How would you feel about PC releases of Cave games?

[Cagar]

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[gray117]

Bit late in the thread, but...
... yes of course I'd be interested in any port and especially a pc port since it [potentially] offers more flexibility than any other.

However - with all respect - what do you think you're doing? Valve have nothing to do with it, it's up to cave to approach them... And for their part cave probably have a range of metrics to detail number of potential fans and customers, as well as means of tracking their brand publicity.

It's charming to think that you can change things, but it's not an oversight on cave's part - They've always been reluctant to port to pc. Quite why is a mystery; it is probably more a lack of developer interest than any strategic ploy; despite some changes, the arcade division still appears to be quite a personal affair within cave ...

Aside from this I do wonder whether cave professionally consider emulation unacceptable as opposed to a constructed port and if the [differences in] performance of such a port could be said to be unacceptable... aside from the potentially unsustainable development time, not only as a one time investment but also priority for staff time... e.g. with only so many resources do you prioritize new product, then ios, then console, then pc? ... at which point should you stop retreading old product [which arguably has already had it's day] and instead concentrate on that first priority - new product?

Certainly a shame imho, and I hope they some day get round to this, but it's not something they haven't thought of...

[trap15]

Aside from this I do wonder whether cave professionally consider emulation unacceptable as opposed to a constructed port and if the [differences in] performance of such a port could be said to be unacceptable...

Guwange on 360 is an emulator. Though I'm not quite sure how they did 360 arrange.

[Giest118]

Guwange on 360 is an emulator. Though I'm not quite sure how they did 360 arrange.

Maybe they developed the 360 Arrange on something akin to the original hardware, added extra inputs to it for the Arrange-specific mechanics, and then emulated that.

[trap15]

Yes, that was pretty much my idea.

[gray117]

Aside from this I do wonder whether cave professionally consider emulation unacceptable as opposed to a constructed port and if the [differences in] performance of such a port could be said to be unacceptable...

Guwange on 360 is an emulator. Though I'm not quite sure how they did 360 arrange.

well there's that then, but hardware I was getting at hardware differences causing differences in performance in the same product [as opposed to differences between pcb and emulation/port].

However again I think it's more of a personal prefrence thing; similar to how you don't see snk putting out their games on steam...

[CHI]

I soo wanted to vote for: No, Cave games should be released ONLY on the arcades
Cos of being an old-skool-retro-arcade-player

But i voted for: No, Cave games should be released only on consoles and arcades
Cos of owning half of the CAVE ports on consoles

My 2 pennies...
This is the ONLY reason why arcades are dying fast all around the world, peeps prefer to have ports and sit on their ass for days and not leaving their rooms!
Lucky for some (London, Japan and wherever), we have Casino AND a community of peeps keeping the scene alive

PS: i have not read any of these posts, i'm just replying from the title

[Giest118]

This is the ONLY reason why arcades are dying fast all around the world, peeps prefer to have ports and sit on their ass for days and not leaving their rooms!

A game does not become better just because it's played on an arcade machine.

It does not.

No it doesn't.

It. Does. Not.

It... does... not.

It doesn't.

Doesn't.

Not better.

It isn't.

Are we clear on this point yet?

Having said that, it's not any LESS good because it's on an arcade machine either. You know why? IT'S THE SAME GAME EITHER WAY.

Keeping shmups arcade-exclusive is great if you live in a place where arcades exist, and if those arcades actually have shmups in them. This is not the case everywhere. Therefore, wanting to keep these games arcade exclusive is purist, selfish, and totally arbitrary.

[CHI]

Well it's only 2 pennies, you can take it or leave it...
I'm just stuck in the past HOW I/me/we (to some people) prefer playing it in an arcade... you get the whole experience feel watching people, people watching you, being under pressure, learning new tactics, etc...

Another 2 pennies: there is no perfect port, play the original PCB

[Skykid]

A game does not become better just because it's played on an arcade machine.

It does not.

No it doesn't.

It. Does. Not.

It... does... not.

It doesn't.

Doesn't.

Yes it does.

[emphatic]

Yes it does.

[CHI]

A game does not become better just because it's played on an arcade machine.

There should be a poll/vote for this... mao

[dunpeal2064]

Yes it does.

[Zaarock]

Yeah, playing on arcade machines and in an actual arcade enhances the experience of course.

But as Giest said I'm sure if everyone here had arcades with shmups near them most of us would love to play them there because they are better in the actual arcade.

Wanting releases to be arcade only though is pretty much saying fuck you to everyone who wants to play the games yet don't collect PCBs or live near other shmup players who do. I guess someone could argue everyone should collect PCBs to be real fans of the genre and deserve to play... but lol.

It doesn't really matter if people want less releases though since it makes no sense for the companies not to make ports to sell to more people if they're profitable.

[Skykid]

Wanting releases to be arcade only though is pretty much saying fuck you to everyone who wants to play the games yet don't collect PCBs or live near other shmup players who do.

Everyone deserves to play the games of course, there's no elitist code that would deny someone the opportunity to enjoy them. But Cave games on PC? Isn't that what Mame is for?

Just buy a goddamn console like everyone else and quit fucking whining.

[Icarus]

It doesn't really matter if people want less releases though since it makes no sense for the companies not to make ports to sell to more people if they're profitable.

We've seen PC ports of arcade games before - some have been good, some have been absolutely hopeless, most have been a little iffy in terms of quality and features. And given that everyone on this forum likes to bitch about the tiniest little detail with respect to Cave ports - no scanlines, no 4:3 option, no extended autofire modes, lacklustre training modes, inaccurate slowdown, excess difficulty/no difficulty at all, etc etc etc etc etc ad infinitum - it's a guarantee that if Cave's somewhat hit-and-miss porting team get cracking on PC and the ports turn out to be less than stellar, this forum will devour itself in an orgy of whining and complaints.

So yeah, I'd rather see the games on PCB first, then ported to a system where hardware is standardised for all users, both for equal competitive grounds, and for the fact that I really can't be fucked with the hypocrisy of the majority of users on this forum who pray to the high heavens for a port to PC, then commence bitching when said port is even a little bit off the mark in terms of quality.

One vote for consoles and arcades only.

Therefore, wanting to keep these games arcade exclusive is purist, selfish, and totally arbitrary.

It's also selfish to bombard a niche game developer working off a potentially small budget with messages, begging them to port something that may already be available on other formats to another format they probably have no experience developing for, just to satisfy your own selfish desire to get games 1) cheaply (possibly pirated), and 2) easily (also possibly pirated), because you're too tight to support the developer by buying the ports on the formats they originally appeared on, and/or too lazy to source the games for yourselves.

Take what you're given, be happy with what you have.

[emphatic]

and quit fucking whining.

[trap15]

and quit fucking whining.

Yes it does.

[Cagar]

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[Icarus]

It's not selfish if you know you're working for thousands of gamers, (more if we count possible newcomers to the genre) and working on future of cave in terms of money and income, who knows?

Really? I don't ever recall seeing a "gaming awareness" petition working at all. You can call me elitist (the correct term is "realistic" here) for saying that you should take what you are given in terms of whatever ports are developed; but I'm going to call you delusional for thinking that you - one single person - of all people could possibly make a difference, with regards to swaying Cave's (or any other developer's) opinions on PC gaming. Cave will go to wherever the money and userbase is, and in terms of target audience, there are probably far more "casual" gamers that might be interested in their games on iOS than there ever will be using Steam, Origin, etc.

I really couldn't give a rat's ass if Saidaioujou or whatever is ported to whatever format or not, I'll believe it when I see it. As far as I'm concerned, I have plenty of games to last me until the foreseeable future.

and the mainstream-scores of shmups-forum would be done on PC, which is accurate enough for stuff like that.

Who's making assumptions now? "Accurate enough"? A little optimistic?

You're assuming that a genre, whose basis is score attack on a standardised form of hardware, could ever find a home on a format that has a trillion possible permutations in terms of hardware and software. Just look at Android. Yes, Cave is on there, but they've actively restricted the game to the highest of the high-spec devices - you can sideload the package onto something like a HTC Wildfire or Sony-Ericsson X8, but the game would run horribly in that case due to the really low processing speed and system memory. Unless Cave actively enforce restrictions on PC hardware, you'll see much the same thing for a wide variety of users. Even MAME builds that run fast on one person's computer can frameskip like a bitch on someone else's. PC gamers really are blinkered.

[Giest118]

Yes it does.

Just keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about shelling out thousands of dollars for an identical game to what you would have gotten if you'd spent mere hundreds to get a console to play it on, that can also play other games.

[Cagar]

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[Icarus]

Check these out: *insert links of indie-game success stories with steam here*

They're obviously so successful that you're incapable of finding links to articles about them.
Comparing a bunch of one-hit short-term fade-away wonders with a decently-sized company that requires sustained success is quite funny in hindsight. If Steam is the silver bullet that guarantees a shooting game company success, why aren't we seeing the other game devs like G.Rev and Moss on it? Moss and Alfa System among others have tried the PC route before. Don't think it went very well.

[Nasirosuchus]

You're assuming that a genre, whose basis is score attack on a standardised form of hardware, could ever find a home on a format that has a trillion possible permutations in terms of hardware and software. Just look at Android. Yes, Cave is on there, but they've actively restricted the game to the highest of the high-spec devices - you can sideload the package onto something like a HTC Wildfire or Sony-Ericsson X8, but the game would run horribly in that case due to the really low processing speed and system memory. Unless Cave actively enforce restrictions on PC hardware, you'll see much the same thing for a wide variety of users. Even MAME builds that run fast on one person's computer can frameskip like a bitch on someone else's. PC gamers really are blinkered.

People are taking this 'PC hardware is all different' thing entire too far.

Would every game run perfectly on every computer in the world? No, but it would be a far cry from the skipping, lagging, and crashing maelstrom on earth that you're suggesting here. There's no reason that modern shmups can't be coded to run properly on most PC's that were built in the last 4-5 years. Even though some computers would have trouble, there would still be that many more people who would be able to access the games.

Seriously, comparing smart phones to a PC is absurd. A smart phone will never be capable of doing what a laptop or desktop computer does, and that's why you rarely see anything but the most simplistic pick-up-and-play games like Bejeweled, Temple Run, and Angry birds.

As far as scoring goes, no matter how much of a snob you may be, there's no way that you ignore all of the people in the hi score threads who are using MAME and other emulators.

[Paradigm]

Yes it does.

Just keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about shelling out thousands of dollars for an identical game to what you would have gotten if you'd spent mere hundreds to get a console to play it on, that can also play other games.

Pretty sure he's got the console as well anyway. Playing an arcade game on a cab does enhance the experience and it's not even the slightest bit elitist to say so. Nobody's saying ports/emulation are worthless though, so I'm not quite sure why this seems to bother you, aside from a bit of jealousy of course.

And Cagar, please shut the fuck up, seriously. You're just an ungrateful, whiny little brat. If you want older CAVE games, play on MAME. If you want newer stuff, get a 360. It's that simple.

[trap15]

And Cagar, please shut the fuck up, seriously. You're just an ungrateful, whiny little brat. If you want older CAVE games, play on MAME. If you want newer stuff, get a 360. It's that simple.

+1

[Skykid]

Yes it does.

Just keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about shelling out thousands of dollars for an identical game to what you would have gotten if you'd spent mere hundreds to get a console to play it on, that can also play other games.

I have the console too.

and quit fucking whining.

[AntiFritz]

Yeah, after that I'm pretty sure CAVE wouldn't suddenly give a shit how accurate their ports will be, oh wait etc... Like you just said yourself too, it's obvious assumption that CAVE really cares about accuracy, so I'm not being optimistic, more like "realistic".
If CAVE's going for money and userbase, that's just what Steam would be perfect for. Good publicity & advertising, a platform which everyone who reaches steam most likely has. Appstore is NOTHING against steam in terms of userbase. "Current-top-25-apps"-shit doesn't count.
Check these out: *insert links of indie-game success stories with steam here*

Cave + Steam Sales = lots of money and sales.

If jamestown can make a decent profit (i assume it did), then cave can too.

[Giest118]

I'm not quite sure why this seems to bother you, aside from a bit of jealousy of course.

HAH HAH
It's funny because you're serious.

and quit fucking whining.

Yeah, I'm the one who's whining, when you're the one constantly bitching about these people whose opinions differ from yours.

Also, if the pure arcade version is so much better, why do you even have the console? Why shell out money for an OBVIOUSLY inferior product? How about you go and get some consistency to go with your opinions, please.

[Vyxx]

Also, if the pure arcade version is so much better, why do you even have the console? Why shell out money for an OBVIOUSLY inferior product? How about you go and get some consistency to go with your opinions, please.

Arrange modes, DLC, being able to practice any stage or boss could be part of it.