Getting a good capture card

[GregI]

Been talking to a member here on another forum (blizzz) so I decided to sign up and get some opinions. I currently have the Aver H727 capture card but it has issues (blurred component capture and average composite capture) that I want to look elsewhere for a capture card.

My main goal is to find a capture card that can do composite, s-video and component input (If it has HDMI a bonus but not needed). This pretty much means it should be able to support retro consoles (240p), 480i, 576i, 480p and 720p which can represent these inputs faithfully. It must also have drivers which can work with Virtualdub, streaming programs and thus lossless capture.

[fagin]

What problem do you get with blur? I use component and don't get any such issues with the 360 for instance.

[GregI]

blizzz actually posted good comparisons on another forum.

Here is the captured component from a PSP using Aver:



Here is what the game should look like from a digital screen cap using custom firmware.

[Fudoh]

Get either the Micomsoft capture card or get a XRGB-Mini, a DVDO processor for unlocking the output frequency and any HDMI capture card of your choice.

Anything else you don't even have to try, if you need pixelperfect capture of low-res sources. I happen to have a new Micomsoft SC-500N1 for sale if you're interested.

[GregI]

Funnily enough blizzz linked me to your site about the card to. It's a lot of money so I would like some information.

Will I need to purchase an XSYNC-1 for component capture? Am I also under the impression that I will need to handle audio via line in myself?

Am I restricted to Video keeper or can I use other software like Virtualdub?

I also found this video interesting on the SC-500N1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MA9VIBeHvA

"Slightly too high gamma/brightness". Is this just a one off for this particular game?

[Fudoh]

I haven't used the Micomsoft card myself (I use a Blackmagic for capturing), but check out our thread here on the board: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... it=capture . Don't know if you're limited to video keeper, but I don't think so. If you create your own video path with GraphEdit you're basically able to every capture hardware with every program.

Low-res capture looks amazingly good. You ONLY need the XSync-1 (or any other, even self made $10 sync stripper/seperator) for 15khz RGBs capture. Component (all resolutions) can be be captured right away out of the box.

Gamma/Brightness: arcade boards have widely ranging output video levels, that's why there are differences. If you capture from consumer systems, you have standard levels and everything will be fine. Also Gamma/Brightness can easily be adjusted with an AVISynth script.

[blizzz]

or get a XRGB-Mini, a DVDO processor for unlocking the output frequency and any HDMI capture card of your choice.

I remember that someone told me that the XRGB-Mini produces a similarly smoothed picture with PSP component input and that there was a general chroma shift bug in 480p. This and the fact that you couldn't set the scanline intensity with older firmwares were my only reasons not to buy the Framemeister.

Fudoh, could you make a screenshot of a PSP game, preferably one that uses small text, with the Component > XRGB-Mini > HDMI > Blackmagic route? Unscaled 480p and scaled to 720p would be interesting. I don't expect pixel perfect quality, but something near Stefan_L's results with the SC-500N1 I would be nice.

[Fudoh]

I remember that someone told me that the XRGB-Mini produces a similarly smoothed picture with PSP component input

here's a PSP Screenshot I posted some months back: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 32#p756632

and that there was a general chroma shift bug in 480p.

no, the chroma shift is an output related problem with some TVs. Technically not a Mini problem and no problem at all if you use the Mini as a capture interface.

Fudoh, could you make a screenshot of a PSP game, preferably one that uses small text

Not this week, maybe next week. I'm just changing processors and a DVDO is not in reach for my capture setup. I also can't capture 480p (my BMD doesn't do it).

[GregI]

I've seriously been debating with myself about this. Pros and cons of getting this.

Pros:

Potential to explore quality Dreamcast capturing
RGB would be cool to explore especially if I went and got more consoles
Good component capture as it should be

Cons:

Need to handle audio myself
Price
No composite (not an issue if I can RGB mod any retro consoles I will get)

Can you hold off on selling for a few days? I think I can manage a purchase but need to see if I really need it. I guess it would be good for the future.

Is there anything else close to the SC-500N1 for capturing?

[Fudoh]

Is there anything else close to the SC-500N1 for capturing?

only the XRGB-Mini paired with a HDMI capture card, but you would have to capture in HD then, while the Micomsoft card can directly capture in the native resolutions.

I don't find the Micomsoft card to be very expensive, if you compare it to a PMS Sweetspot (which is 150 british pounds refurbished). The PMS is about the only other card which can capture 15khz RGB, but the quality is nowhere near the Micomsoft card.

[GregI]

Lol, the XRGB-Mini is more expensive than the card itself.

I talked to my mum and worked out I'll pay her back with the cash I get later from my job. I just need to make sure this is worth the investment.

Quick question actually that is somewhat related. blizzz told me the HDMI on the Aver is limited RGB so does this mean any captures from say a XRGB-Mini would not look as good when captured with the Aver if I used say a Intensity Pro with HDMI which is full range (I think)?

[Fudoh]

Doesn't really matter. RGB is more compatible since it's required by all HDMI machines to get DVI-D compatibility. RGB also has 4:4:4 color resolution, while YCbCr has only 4:2:2 (or 4:2:0). It doesn't make a huge difference if your end format is 4:2:0 anyway, but for editing 4:4:4 can be of some advantage.

[blizzz]

Fudoh, could you make a screenshot of a PSP game, preferably one that uses small text

Not this week, maybe next week. I'm just changing processors and a DVDO is not in reach for my capture setup.

What exactly would the DVDO do? Is it needed if I only want to use consumer RGB / component consoles?

[Fudoh]

most older video game systems don't exactly output NTSC specs, but are slightly off (e.g. 59.7 Hz instead of 59.94). The BMD can't capture this, but only 100% exact NTSC timings. The DVDO processors can take any of those inputs and unlock the output refresh rate from the input, so you get 59.94Hz no matter what.

The Mini has a V-Sync on/off function, but it doesn't really work (yet?).

[BuckoA51]

Doesn't this mean that the captured video will have stuttery scrolling, whereas it could be perfectly smooth on the Micomsoft capture setup?

[blizzz]

I always assumed that capture devices had no problem with the ~0.3% deviation in frequency. I know that the real output framerate of a SNES is ~60.0988 fps, which would mean that 1 frame gets dropped every 6 seconds. 59.7 fps would result in 1 duplicated frame every 4 seconds. VirtualDub allows you to record in the right framerate, but I have no idea if the Aver H727 supports that for HDMI inputs.

[Fudoh]

I always assumed that capture devices had no problem with the ~0.3% deviation in frequency

really depends on the device. I used the Sweetspot and the Holo3Dgraph before the BMD and both had no problems whatsoever capturing anything you threw at them. The BMDs on the other hand are really geared towards broadcast use.

As blizz also stated it's not really a problem and with Youtube re-converting everything to 29.97Hz anyway, it doesn't matter.

@ BuckoA51: with the Micomsoft card the recording is perfectly smooth, but remember that you can't play it back this way, unless you're using a CRT and a v-locked output (which I can't imaging exists). You could say that the hickups are hardcoded with a BMD recording, but done in software during playback with a Micomsoft recording.

[BuckoA51]

Ah yes of course what could play it back without the frame-rate conversion... nothing on the PC or youtube etc for sure.

[Fudoh]

you could speed it up / slow it down to 59.94Hz during encoding. Not too hard....

[GregI]

I have been looking around and found a card. Composite, S-Video, Component, HDMI

Timeleak HD70A aka Dorikyapu DC-HA1 (I think) - http://fpsunknown.com/archives/5607

It can capture directly from PS3 HDMI with no fiddling.... it seems

Roughly translated comment,

"You mean (copy guard) HDCP?
It has been tailored for not be able to view the video If you do not cancel the HDCP, if you use a capture board without HDCP release function must be sandwiched between the switcher.
However, Dorikyapu release is compatible with HDCP, there is no need to use a switcher, HDMI connection has become possible to direct."

Also blizzz, they used same game you tried on PSP: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... cNZ7iWGIcg

[blizzz]

Also blizzz, they used same game you tried on PSP: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... cNZ7iWGIcg

Looks a lot worse to me than on the H727. The SC-500N1 is on a whole different level.

[blizzz]

Comparison between H727 (PSP Go, official component cable to H727) and SC500-N1 (screenshot by Stefan_L).
I think it's quite obvious which one looks better.

[Fudoh]

Looks nice and probably as good as it ever gets. The screenshot comparison on top of the thread is a bit unfair, since the output of the PSP just isn't great (analogue, window boxed 480p with low chroma resolution).

[blizzz]

First screenshot I took with the SC-500N1:


Same game captured with AVerMedia H727:


Here is what the game should look like from a digital screen cap using custom firmware.


Picture quality with the SC-500N1 is great, it even improved the stats of the character by 100%! Something went wrong with the cropping (1px is missing at the bottom) but I think that was my mistake.

Edit: Yup, was my fault. I used the same cropping values from the H727 which are off by 1px.