Dodonpachi DOJ Beginner - Confused About Versions/Ships

[brentsg]

That's a PGM2 version of DOJ that was released for the Asian market. As I understand it has a mode that's easier than "white label" but also not black label.

[moozooh]

I have a question. Found this arcade in Moscow centre.

Moscow as in the capital of Russia? Where is this arcade and what does one credit cost?

[astroid]

Yes, capital of Russia One credit costs 40rub (1.3$). Arcade is located in the Children's Center "Ocean child" and this cabinet is called "Children's entertainment device" http://www.igra-life.ru/hovrino/services/

PS. Bumpin this topic (what the name!) is more suitable, i think, than create a new one.

[BarfHappy]

40rub/jeton... but... do you have to be minor or be with one ? xD

You had to be searching to come across that kind of cab

[astroid]

No search. Simply carried the small child to playcenter. By the way is usually 50rub for credit (There are many other shitty arcades in different places)

[moozooh]

This is amazing... An actual arcade here in Russia! With a rather sane coin price, even! No idea how they came up with having DOJ at a playcenter for children, or at all how they found it, but more power to them, lol.

I think I'm going to pay this place a visit this weekend. This is only in Hovrino, right? Have you been to their other site in TC Kapitoliy? The site says there are some 45 features that may or may not be arcade cabs.

Do you know of any other arcades in Moscow that have shmups? I've been to a lot of trade centers and cinemas and such, but it's usually some Tekken/racing games/lightgun shooters. I've even seen Densha De Go (I bet it's a ton of fun) once, but no Strikers or anything like that. :(

[astroid]

This is the first shmup arcade i've seen in our trade centers) We have actual listing of Moscow arcades and all of them are fighting/racing/FPS only. This photo and small video taken from Hovrino, dunno about their other site.

DDP is in cabinet with white screen This is an old photo, they moved it.

[BarfHappy]

No search. Simply carried the small child to playcenter. By the way is usually 50rub for credit (There are many other shitty arcades in different places)

I see ! nice Papa o/
In France it s usually 40, but there are places much less expensive, though not in Paris. In here we mostly play arcade at home.. the arcade games centers are in very small number.

[brentsg]

This is an old photo, they moved it.

This looks like the most unlikely place to find a DOJ cab!

[BarfHappy]

This looks like the most unlikely place to find a DOJ cab!

Yep, no wonder, it s a BEE bonus !

[CloudyMusic]

DDP is in cabinet with white screen This is an old photo, they moved it.

Now I think I've seen everything.

[astroid]

Does MAME support this ver?? Some more photos:

[AntiFritz]

Is that picture stretched? it looks as though it is.

[moozooh]

Wait a minute... it's 16:9?

[astroid]

YES, its 16:9 LCD monitor and picture doesnot looks blurry and stretched (look at the bullets)


I found discussion and this PCB here
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 01#p618701

Its good to move our (off)topic posts to that thread...

[TrevHead (TVR)]

This is an old photo, they moved it.

This looks like the most unlikely place to find a DOJ cab!

The playcenter owner must be a uber shmup fan, training the next generation on DOJ

[Obscura]

I didn't know it was even possible to make it to stage 5 and not get the second extend.

As for the OP- just pick A-Exy. Additional bombs aren't as big of a help, even for raw survival, as actually being able to kill shit is.

[trap15]

YES, its 16:9 LCD monitor and picture doesnot looks blurry and stretched (look at the bullets)
(image)

I found discussion and this PCB here
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 01#p618701

Its good to move our (off)topic posts to that thread...

Wow! That not only looks native 16:9, but it looks way better than original DOJ. No longer looks like shit-smeared garbage

Anyways, MAME does not support it, as IGS totally nailed the security. Think protection of the later PGM games times 4

[KAI]

Playing surrounded by little kids, i'm sure it makes that version 1000 times harder than white.

[colour_thief]

Hey guys, I went googling and came across some more info on that 16:9 cabinet. The cabinet is made by Tong Li Animation. Their website is really cute... they call shmups "Flight Fire" games.


http://www.tl300.net/goods.php?id=19

It's hard to tell exactly how legitimate they are. On the one hand, they have a splash screen visible in those Moscow arcade photos, and they claim to have relations with IGS, Konami, SNK, Sanwa, and more. And their assembly line photos really show that they mean serious business.


http://www.tl300.net/article.php?id=15

On the other hand, they are claiming to offer high res versions of DDP DOJ Tamashi/Hun, Gigawing 2, and some 3D verts ranging from Ikaruga to Zero Gunner 2 to Shikigami II. I can see simple sloppy 16:9 stretching ports of the 3D games, but did they really get Cave and Takumi to redo old 2D games in high res 16:9? So much about their product line makes you scratch your head. Really, was there a reason to re-release Varth in 2011?

At the bare minimum, whoever is in charge of their website has no access to official game art and is using pictures that are some combination of google image search and photoshop. The Ikaruga photo has the word unofficial on it if you zoom in. Shikigami II has a Shikigami III picture. And I swear the Raiden IV toresetsu on the cab mockup is a random fighter plane unrelated to Raiden.

Incidentally, they refer to this DDP DOJ as a 'Hun' version. I think that's Chinese for Soul, and since the game is for Chinese-language markets, possibly instead of calling it the Tamashi version it should be the Hun version.

[AntiFritz]

Hahaha, soulcalibur 2 is my favourite high resolution "flight fire" game, complete with boxart ripped from sc3...

http://www.tl300.net/goods.php?id=144

[Vyxx]

Is that picture stretched? it looks as though it is.

Hella stretched.

[Dave_K.]

Agree, its stretched. And PGM2 cannot do HD, thats just marketing speak for upscaled with something better than that $39 Chinese made CGA2VGA. The other games mentioned can all do 480p (but again will look horrible if stretched).

[astroid]

Someone suggested that logo
- means SOUL

http://rehctaw.blog.shinobi.jp/Entry/474/

i.e. DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou Soul ver

[moozooh]

http://www.cave-stg.com/forum/index.php?topic=870.0

[ancestral-knowledge]

Does anyone remember this thread? Well I do!


I have 1CC'ed Dodonpachi DOJ White Label on the PS2 today! I used B-S to 1CC it and it was a hell of a ride! Let's start from the beginning.

When I opened this thread DOJ was just impossible to clear with my skills. Even with the help of everyone in this thread (especially moozooh with his mame replay and good tips) I just couldn't do it. I tried several times but I got murdered at the stage 2 boss which at that time seemed so fucking unfair I wanted to throw this game away. And don't even get me started on stage 3...

So I admitted defeat and put it away playing other games. I even 1CCed some games (like Futari Original, yes laugh at me again) and built up my skills while doing so. However i could never completely forget DOJ. DOJ for the PS2 had always a special place in my heart because it was my first bullet hell shmup that I bought. I got into shmups because of a silly video on youtube where someone defeated Hibachi. I thought: "Holy shit! This is insane! What game is this and do space ship shooters still exist?" Yeah, I called shmups space ship shooters back then because I only knew r-type at tht point and in order to not get cofused with FPS' I always called them spaceship shooters. I cannot stress out enough how important videos like "OMG HARDEST GAME EVAR" are on youtube in order to get new people to play shmups. They make a huge impression on outsiders.

The video just blew me away. I had to have this game. I got myself a JP PS2 with a voltage transformator (how do you call these things?) and DOJ for PS2. I hooked it up to my old CRT screen and got fucking murdered. Playing with a playstation controller was not really helping much and the game was so hard that I threw the controller across the room several times. "Why do i suck so much?" I searched for answers and dived deeper into the shmups scene discovering this forum. I read all the threads, got a JP xbox360, a JP saturn, several arcade sticks and started playing shmups. I began to understand bullet hell shooters more and more and after some progress I thought it was time to tackle DOJ White Label, my first shmup, again. At that time I also had the black label version, but it had to be the PS2 version, my first shmup, no matter what. Then I saw an incredible video of sapzdude who cleared Futari 1.01 Original. It may sound stupid to you but it impressed me so much that he defeated the harder older version noone bothers about anymore. I thought : "Hey that's the same situation like mine! I have an older version of DOJ noone cares about anymore too! Wouldn't that be cool to 1CC ?! Let's do this!"

So I started playing this game seriously at the end of January 2013. I played 3h a day but not on weekends and holidays. I always went for the 1CC because chaining in White Label is fucking impossible with SHOTIA and I don't like playing for score. White Label is fucking brutal. SHOTIA is just so slow and her laser sucks completely. You have to memorize everything perfectly because you won't have time to get away from danger. Another problem is: There are no White Label SHOTIA youtube videos (only superplays) or guides. I was on my own and whenever I asked about strategies for White Label the answer would be: "Don't play White Label with SHOTIA. It's horrible!" Every replay and advice is for Black Label in which SHOTIA is a decent choice for a 1 CC. Let me just add that I personally think that 70-90% of the replays with mame on youtube are cheated (some are obiously). These won't help either because they don't work in a real run. So I started practising like a fucking deranged ninja hermit chicken.

STAGE 1:
Stage 1 is pretty easy. I always do a little chain from the first enemies in order to have a hyper for the boss. The Boss is not that simple with SHOTIA. The first pattern can be dangerous so you always have to prepare to stop lasering in order to maneuver quickly away, even more so on the next pattern that crosses itself. It's quite diffficult and sometimes a stray bullet just hits you. That's what I have the hyper for. You can't compare the first boss of DOJ WL with like the 1st boss of ESPGaluda or Futari Original. DOJ is that hard, yes.

STAGE 2:
With SHOTIA everything is simple up to the fucking helicopter midboss. Your laser is so weak, that you won't be able to destroy it before the last dangerous pattern. I had to develop a strategy to always have a hyper for this guy because otherwise you will die here with SHOTIA. There is no other way. Then there is the easy section until the boss. The boss is fucking unbelievable. The blue little turds cross each other and there are constellations you can not dodge and will certainly die. They changed this boss' pattern in Black Label. In White Label this boss is serious shit and takes much more damage. SHOTIA's laser is not good enough and you will have to bomb sooner or later in the first phase. I developed a strategy where I don't take the bomb before the boss and let it float across the screen. Then I would hyper the first dangerous situation doing a little bit more damage. This makes the boss go so fast that you will need to bomb. I always bombed restocking with the bomb that floats around. Then comes phase 2. Phase 2 will once more show you how weak SHOTIAs laser in White Label is. You will have to bomb after dodging the first shots. Otherwise you will definitely die. Don't even try it. It's not worth the risk. The second boss is very hard in Whitle Label imo.

STAGE 3:
Here is where you truly begin to feel the differences between WL and BL. With Shotia shit just won't die fast enough so you really can stop using the laser in the first half. You have to keep your ship in the upper half of the screen and point blank the shit out of everything. For that perfect memorization is necessary because the bullets will start flying faster. You will reach the midboss where I developed a complicated tactic by using a hyper to avoid using a bomb. It's totally senseless to risk anything here so it's better to use a bomb than to die. Of course that doesn't mean that you will not die like a million times or more at this boss. When my hyper tactic fails I bomb immediately. This guy is too dangerous. After that comes the 2nd half where difficulty will ramp up again. Perfect memorization and timing are required here. If you don't destroy the enemies fast enough you will die. If you destroy enemies too fast you will die. It's very hard. The boss always requires 2 or 3 bombs with SHOTIA. The first phase is very problematic with the slow speed of SHOTIA but after some weeks i got the hang of it and was able to get through only using one or zero bombs. The second phase is pretty simple with SHOTIA : You will have to bomb twice or you will die. There is no interpretation at this point with SHOTIA. I tried a thousdan times. Your laser is too weak so 1 bomb won't do it and the pattern is flat outright ridicilous so don't bother with it. In Black Label this complete pattern is redisigned and made a LOT easier.

STAGE 4:
Rank will kick you in the nuts here. If you watched a Black Label 1CC Stage 4 is a walk in the park compared to White Label Stage 4. Bullets will come freaking fast and even their numbers will increase. Don't even start lasering once. Again: Upper Half screen and keep that autofire button pressed. I have developed a strategy for the first part where I don't have to bomb until the wagons with the tanks. Don't hesitate to bomb though if you fuck up. The wagons are actually somehow easier with SHOTIA because you can simply stay under them with your wide spread shot and destroy them before they get really dangerous. The rank will be very high at that point and it's not possible to get through like in Black Label. A bomb will be necessary then. After that comes the cannon with the 1up. Needless to say you absolutely have to get this without dying. I always use a bomb or a hyper. After that comes the section with the turrets on rails. I pointblank them on the shortest distance possible. This is the only way for me to not get completely overwhelmed by their screen filling bullets. It's hard but manageable. I have never seen that approach anywhere but it works pretty good with SHOTIA. The boss is actually doable. With good practise you can kill him by using only 2 or 3 bombs.

STAGE 5:
Absolute Hell. I don't even laser anything here except the 2 midbosses and the big station that shoots a ton of big blue bullets. I only use hypers for absolute pinch situations and bomb whenever necessary (the hive ). In spite of being pushed to the wall like a rat I keep relentlessly attacking by going up with my ship and point blank enemies and popcorn before they can fill up the whole screen. Then comes the boss: About 10 bombs and he is smoked whatever he may do.


Let me get this straight: I think White Label is an imbalanced unfair piece of shit game with SHOTIA. SHOTIA flat out sucks. White Label should only be played with EXY. The other options are worthless and crappy. The more you play it the more you realize how white label was balanced around EXY. The patterns, the damage the bosses take and the whole flow of the game. Even with EXY it's incredibly difficult from the stage 2 boss on and keeps punching you in the face. I still can't imagine how one could even be capable of looping this bastard. Some say DOJ sports the men from the boys but what does DOJ WL then? Maybe the only good thing about WL is that it lead to a better game, Black Label.

Now for some screens of my setup:

http://imgur.com/YkHng9P,5CvO8mD,lRdIqP ... kk,dz0pbFA



It's finally done! It has been a long journey full of torture, learning, crying, rage, fun and i finally accomplished it. I 1CC'ed the first shmup i bought. I hope that this writeup can motivate some other shmuppers to not give up and give it their best! If I can do it you can do it too! It's too bad the PS2 has not a good option to record games but if anyone wants to see something i can record it with my new HD CAM. I also want to thank all the cool guys at shmups farm supporting each other.

Keep blowin' shit up fellow shmuppers!



TL;DR : I 1CC'ed DOJ WL with B-S, praise me a little bit

[Special World]

Haha, great writeup and congrats on your 1CC. I'm terrible at DOJ, and I'm pretty impressed that you seemingly took the hardest route possible to go about it.

STAGE 5:
Absolute Hell.

[O. Van Bruce]

Epic story bro. Seriously, I felt you here inside my heart.

Tomorrow I'll start MAME and do a white label run with SHOTIA.

[Erppo]

Congrats, it's certainly not easy!

However, I don't mean to belittle your achievment, but I think you're exaggerating the differences between WL and BL. Most of the differences only exist in the second loop, the 1-2 boss for example is identical in both. The 1-3 boss final pattern is changed in BL, but into a harder version. I also don't think Shotia's power really differs, but I'm not really sure of this since I have used her so little. I'm also curious which Youtube replays you consider cheated.

I tried the game with B-S a bit to see how it is. Here's a Shmupmame 2.2 input that gets to 2-1. I don't feel it's that much different from BL even with this ship, though just as in BL, some parts really are pretty hard with it. I also have no idea how to chain anything with the ship.

[n0rtygames]

However, I don't mean to belittle your achievment, but I think you're exaggerating the differences between WL and BL. Most of the differences only exist in the second loop

There's plenty of stuff in the first loop.. hell, the first *stage* that makes Black Label feel vastly different.

Faster hyper gain, less strict chaining - makes a difference. For people who can't chain for shit (like me) the differences are very noticable. If you're playing the game at a "higher level" - they may seem trivial... but they do make a big difference for us humble newbies. I mean, the fact that the stage 1 boss's berserk pattern is a lot more managable when you blow off its side guns pretty much means "free hyper" to me. So, if I'm playing for survival - being able to build up a large number of hypers for specific moments where I can score even slightly well to get me close to an extend -- this is a good thing.

So yeah, it probably depends on your skill level and experience just how 'major' those changes are.

But more importantly - well done. A DOJ clear is nothing to be sniffed at