

DOJ's type B, Ibara's Dyne.
They are better for survival, not scoring.

[O. Van Bruce]

DEADLIAR...

But yeah, ample shot it's for survival...

anyway, this thread is like talking about metarules... nobody says it but everybody knows it...

[endoKarb]

I always had the opposite impression, that fast ships were better.

[MR_Soren]

Depends on the game.

Often, what is good for survival is not good for scoring.

[njiska]

I always had the opposite impression, that fast ships were better.

Yeah as do I. The only time I've found wide shot better is in a game like Riaden where it has no effect on your tugboat speed. In a game like Mushihimesama you may as well be holding down shot the entire time. Very annoying to dodge fast things. The benefits of the wideshot are useless compared to your movement speed.

[Jeneki]

Many games with modern scoring systems often have reasons to not destroy every popcorn enemy the second they appear (lining up medals, chaining, etc).

I think spread dominance was more noticeable in some older games where the number of shots you could have on screen was limited. Raiden was a good example of this, point blanking with the spread shot vs the laser.

[Vyxx]

I always found the faster ships with the shitty wide shot, but strong focused shot better for survival play. Maybe that's just me though, I like to play Dangun Feveron on the fastest ship speed as well.

[FIL]

I had the impression that slow ships with wide shot were good for beginners and faster ships for more advanced play when you're less ham fisted. In modern shmups at least. Depends on the game I guess.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Ageha wants a word with you.

In Galuda 2, the extra damage definitely helps, Tateha feels too weak.

However, in Galuda 1, the only advantages Ageha has are faster movement speed and kakusei laser boost. Narrow shot's more meant for scoring. Tateha, oddly enough, has both the spread shot as well as a slightly stronger normal-mode laser (despite only having a single beam). Kakusei boosted shot is harder to use in tight waves, but it's still very effective with a bit of practice and seems to do as much if note more damage than Ageha's Kakusei laser if you're up close to a boss and the whole spread is hitting. You're also generally doing most of your boss damage via the normal mode laser, even if just focusing on 1CCing, so I'd say Tateha's got the edge in Espgaluda for 1CCing ease, even if she's a tad slower.

[Ed Oscuro]

Wide shot sucks unless you point-blankin

And even then it sometimes still does (see: Twin Hawk)

[endoKarb]

I was bored so I went through the world record list for Cave games:

Fastest Ship/Straight Shot ~ 11

Dangun Feveron [Uo Poko]
Deathsmiles Mega Black Label [Windia]
Dodonpachi [Type A-L]
Dodonpachi Campaign Version [Type A-L]
Dodonpachi Daioujou [Type A-E]
Dodonpachi Daioujou Black Label [Type A-E]
Donpachi [Type A]
ESPGaluda II [Ageha]
Ibara [Bond (D)]
Ibara Black Label [Bond (D)]
Mushihimesama Futari Black Label [Palm]

Slowest Ship/Wide Shot ~ 8

Deathsmiles [Rosa]
Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu 1.5 (OMOTE) [Type C-P]
ESPGaluda [Tateha]
Ketsui [Type A]
Muchi Muchi Pork [Momo]
Mushihimesama [Type-W]
Mushihimesama Futari [Reco (Normal)]
Progear No Arashi [Ring]

Other ~ 4

Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu 1.5 (URA) [Type B-P]
Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu Black Label [Type B-P]
ESPRa.De. [Irori]
Guwange

Don't know these

Death Smiles II (Ver.2.00) [Soupy]
Death Smiles II (Ver.3.00) [Casper]
Death Smiles II (Ver.4.00) [Lei]
Pink Sweets ~ Ibara Sorekara [Lace]

Pretty balanced. Older games seem to favor faster ships, while newer ones reward a wide shot better.

[Captain]

The problem with the first few posts is that you said which ships you like better, not which ships are considered better.
I like the fast narrow ships more too.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Wide shot sucks unless you point-blankin

And even then it sometimes still does (see: Twin Hawk)

Pfft.

[MrChiggins]

I generally think of wide shot as being better for scoring and narrow shot better for survival. But this is just speaking in generalities.

In my idea of a hypothetical "standard" well-balanced game...

Wide =
*Slower ship
*More varied damage potential i.e. less (but more widespread) damage when hugging the bottom of the screen, more damage when point-blanking
*50% damage when attacking a single enemy from the bottom of the screen
*100% damage when point-blanking a single enemy

Narrow =
*Faster ship
*Shot damage has no variability based on position
*75% damage when attacking from anywhere


Of course this doesn't take into account things like power-ups, bombs being different for different ship types, the scoring system, the enemy patterns, wide being UBERSLOW, narrow being UBERFAST, etc.

[Obscura]

Deathsmiles [Rosa]

Eh? Rosa is a narrow-shot, that chubby bitch who wears green is the wide shot...

[manatworks]

Deathsmiles [Rosa]

Eh? Rosa is a narrow-shot, that chubby bitch who wears green is the wide shot...

isn't Rosa Homing type?

[LtC]

Best wideshot: DDP DOJ type A-E

[Ed Oscuro]

Wide shot sucks unless you point-blankin

And even then it sometimes still does (see: Twin Hawk)

Pfft.

I think I have a new task before me! I've tried that, but didn't get it down to perfection obviously. The place where he loses the helpers is pretty much unavoidable, though.

But yeah, the actual plane's wide shot is still tricky to use. Sometimes the bullets will go right through what you're shooting at (i.e. the first big tank of the game; the bullets will impact further to the back on the left, and the hitbox of some tanks is notably smaller than their actual sprite).

Update: Helper planes still suck

[xbl0x180]

It depends on the game, but, generally, I see wide shots as weak (i.e., Super E.D.F. and Gate Of Thunder). For example, in Eschatos, I use wide shot most of the time to take care of the popcorn enemy, but the focused shots work best on the main UFO and other bigger ships. Hell, for Raiden IV, I love the strong laser that goes through the enemy rather than just pop on their outer shell (the way it does with rockets and the wide shot). In that sense, it's harder for me to survive on wide shots

[endoKarb]

Deathsmiles [Rosa]

Eh? Rosa is a narrow-shot, that chubby bitch who wears green is the wide shot...

Eh, I guess so. But she's definitely the slowest. I dunno, deathsmiles characters don't fit with traditional archetypes so well.

[finisherr]

I usually prefer the faster ship with a strong focused shot. In Raiden IV, however, it has no affect on speed. So, trying to get around with that narrow laser going SUPER slow mostly gets me killed, although it's good for boss battles.