Playing for score sucks

[Teufel_in_Blau]

Enjoy:

http://pastebin.com/KvBTWyCz

I've been reading zinger's thread on Shmups and I am really losing what last few shreds of respect I had for anyone involved with videogames. Even Rando disappointed me, and he's by no means a loser shut-in fuckface. But he is autistic to a degree, and there's no denying this any more. Recap can't get that videogames did not peak with Super Mario World, and I've got a huge backlog of pages linking to this site even the best of which are basically dumb and worthless. You really do deserve Tim Rogers and Leigh Alexander and Yahtzee and Jim Sterling and the artfags and the stick-wiggling and mouse-clicking pseudo-athlete poser aspies. This entire culture, after all, came from inside of you. Because it certainly had nothing to do with me! None of this shit existed when I was growing up. Hell, none of this shit existed a mere 10 years ago! It's insane how quickly videogames turned from a garden of Eden to a fucking weed-infested swamp. But it's the same with Twitter and the rest of them. The internet is to blame for a great amount of this. It's not that aspies did not exist while I was growing up, it's just that, due to the lack of internet, THEY DID NOT GET TO COMMUNICATE THEIR EXISTENCE. So we simply never heard anything of them (because they never leave their rooms, you understand). It's exactly the same with Twitter. You think the incomprehensible idiocy on display there did not exist, for example, in the Middle Ages? You think the peasants back then discussed anything more important than what you see on Twitter every day? It's just that the kings and the noblemen lived in their mansions, and never EVER came in contact with the peasants, except when the latter were serving their dinner or whatever, and they knew very well to keep their mouths shut because they knew what happened to those who didn't.

The aspies are even beginning to make me feel disgusted with the games themselves. Just think about it for a moment. Imagine there is a restaurant that serves some of the best food in town, with only a little snag: all the customers are lepers. Wouldn't you begin to feel disgusted about even the food after a while, merely by association? (by associating the restaurant with leprosy). Basically I've just realized that everyone who buys and plays these games besides me is a fuckfaced autistic loser shut-in. And yeah, Recap also thinks scoring sucks, but he also thinks that philosophy and women and any artform besides Japanese 2D games, and the entire world outside his bedroom sucks, so his understanding of this one single point is not exactly a consolation. Isn't there A SINGLE COMPLETE HUMAN BEING among you? Is the entire fucking world full of fucking cripples?

And then I've got a bunch of casual kids nodding their heads and mindlessly repeating "icycalm is right", while obviously having no feel at all, no connection at all with the culture and with all the experiences and feelings I am relating. These kids ultimately depress me just as much as the aspies! When even someone as intelligent as Josh can be full of shit sometimes (see "I need a mouse and keyboard to enjoy an FPS because I am cool like that"), it is perhaps time to realize that I am basically talking to the wind. Meanwhile, everyone outside my window thinks that Francois Hollande beating Nicholas Sarkozy by a couple of fucking percentage points on some popularity poll is A GREAT VICTORY BROUGHT FORTH BY DESTINY, and that some squares or paint splotches on a canvas are worth 30 million dollars and videogames are for kids. I really am the last man.

[AntiFritz]

What the fuck am I reading...

[Gus]

Aspie master race

[100BilWarrior]

Continued from the same thread Teufel_in_Blau linked:

Back on topic, and I'll give you a little taste of the game guides essay.

Practically everyone who plays for score regularly reads strategy guides. In fact most people read them before they've even played the game. What does that say about these games, and the people who play them?

It says that discovering these mechanics is not fun. It says that THEY CAN'T BE ARSED TO DISCOVER THEM.

But the designers have put these mechanics, tricks, etc. into the game for the player to discover them. Not for him to go on an online message board and get them from others who've discovered them.

So if the players themselves are PRACTICALLY TELLING US that discovering these mechanics is not fun, why on earth are they so obsessed with getting them from others?

QED.

Or do you still seriously need me to answer this?

And of course, in order for these guides to exist, it means someone at some point wrote them. And in order to write these guides there must, of course, be at least one person per game who actually DISCOVERED these mechanics on his own. So who is that person then?

Simple.

The most autistic aspie.

Take your pick:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewforum.php?f=5

In short, a mechanic's purpose is to DRAW YOU DEEPER INTO THE GAME'S WORLD. If instead it SENDS YOU OUTSIDE OF IT, it is a BAD MECHANIC. End of story.

And look at the complete dominance of Ketsui here so far:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41399

Who told them that Ketsui's scoring system was the best (at least among Cave's shooters at the time)?

I did. And they are even using my exact reasoning.

And in the other thread they are going off on me for being a "bad player who knows nothing".

[Skykid]

That man has the most chronic case of verbal diarrhoea I have ever encountered.

[Hagane]

Practically everyone who plays for score regularly reads strategy guides. In fact most people read them before they've even played the game. What does that say about these games, and the people who play them?

It says that discovering these mechanics is not fun. It says that THEY CAN'T BE ARSED TO DISCOVER THEM.

So, for example, painters and musicians don't have fun painting or playing an instrument unless they discover drawing and music theory by themselves. Scientists aren't allowed to read on previous discoveries if they want to be true superhumans worthy of Icy. I'm also sure he hasn't read and based his drivel on stuff he read from Nietzche or Wittgenstein.

In short, in order to not be an aspie, one has to fucking seclude himself from the rest of the world and rediscover all mankind has done since it appeared on earth. OOOOOK.

[100BilWarrior]

He explains this in the essay, when he contrasts a real sport with a videogame. Learning all the techniques to swim faster is good, because in swimming the pleasure comes from the actual swimming, but learning all the stick-wiggling techniques in Ketsui from others is bad, because the pleasure in Ketsui does not come from the stick-wiggling but from the aesthetics (just turn your screen off and wiggle the stick and you'll see).

You guys should really make an effort to actually read the essay. At any rate I've started the picture-book with a friend, so maybe that will help.

[power UP]

So, for example, painters and musicians don't have fun painting or playing an instrument unless they discover drawing and music theory by themselves.
In short, in order to not be an aspie, one has to fucking seclude himself from the rest of the world and rediscover all mankind has done since it appeared on earth. OOOOOK.

It says that discovering these mechanics is not fun. It says that THEY CAN'T BE ARSED TO DISCOVER THEM.

That is all he is saying, read it carefully. It is an obstacle in the game but you have to take shortcuts outside of the game to overcome them, and then all the fun you get left is playing the game "by the book" like an aspie. By comparing strategy guides for games to sheet music you made the point perfectly yourself.

[Obscura]

Back on topic, and I'll give you a little taste of the game guides essay.

Practically everyone who plays for score regularly reads strategy guides. In fact most people read them before they've even played the game. What does that say about these games, and the people who play them?

It says that discovering these mechanics is not fun. It says that THEY CAN'T BE ARSED TO DISCOVER THEM.

But the designers have put these mechanics, tricks, etc. into the game for the player to discover them. Not for him to go on an online message board and get them from others who've discovered them.

So if the players themselves are PRACTICALLY TELLING US that discovering these mechanics is not fun, why on earth are they so obsessed with getting them from others?

QED.

Or do you still seriously need me to answer this?

Meanwhile, in another article...

And there is yet another aspect of the arcades that is relevant here, and that is completely lost on those who have never experienced it. An arcade is a highly social environment; those of its strengths which are not due to the pay-per-play business model stem from this fact.

If getting past a certain stage in some game or figuring out a scoring mechanic is giving you too much trouble -- in other words, if you get stuck at some point -- all you have to do is hang back for a while, and before long someone will come by and do it all right in front of you. He'll show you how to best use your weapons, which power-ups to pick up, where on screen to place yourself at the crucial moments, how to avoid the bosses' attack patterns and when to launch your counter-attack: dude, he will show you everything. And you can even ask questions when he's done!

Remember when I said in the beginning that an arcade has this quality of turning whiny kids into ninjas? This is what I meant.

So, which is it?

He explains this in the essay, when he contrasts a real sport with a videogame. Learning all the techniques to swim faster is good, because in swimming the pleasure comes from the actual swimming, but learning all the stick-wiggling techniques in Ketsui from others is bad, because the pleasure in Ketsui does not come from the stick-wiggling but from the aesthetics (just turn your screen off and wiggle the stick and you'll see).

This is so stupid, I don't even know where to begin.

I guess I'll start with "since Mushihime-Sama has better graphics and sound than Ketsui, it must be a better game, right? And since Limbo has better graphics than either of those, it must be better than either of them, correct?"

[Hagane]

Ok, so the pleasure from Ketsui does not come from the stick wiggling (ie. the interaction with the things you see on screen). Using your example, just watch Ketsui's attract mode, without any controller.

You then are not playing, you are watching a movie. Maybe games are not for you.

[100BilWarrior]

The problem with you guys is that it has to be either ONE or the OTHER. You can't seem to grasp that it is the SYNTHESIS which produces the high result. Half of the aspies think it's about the aesthetics, and drool over the cutscenes in Metal Gear Solid, and the other half over the mechanics, and spend years mastering stick-wiggling strategies so asinine that you yourselves can't be bothered to discover them.

icy explains all this in the "Narrative Delusions" essay (the last essay in the book). But you can't even understand the scoring one, so there's no point in scanning that.

[Obscura]

The problem with you guys is that it has to be either ONE or the OTHER. You can't seem to grasp that it is the SYNTHESIS which produces the high result. Half of the aspies think it's about the aesthetics, and drool over the cutscenes in Metal Gear Solid, and the other half over the mechanics, and spend years mastering stick-wiggling strategies so asinine that you yourselves can't be bothered to discover them.

icy explains all this in the "Narrative Delusions" essay (the last essay in the book). But you can't even understand the scoring one, so there's no point in scanning that.

Your previous post is the one that's actually guilty of this, since it claims that all of the pleasure of Ketsui comes from the aesthetics.

I see no one in this thread claiming that mechanics and aesthetic elements don't work together holistically. Well, except for your previous post.

[BIL]

icycontradiction

Incredible. No longer content to merely lodge his head up his ass, icy is starting to devour his own ass like some deranged ouroboros. And all because some lousy untermenschen mocked him for his bad scores. Why can't he just smash their faces like a real man?

[Hagane]

100BilWarrior: You say that learning the "stick wiggling techniques" is bad, so you seem to be on one half of those aspies. You also seem to be unaware that learning stuff and then executing what you learned (and then adding your own touch as you discover new things to adapt to your skill level) can be very fun. And I don't know where you get we hate on the "aesthetics" of games, since playing a shooter without them would be quite difficult, just like trying to swim without a pool or water.

But since you and Icy (if you are indeed different persons) aren't really players, I don't expect you to understand this.

[100BilWarrior]

Your previous post is the one that's actually guilty of this, since it claims that all of the pleasure of Ketsui comes from the aesthetics.

And it does, since if you switch off the screen, etc.

It's hard to explain, I guess. But the entire sports/videogames analogy that icy analyzes over several pages made it clear to me. "The purpose of the mechanics is to DELIVER the aesthetics." You guys are mastering the mechanics FOR THE MECHANICS' SAKE, and DESTROYING the aesthetics with your retarded credit-feeding-to-improve-quicker/superplay-watching/strategy-exchanging, etc. shenanigans.

I might as well stop here because all I am doing is copy-pasting from the essay and it's not working. So I'll shut up and simply post the pictures when they are done.

[Teufel_in_Blau]

Just be aware system11 likes to ban people who are uploading copyrighted material to other sites...

[Hagane]

You wouldn't be able to play anything without the "stick wiggling" either you moron.

[Obscura]

Your previous post is the one that's actually guilty of this, since it claims that all of the pleasure of Ketsui comes from the aesthetics.

And it does, since if you switch off the screen, etc.

It's hard to explain, I guess. But the entire sports/videogames analogy that icy analyzes over several pages made it clear to me. "The purpose of the mechanics is to DELIVER the aesthetics." You guys are mastering the mechanics FOR THE MECHANICS' SAKE, and DESTROYING the aesthetics with your retarded credit-feeding-to-improve-quicker/superplay-watching/strategy-exchanging, etc. shenanigans.

I might as well stop here because all I am doing is copy-pasting from the essay and it's not working. So I'll shut up and simply post the pictures when they are done.

Ok, so watch a run of Ketsui that features no boss-milking, and doesn't use any of the more "out-there" score tricks, like empty-lock.

Same thing as playing the game?

Of course not.

[100BilWarrior]

I'll say this though. It's really funny to see all these 2012 and 2011 accounts calling a bad player the best videogame theorist and critic in the world, who has moreover had a website since two thousand fucking five with more insight into games per page than can be found in this entire godforsaken forum. All you 19-year-olds with your hug pillows and your cave boxes who were basically BRED INTO AUTISM from the get-go are trying to throw mud this guy's way because he's trying to help you to become healthier, stronger human beings and more appreciative art lovers. It's really comico-tragic.

[NzzpNzzp]

Man, I hope nobody ever shows this guy a speedrun.

[BIL]

You should read the essay, he hates them too. Untermensch aspie game playing habits.

edit:

But since you and Icy (if you are indeed different persons) aren't really players, I don't expect you to understand this.

All that need be said. Also works on IGN reviewers.

[NzzpNzzp]

Oh, right.
He sure doesn't like people being good at games, huh?

[Zeether]

100BilWarrior is Icycalm

[Gus]

Back on topic, and I'll give you a little taste of the game guides essay.

Practically everyone who plays for score regularly reads strategy guides. In fact most people read them before they've even played the game. What does that say about these games, and the people who play them?

It says that discovering these mechanics is not fun. It says that THEY CAN'T BE ARSED TO DISCOVER THEM.

But the designers have put these mechanics, tricks, etc. into the game for the player to discover them. Not for him to go on an online message board and get them from others who've discovered them.

So if the players themselves are PRACTICALLY TELLING US that discovering these mechanics is not fun, why on earth are they so obsessed with getting them from others?

QED.

Or do you still seriously need me to answer this?

Meanwhile, in another article...

And there is yet another aspect of the arcades that is relevant here, and that is completely lost on those who have never experienced it. An arcade is a highly social environment; those of its strengths which are not due to the pay-per-play business model stem from this fact.

If getting past a certain stage in some game or figuring out a scoring mechanic is giving you too much trouble -- in other words, if you get stuck at some point -- all you have to do is hang back for a while, and before long someone will come by and do it all right in front of you. He'll show you how to best use your weapons, which power-ups to pick up, where on screen to place yourself at the crucial moments, how to avoid the bosses' attack patterns and when to launch your counter-attack: dude, he will show you everything. And you can even ask questions when he's done!

Remember when I said in the beginning that an arcade has this quality of turning whiny kids into ninjas? This is what I meant.

So, which is it?

I like this one, from the Espgaluda review

And that's more or less how the system works. Now, it is quite possible to 1CC the game without going into Kakusei mode at all, just by using the shot and guard barrier buttons. There are two very compelling reasons not to do this, however. The first one is obvious: life is easier in Kakusei, since enemies and bullets are slowed down. The second reason is that your score will suck if you don't keep collecting Gold Ingots.

The system might seem complex at first, and, well, it is, but it allows for great flexibility. You can milk the Kakusei mode to make the game easier; you can hone your technique to maximize the Gold Ingots (and therefore, your score); or you can do what I do and play the whole game in Kakusei Overmode--impossibly difficult but also very exciting. Regardless, going for a high score is a lot of fun and extremely rewarding. It requires much practice, very good timing, and also some memorization, because you need to know when each enemy is about to die.

[power UP]

calling a bad player the best videogame theorist and critic in the world

You mean it the other way round I assume?

[Udderdude]

100 billion is a shitty score. >_>

[100BilWarrior]

Gus, this may be news to you, but despite the fact that you seem to be unable to learn, other people can. And the smarter the person, the more he learns and figures out as time goes by.

It is precisely because icy was playing for score in 2005 that he can debunk the whole business in 2012. And it is precisely because you got an account on Shmups.com in 2011 that you understand jack shit.

[Hagane]

I'll say this though. It's really funny to see all these 2012 and 2011 accounts calling a bad player the best videogame theorist and critic in the world, who has moreover had a website since two thousand fucking five with more insight into games per page than can be found in this entire godforsaken forum. All you 19-year-olds with your hug pillows and your cave boxes who were basically BRED INTO AUTISM from the get-go are trying to throw mud this guy's way because he's trying to help you to become healthier, stronger human beings and more appreciative art lovers. It's really comico-tragic.

He had so much good insight he had to steal reviews from "aspies" because his own were embarrassingly bad.

The Übermensch play games by watching attract modes and randomly mashing buttons.

[Zeether]

Gus, this may be news to you, but despite the fact that you seem to be unable to learn, other people can. And the smarter the person, the more he learns and figures out as time goes by.

It is precisely because icy was playing for score in 2005 that he can debunk the whole business in 2012. And it is precisely because you got an account on Shmups.com in 2011 that you understand jack shit.

stop talking about yourself icy

[Randorama]

Even Rando disappointed me, and he's by no means a loser shut-in fuckface. But he is autistic to a degree, and there's no denying this any more.

As someone who is (also) qualified to do scientific research on autism, a desire to get immersed into a game world and ignore the "outside world", score or not, places an individual closer to autism, or the "extreme male brain", to use Baron-Cohen's term.

So do extremely gruesome physical challenges carried over an individual basis. Say, climbing mountains, surfing 20 meters waves, hunting boars by oneself. I did first and third.

In any of these tasks one can be obssessed by numbers, and say: "I climbed more meters than anyone, surfed higher waves than anyone", and so on, so forth. That would obliterate the basic intuition that one should enjoy the activity auch fur sich, rather than obsessing about a number and its relation to other numbers about other people.

I am somehow convinced that I agree with Icycalm's point to a strong extent, but I don't think that "playing for score" stops at videogames. I can't remember ever playing, say, Rugby matches without keeping track of points.

Anyone who focuses on getting better results at something, in a zealous way, score a decent bit on the "extreme male" scale.

Or, to use very imprecise, vastly oversimplifying terms: we're all autistic, like it or not.