Is a Tri/Multi sync monitor a must for Mame?

[lettuce]

I am looking at getting a monitor for use with Mame and my retro consoles via Scart, and wanted to know do I really need a Tri-sync monitor or would a 15khz or 15/24khz be adequate? The reason I ask is at the moment I am using a old UK Scart CRT TV along with a version of Mame called GroovyMame, which uses a modified version on the ATI drivers much like the soft15khz drivers so you get the games running at the correct refresh rates and resolution (or as damn close as possible), now the TV seems capable of running all the games I have thrown at it, or though alot need the display altered through the TV service menu so it fits the screen as best as possible.

By their very nature what are Scart TVs capable of, as im sure they are not multisync capable?, if they are say just 15khz capable do I really need a Tri/Multi Sync monitor for Mame and retro consoles?? As I know the snes console did resolutions like 256x224 up to 512x478 which are both 15khz & 24khz resolutions aren't they? But then also the first Xbox did resolutions as high as 640x480 and 800x600 and I'm sure these are 31khz signals?, are TVs multisync compatable if it can display these consoles and the Mame games I have tried??

[fagin]

Normally, a traditional CRT TV will be 15khz only.

You're confusing interlaced with progressive on the resolutions.... retro consoles will be pure 15khz (in the main), but they maybe capable of 31khz - 640(720)x480 progressive and above (xbox and ps2 for instance).

Some CRT TV's are multisync.

What are you trying to achieve... because unless you're using a multitude of PCB's (and a mix, including 15, 24 and 31khz) you should stick with 15khz imo.

If you're going down this route you really need to consider getting a proper arcade cabinet (to connect your consoles and MAME PC up to)...... do it once and do it right imo.

[dieKatze88]

I find that if you stick to the monitor orientation you already have, 15khz is probably enough. You'll miss out on a few of the higher resolution titles, but you need a beast to run those anyway. (My sticking point is Gradius IV)

If you want to run games that have been software rotated, the higher resolution helps. Jackal looks like an Atari 2600 title on my 15khz monitor at the highest progressive scan resolution my system supports. Older vertical titles will work just fine (Just about any monitor can display Space Invaders in either orientation. A fact Taito abused when they made that collection of SI games) but newer ones will look like garbage unless you can provide a bunch of extra vertical lines.

You can display 800x600 interlaced on a 15khz monitor, at like, 50i. Might as well be Power Point, the video signal.

[lettuce]

Normally, a traditional CRT TV will be 15khz only.

You're confusing interlaced with progressive on the resolutions.... retro consoles will be pure 15khz (in the main), but they maybe capable of 31khz - 640(720)x480 progressive and above (xbox and ps2 for instance).

Ok gotcha!, so stuff up to PS1, Saturn would all be 15khz?, PS2 and Xbox 31khz if using progressive?, if not still 15khz?

Some CRT TV's are multisync.

What are you trying to achieve... because unless you're using a multitude of PCB's (and a mix, including 15, 24 and 31khz) you should stick with 15khz imo.

If you're going down this route you really need to consider getting a proper arcade cabinet (to connect your consoles and MAME PC up to)...... do it once and do it right imo.

I wont be using proper PCB's, it will be just GroovyMame, and SNES, Megadrive, PS1 etc. As spaces is a bit tight i was toying with sticking the monitor in a suitable TV casing maybe, or failing that make a case up myself, least that way i could fit the a Sync Strike inside and connect the consoles up that way, place some decent speakers inside also. I dont have the room atm for a nice candy cab, or though if i did come across a shell then id probably be tempted.

Are there many PCBs that were 31khz?, as i know you slapped a multisync monitor in one of your cabs, and just wondered if you had toyed with just getting a single or dual sync monitor and why??

Am i right in saying that a 15khz picture form a 15khz only monitor is superior to that of a 15khz picture from a multisync monitor??

I find that if you stick to the monitor orientation you already have, 15khz is probably enough. You'll miss out on a few of the higher resolution titles, but you need a beast to run those anyway. (My sticking point is Gradius IV).

What are these titles that use 31khz modes?, is gradius IV 15khz?

If you want to run games that have been software rotated, the higher resolution helps. Jackal looks like an Atari 2600 title on my 15khz monitor at the highest progressive scan resolution my system supports. Older vertical titles will work just fine (Just about any monitor can display Space Invaders in either orientation. A fact Taito abused when they made that collection of SI games) but newer ones will look like garbage unless you can provide a bunch of extra vertical lines.

What setup do you have dieKatze88?

You can display 800x600 interlaced on a 15khz monitor, at like, 50i. Might as well be Power Point, the video signal.

What is the max progressive res a 15khz monitor will do?

Thanks for the input guys, it will be food for fought

[shmuppyLove]

I've seen a few cabs with PCs running MAME on a 15kHz monitor, seems to work ok, so I don't think you need a tri-sync.

[fagin]

Best to take it on a console by console basis when saying what can do 31khz.... there are less of them for starters, but your assumption won't be far off. BUT they can all "do" 15khz, regardless of whether they can output 480p as well (so 240p and/or 480i for instance).

So am I right in thinking that your ONLY real reason for buying an arcade monitor is because of the remote geometry board (for use with MAME). If it is, I can certainly understand that requirement.

Plenty of Arcade stuff on 31khz..... but you're talking newer stuff like Naomi and Atomiswave (and more besides). To be fair though, emulation has only just matured in these area's.... and has already said, you'll need a good PC to run this latest emu stuff.

I bought tri-sync monitors to give me the ultimate connection options. In for a penny. In for a pound (or two) - so hence the tri-syncs.

Yes... normally 15khz on a 15khz chassis and monitor combo, can give the better image over say a VGA monitor, converted to 15khz / 31khz (for example). But imo you're splitting hairs and only the anal need apply! Scanlines tend to be a tad thicker on a tri-sync running in 15khz mode - but who gives a shit!

Of course you can always buy a "scan convertor" to convert a 480p to 240p. Hence 15khz would suffice even if you wanted to use a source that only had 480p output.

There is more than one way to skin a cat, but imo if your looking at an arcade monitor - buy once and buy right (for all your needs today, tomorrow and next year!).

There is nothing in MAME that I'm aware of that runs fullspeed that uses 31khz. You'll need to look elsewhere for that shizzle.

Maximum *normal* progressive "mode" for 15khz is what you and I would call 240p.

[lettuce]

Yeah the idea behind me getting an arcade monitor will be 80% for the geometry board, as having to turn the TV off and back on to access the service menu and then filter through all the options to get the one you want to a ball ache!, plus you cannot beat the nice crisp image of a brand new display. I competely understand what your saying about buying the right monitor now and for tomorrow!

Now heres the decision i have, i can get a brand new 27/29" (which is it??) Wei-Ya M3129DF-72 CGA/EGA/VGA monitor for £375, i know that alot are going to spit at the Wei-Ya name but their the only guys still producting CRT based monitors it would seem

Or

Brand new Pentranic 26" CGA (£175) or CGA/EGA (£200) Monitor & Chassis, again Pentranics arent the greatest, but with the way things are i cant really complain and just be happy theres still new monitors about

So its all down to costing!. Do i get an all sing all dancing multi sync that ill only really be using 2 of the modes on, or get the cheaper 15/24 option......hmmmm

PS. is there any truth in that a 26" display looks better than a 29" for these retro games?

[dieKatze88]

Normally, a traditional CRT TV will be 15khz only.

You're confusing interlaced with progressive on the resolutions.... retro consoles will be pure 15khz (in the main), but they maybe capable of 31khz - 640(720)x480 progressive and above (xbox and ps2 for instance).

Ok gotcha!, so stuff up to PS1, Saturn would all be 15khz?, PS2 and Xbox 31khz if using progressive?, if not still 15khz?

Some CRT TV's are multisync.

What are you trying to achieve... because unless you're using a multitude of PCB's (and a mix, including 15, 24 and 31khz) you should stick with 15khz imo.

If you're going down this route you really need to consider getting a proper arcade cabinet (to connect your consoles and MAME PC up to)...... do it once and do it right imo.

I wont be using proper PCB's, it will be just GroovyMame, and SNES, Megadrive, PS1 etc. As spaces is a bit tight i was toying with sticking the monitor in a suitable TV casing maybe, or failing that make a case up myself, least that way i could fit the a Sync Strike inside and connect the consoles up that way, place some decent speakers inside also. I dont have the room atm for a nice candy cab, or though if i did come across a shell then id probably be tempted.

Are there many PCBs that were 31khz?, as i know you slapped a multisync monitor in one of your cabs, and just wondered if you had toyed with just getting a single or dual sync monitor and why??

Am i right in saying that a 15khz picture form a 15khz only monitor is superior to that of a 15khz picture from a multisync monitor??

I find that if you stick to the monitor orientation you already have, 15khz is probably enough. You'll miss out on a few of the higher resolution titles, but you need a beast to run those anyway. (My sticking point is Gradius IV).

What are these titles that use 31khz modes?, is gradius IV 15khz?

If you want to run games that have been software rotated, the higher resolution helps. Jackal looks like an Atari 2600 title on my 15khz monitor at the highest progressive scan resolution my system supports. Older vertical titles will work just fine (Just about any monitor can display Space Invaders in either orientation. A fact Taito abused when they made that collection of SI games) but newer ones will look like garbage unless you can provide a bunch of extra vertical lines.

What setup do you have dieKatze88?

You can display 800x600 interlaced on a 15khz monitor, at like, 50i. Might as well be Power Point, the video signal.

What is the max progressive res a 15khz monitor will do?

Thanks for the input guys, it will be food for fought

Mame box connected to a New Astro City.

I have an MS9, so I don't autoswitch. 25khz requires opening the back of my machine while off. Gradius IV is 25khz.

I think it's about 300 lines.

[fagin]

384 iirc.

[fagin]

Now heres the decision i have, i can get a brand new 27/29" (which is it??) Wei-Ya M3129DF-72 CGA/EGA/VGA monitor for £375, i know that alot are going to spit at the Wei-Ya name but their the only guys still producting CRT based monitors it would seem

Or

Brand new Pentranic 26" CGA (£175) or CGA/EGA (£200) Monitor & Chassis, again Pentranics arent the greatest, but with the way things are i cant really complain and just be happy theres still new monitors about

So its all down to costing!. Do i get an all sing all dancing multi sync that ill only really be using 2 of the modes on, or get the cheaper 15/24 option......hmmmm

PS. is there any truth in that a 26" display looks better than a 29" for these retro games?

The smaller the tube, the better the image can be...... not always though.

What 480p would you want / have to play? If that answer is zero you then know which way to "dive".

How you going to house this as the last thing I would personally want is an open monitor frame / chassis sat there - it would look pig ugly at least!!!

[lettuce]

The smaller the tube, the better the image can be...... not always though.

What 480p would you want / have to play? If that answer is zero you then know which way to "dive".

How you going to house this as the last thing I would personally want is an open monitor frame / chassis sat there - it would look pig ugly at least!!!

Well this is it, as I'm going to be using it for Mame and retro consoles I don't think there's going to be many and I doubt I would ever hook my 360 or PS3 up and there wasn't a great deal of arcade type PS2 games that had a progressive option. As you said the 31khz Mame games that are around aren't that well supported atm.....come to think of it what were so of the better know 31khz pcb's?....was Virtual Fighter 4 31khz?. Due to the nature of the newer types of pcbs will they even be emulated in Mame?

Regarding the housing of the display, I'll either find a suitable old TV case or make one, I don't fancy having a open frame sitting about with 50,000 volts around the rear. Heck if I go for the pentranic monitor I may get 2 and make 2 Pac-man sized cabs vertical and horizontal.....but ideally id just like to sit on the couch in the spare room playing them....thats why I thought of placing it inside a TV case.

[Matskat]

I've seen a few cabs with PCs running MAME on a 15kHz monitor, seems to work ok, so I don't think you need a tri-sync.

I have a mame pc in one of my cabinets.

All you need is 15hz.

Get an arcadevga card or use Real15hz (Google it)

[lettuce]

So if i did go for the 15khz over the Tri Sync monitor i guess i could always use my CGA2VGA device?

What would the effect be if say i was using the CGA2VGA and running a 31khz game (Mame) on the 15khz display, would scanlines still be present, any input lag etc?

[fagin]

Assuming I understand your query......

If you used a CGA2VGA scaler on your 15khz display, you would probably end up ripping the arse out of your display chassis!

Never send a (prolonged) incorrect scan to a CRT display..... it may end in tears.

The CGA2VGA converts CGA to VGA (15khz to 31khz).

[lettuce]

Assuming I understand your query......

If you used a CGA2VGA scaler on your 15khz display, you would probably end up ripping the arse out of your display chassis!

Never send a (prolonged) incorrect scan to a CRT display..... it may end in tears.

The CGA2VGA converts CGA to VGA (15khz to 31khz).

Hmm, right ok. Just that i was talking to the guy who has these monitors and he suggests a 15khz monitor with the CGV2GGA device to all his customers who are using MAME, im guessing that he has never destroyed a chassis by doing this.??...maybe i miss heard him then

[fagin]

He is talking bollocks then! lol

What the scaler does is in the name CGA 2 VGA (15kz t 31khz). A 15khz monitor cannot accept a 31khz signal.... it can accept a 480i signal (which is 15khz), but the CGA2VGA scaler only outputs a porgressive scan signal at 480p minimum (31khz+).

[lettuce]

He is talking bollocks then! lol

What the scaler does is in the name CGA 2 VGA (15kz t 31khz). A 15khz monitor cannot accept a 31khz signal.... it can accept a 480i signal (which is 15khz), but the CGA2VGA scaler only outputs a porgressive scan signal at 480p minimum (31khz+).

Thanks for the info. I'll quiz him about that then. Unless he was thinking of a different device?

[lettuce]

Ok he was referring to a, VGA to CGA Video Converter PCB (GBS8100)

http://www.jammaboards.com/store/vga-to ... s8100.html

that makes more sense then

[fagin]

I have one of those.... I would have done a YT video on it, but the quality is utter horse shit!! Beware.

[lettuce]

I have one of those.... I would have done a YT video on it, but the quality is utter horse shit!! Beware.

Really?, ok ill avoid that then lol.

The 15khz monitor im looking at doesnt have a VGA connection on it, just a breakout cable R,G,B,Hsync,Vsync,GND i believe. I take it i cant use the Sync Strike in this stance to connect the monitor via the screw terminals on the sync strike and then the vga port to the PC?

[shinjig]

I did get the makvision 27/29in tri mode monitor
http://na.suzohapp.com/monitors/49271500.htm

Worked fine until somehow my arcade had a short in the wiring which then sent 5vs through the ground line and messed up some of the horizonal and vertical holds. Though that was more on me I think. But it still works fine as long as you send it a signal thats close to ntsc standard (zn1, zn2, or PS2). I've been meaning to send the chassis to get fixed (probably some blow caps near the h&v holds). But otherwise I'd recommend the monitor. I built a frame for it which looks pretty nice.

[lettuce]

I did get the makvision 27/29in tri mode monitor
http://na.suzohapp.com/monitors/49271500.htm

Worked fine until somehow my arcade had a short in the wiring which then sent 5vs through the ground line and messed up some of the horizonal and vertical holds. Though that was more on me I think. But it still works fine as long as you send it a signal thats close to ntsc standard (zn1, zn2, or PS2). I've been meaning to send the chassis to get fixed (probably some blow caps near the h&v holds). But otherwise I'd recommend the monitor. I built a frame for it which looks pretty nice.

Nice, any pics?

[shinjig]

The monitor enclosement as well as some support structures that I was making for my custom cab though the finish photos of those aren't online.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 332&type=3

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nevuhphoto ... 6723007415

[lettuce]

Nice, thats the sort of housing i was thinking of making.

I take it you cant buy cases for open frame monitors?, much like the old Hantarex did a version of their monitors in a case

[rCadeGaming]

Ok gotcha!, so stuff up to PS1, Saturn would all be 15khz?, PS2 and Xbox 31khz if using progressive?, if not still 15khz?

For consoles, generally everything before the Dreamcast used a 15kHz resolution somewhere around 320x240 progressive (240p). There are some exceptions, certain like SNES, PSX, and N64 games which used higher interlaced resolutions, and maybe even a few higher progressive ones. These are extremely rare cases though.

From the Dreamcast forward, it is still possible to use 640x480 interlaced with a 15kHz TV/monitor, but 480p is usually with for DC, PS2, Gamecube, XBox, and Wii, and almost everything for PS3 and 360 can do 720p or 1080p. There are certain games for DC and newer systems that are around 240p, but they are very rare cases as well, and they are generally ports of something that could be played in MAME or an older console.

For MAME, most of the games worth playing are around 240p as well. In the old days, most games were much better in the arcade, in graphics, sound, control, everything. Arguably, there was a tipping point in the late nineties when console ports become at least as good, and often better, than the arcade originals. One of the best examples of this is Soul Calibur for the Dreamcast, which was immensely superior to the arcade version.

It requires a pretty fast computer to emulate newer games, and the emulation is often not as accurate or reliable anyhow. You're better off playing these games in MAME.

Am i right in saying that a 15khz picture form a 15khz only monitor is superior to that of a 15khz picture from a multisync monitor??

Absolutely. Multisync monitors have to be made with a finer dot pitch in order to display 24 and 31kHz resolutions. This means that they're a little too sharp for 15kHz/240p games. Someone above said that scanlines look thicker on a multisync, I think it's actually the opposite. Scanlines for 15kHz/240p tend to be too thin and undefined on multisyncs.

Furthermore, different 15kHz TV's/monitors look better than others. They all vary in dot pitch, scanline thickness, and color quality. I have a 27" 15kHz Zenith CRT TV that has too much color bleeding (partly due to the fact that it only accepts composite), resulting in almost no visible scan lines. I also have a 27" 15kHz Sony CRT TV that has fairly prominent scanlines. The individual pixels look much sharper on the Sony, but the scanlines provide a natural smoothing that makes the overall picture just beautiful. This is partly because I'm using a component signal, but the character and quality of the TV makes a big difference.

What is the max progressive res a 15khz monitor will do?

As stated above, it can do a max of about 320x240 progressive.

More info on resolutions:

kHz refers to the horizontal scan rate

15kHz is about 320x240 progressive (240p)

31kHz is about 640x480 progressive (480p)

24kHz are in between resolutions, usually only used by arcade games.

Above 480p, no one really refers to things in kHz.

720p is 1280x720 progressive

1080p is 1920x1080 progressive

Interlacing allows the resolution to double without increasing horizontal scan rate; 240p and 480i are both 15kHz resolutions. Progressive scan means that every vertical line is drawn in order, one at a time. At 320x240@60Hz progressive (240p), 240 vertical lines are drawn in order, 60 times per second. At 640x480@60Hz interlaced (480i), the odd 240 vertical lines (1st line, 3rd line, 5th line, etc.) are drawn during one frame, and then the even lines are drawn during the next frame. There are still 60 frames per second, but each frame is technically half of the picture.

It's a neat trick to allow higher resolutions on a monitor with a limited scan rate, but one of it's biggest problems is motion tearing. When an object starts moving horizontally on an interlaced picture it breaks up, because when the object is in motion, half of its pixels (the even half or the odd half) will always be one frame ahead of the other half.



Anyhow, I should probably stop rambling and offer some practical advice.

I agree with the others who have said you should stick with a 15kHz TV/monitor. Use it for everything pre-Dreamcast, and you'll be getting the best possible picture in most cases.

You don't necessarily need an arcade monitor though or a European SCART TV, a common American 15kHz TV can look just as good. Arcade monitors are getting expensive, and you're paying a lot of extra for something that will get harder and harder to find parts for and keep working. Great 15kHz TV's can be found on Craiglist and eBay for like $50, sometimes even free. You can use transcoders to convert both RGB SCART and VGA to component. As long as you use something that is strictly a transcoder, and not an upscaler, it will only convert colorspace, with zero lag and no loss in picture quality. As far as the geometry controls, its not tough to find something that should be a happy medium for the various consoles, and with the PC you'll have control of geometry on that end.

That brings up another thing. Don't get an ArcadeVGA. Using Soft15kHz/Powerstrip is both cheaper and more flexible (support for more resolutions, custom resolutions, full geometry control), you just need to buy a graphics card that is tested to work with Soft15kHz. Check this list:

http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthre ... afikkarten

Just determine if you need an AGP or PCI-Express card, and purchase any that is cheap and readily available. You don't need a powerful graphics card for MAME, the processor is much more important.

I've been through about a dozen cheap and free CRT TVs, and I've found that Sony Trinitrons can produce some of the most beautiful 15kHz video possible. They're very reliable as well. Anything that is Sony, is strictly 15kHz, and accepts component, will be fantastic. Watch out, as some Sony WEGA CRTs can do 480p, 720p, and even 1080i, and these aren't great for 15kHz.

My current setup for older consoles (mostly play Super Nintendo and Genesis, shopping for a PC Engine) is an RGB Scart connection to a transcoder, component connection to a Sony KV27-FS120, 27" CRT TV.

[lettuce]

Thanks for the info rCadeGaming!, one thing you mentioned about the dreamcast, I always used to play my dreamcast on my CRT scart tv when I was younger does that mean I was always getting a 480i image, as you said consoles up to the DC used 99% of the time 15khz?. As I can't remember noticing tearing when playing it

[fagin]

Someone above said that scanlines look thicker on a multisync, I think it's actually the opposite. Scanlines for 15kHz/240p tend to be too thin and undefined on multisyncs.

It's not the opposite comparing a 15khz arcade monitor to a 31khz arcade monitor converted to 15/24/31 chassis.

I am using component, but it's nearly as good with composite.

Have you had your eyes tested recently?

It's a neat trick to allow higher resolutions on a monitor with a limited scan rate, but one of it's biggest problems is motion tearing. When an object starts moving horizontally on an interlaced picture it breaks up, because when the object is in motion, half of its pixels (the even half or the odd half) will always be one frame ahead of the other half.

You're kidding me right?

Arcade monitors are getting expensive, and you're paying a lot of extra for something that will get harder and harder to find parts for and keep working.

That last bit really needs to be put into perspective. Any chassis I'm aware of for your mainline arcade monitors can be repaired. There are certainly engineers in the UK that will repair a chassis.... one very well known person in the UK will do it for £40 standard charge (and will cover most repairs). The biggest isue with a CRT is the tube going, but it you see it running and it's fine (if it's 2nd hand), I can't see anyone having an issue. If it's brand new, there is no reason why you wouldn't get at least 20yrs use out of it...... however the £5 CRT TV's available on eBay put everything into context (as you suggest).

That brings up another thing. Don't get an ArcadeVGA. Using Soft15kHz/Powerstrip is both cheaper and more flexible (support for more resolutions, custom resolutions, full geometry control), you just need to buy a graphics card that is tested to work with Soft15kHz.

That's a bit unfair..... an ArcadeVGA card is fit and forget - especially with it's boot protection.

[fagin]

Thanks for the info rCadeGaming!, one thing you mentioned about the dreamcast, I always used to play my dreamcast on my CRT scart tv when I was younger does that mean I was always getting a 480i image, as you said consoles up to the DC used 99% of the time 15khz?. As I can't remember noticing tearing when playing it

Most games via RGB SCART were 480i - your comment about "screen tearing" in 480i mode is exactly the reason for my comment to rCadeGaming's statement above.

So yes... it would have been 480i and I'm not surprised you don't remember any screen tearing.

[rCadeGaming]

Thanks for the info rCadeGaming!, one thing you mentioned about the dreamcast, I always used to play my dreamcast on my CRT scart tv when I was younger does that mean I was always getting a 480i image, as you said consoles up to the DC used 99% of the time 15khz?. As I can't remember noticing tearing when playing it

What I meant was that consoles before the Dreamcast used 15kHz 99% of the time. The Dreamcast itself capable of 480p for most of its games.

That being said, a VGA box is the best way to output video from the DC, and the way to get 480p. The composite connection can only do 480i. S-Video is certainly capable of 480p, not sure if the DC uses it that way, same thing with RGB SCART. Either way, I'm guessing that if it was a fairly old TV, then yes it was 480i. If the display was too blurry to see the individual lines of pixels, you may not have been able to notice the motion tearing.

There is something you need to realize about "SCART" as well. SCART is NOT a video format, its just a type of cable. It's kind of a universal cable, which is capable of transmitting composite, S-Video, and RGBs, with analog stereo audio.

For instance, RGB SCART is the best video format available from a Super Nintendo; but when your looking for a SCART cable for your SNES, you have to make sure its wired for RGB, otherwise it will be no better the standard yellow/red/white composite video plus audio cable. If you know the SCART pinout, you can open the connector and check the wiring, to see what kind of video it's using.

[rCadeGaming]

Someone above said that scanlines look thicker on a multisync, I think it's actually the opposite. Scanlines for 15kHz/240p tend to be too thin and undefined on multisyncs.

It's not the opposite comparing a 15khz arcade monitor to a 31khz arcade monitor converted to 15/24/31 chassis.

In my experience, the higher the scan rate supported, the finer the dot pitch will be, and the thinner the scanlines are. I think others have also confirmed this about multisync monitors.

However, I'm talking about monitors that were multisync from the factory. A 31kHz monitor, with a chassis modified for multisync is entirely different situation I haven't dealt with. I'm not disagreeing with you here.

I am using component, but it's nearly as good with composite.

Have you had your eyes tested recently?

No need for insults here. On my Sony KV27-FS120, I've compared the Super Nintendo, using both composite and RGB SCART transcoded to component. This TV handles composite extremely well, minimizing color bleeding and other problems, and it looks pretty good. Obviously, the RGB SCART still looks better, but its not a vast difference.

I realize that on most TV's/monitors, the difference is a bit bigger; and composite gets even worse once you get above 240p. I'll edit that part to make it a bit clearer.

It's a neat trick to allow higher resolutions on a monitor with a limited scan rate, but one of it's biggest problems is motion tearing. When an object starts moving horizontally on an interlaced picture it breaks up, because when the object is in motion, half of its pixels (the even half or the odd half) will always be one frame ahead of the other half.

You're kidding me right?

Ummm... No. You're saying that you don't think there is such a thing as the "motion tearing" I've described? Unless you're running your interlaced resolutions through a video processor or display with deinterlacing capabilities, there absolutely is. It's also referred to as interlacing artifacts, or interlace motion artifacts:

http://neuron2.net/LVG/interlacing.html

Older monitors can be too blurry to see it, but I can see it plain as day when playing Street Fighter IV in 480i on my 15kHz Sony TV's.

That last bit really needs to be put into perspective. Any chassis I'm aware of for your mainline arcade monitors can be repaired. There are certainly engineers in the UK that will repair a chassis.... one very well known person in the UK will do it for £40 standard charge (and will cover most repairs). The biggest isue with a CRT is the tube going, but it you see it running and it's fine (if it's 2nd hand), I can't see anyone having an issue. If it's brand new, there is no reason why you wouldn't get at least 20yrs use out of it...... however the £5 CRT TV's available on eBay put everything into context (as you suggest).

Yeah, I'm not saying it's impossible to get a long life out of an arcade monitor and find parts and service. I'm just saying it's cheaper and easier with a TV, and as far as 15kHz goes, I think you can get just as good of a picture with a good TV.

Lettuce, I should have asked this earlier. Do you live in the US, or in the UK, or anywhere else where SCART is common? Either way, TV's will work very well. You just need the extra SCART to component and VGA to component transcoders in the US. SCART TV's should accept 15kHz VGA, just need to combine the horizontal and vertical sync to composite sync.

That's a bit unfair..... an ArcadeVGA card is fit and forget - especially with it's boot protection

It is simpler, and not as flexible for custom resolutions and geometry settings.

Most games via RGB SCART were 480i

You mean on the Dreamcast right? Almost all games via RGB SCART were around 240p before the Dreamcast.