Score Rush and Decimation X3 on Steam? Good idea?

[Xonatron]

What do you think about Score Rush and Decimation X3 on Steam? Curious about pricing, achievements, copy protection, controls (keyboard/gamepads/etc.), everything...

...

Game info:

Score Rush:
http://xona.com/scorerush/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtuiCoQBwD8&hd=1
http://marketplace.xbox.com/Product/Sco ... 025855071c

Decimation X3:
http://xona.com/decimationx3/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEWWHUUJvxk&hd=1
http://marketplace.xbox.com/Product/Dec ... 0258550717

[Austin]

I think it is a great idea. The platform could use more games like these.

[kengou]

I definitely want to see more shmups on steam. If they're good games, I'd buy them. Hopefully there'll be demos.

Pricing, I'd expect them to be no more than $15, I don't think they'd sell at all above that price, frankly. Achievements, I don't really care at all, I don't know if people care that much about them on Steam compared to the xbox. But if they're already programmed in, it can't hurt to include them? Copy protection, I would be rather upset at anything more than Steam itself. Activation limits, always-online requirements, securerom, just don't do any of that. Please. Controls ought to have keyboard as an option at the very least, and regular USB gamepad support on top of that. Please don't support exclusively the 360 controller, I hate when games do that (looking at you, super meat boy!). Not everyone has that crappy controller lying around.

[Jeneki]

Pricing is an odd forum question, because obviously the dedicated fanbase are willing to pay a lot more than the general Steam populace.

Achievements are optional. They do not impact my purchase decisions.

Any more copy protection than what's already offered by Steam itself would have an impact on my desire to purchase them. I'm not interested in discussing of DRM.

Obviously, in-game remapping features are handy. However the best part about releasing a game on PC is there are a lot of programs available to remap buttons however I wish.

Please keep the game's correct aspect ratio on any shape of display. For example, if the game is intended to be played on a 16:9 aspect ratio, when I use a 4:3 or a 16:10 display I do not want the graphics stretched to fill the screen. Stretch-o-vision throws off the controls, causing the player to move at the wrong angles, or faster up/down than left/right, etc. Throw in a static background behind the play area if you really feel the need to "fill the screen".

[Observer]

I definitely want to see more shmups on steam. If they're good games, I'd buy them. Hopefully there'll be demos.

Pricing, I'd expect them to be no more than $15, I don't think they'd sell at all above that price, frankly. Achievements, I don't really care at all, I don't know if people care that much about them on Steam compared to the xbox. But if they're already programmed in, it can't hurt to include them? Copy protection, I would be rather upset at anything more than Steam itself. Activation limits, always-online requirements, securerom, just don't do any of that. Please. Controls ought to have keyboard as an option at the very least, and regular USB gamepad support on top of that. Please don't support exclusively the 360 controller, I hate when games do that (looking at you, super meat boy!). Not everyone has that crappy controller lying around.

Pretty much this.

NO DRM. At all. Why? Steam itself is one, albeit a lenient example since you can run in offline mode, it's free, you have a forum where you can go bawww if something went wrong, etc. Plus the fact that it's been around for nearly a decade. I just goggled XBLA+download+any-download-service and you already get a bunch of XBLA-ripped games to try in a modded 360. The least we talk about the Wii, the better. So why stabbing to death legitimate users with pointless stuff, someone who doesn't want to pay it will not pay, look at the Indie Bundle case (I bought it twice though!).

The controls are very important, nothing upsets some PC players more than having to suffer a poorly conceived impossible-to-configure consolised monster. I still have nightmares with RE4. That's how bad it was until they modded the hell out of it to make it great.

If the keys alone don't cut it, think about including the mouse. If that alone looks confusing, better to lecture the players in the use of Xpadder and such applications so they can use whatever suits them.

Achievements, while a plus, are not necessary for me but for the new generations, I get the slight feeling that they aren't going to play one without them...

Scoreboards of course. Steam now has that announcement system thing that can let you easily organise score tourneys and other news. Obviously, cheaters will arise. But those are everywhere.

Agreed on the screen size too, better to have a background/wallpaper (maybe even customisable!) and avoid stretching.

A replay feature and probably a way of having the scoreboards include them just for the lulz and to see how the pros play.

What else, I mentioned this on Twitter: some sort of possibility of having a "default" bullet colour set and a chance of making them all a certain colour. Except purple. I don't ever wanna see purple again.

If the game has gigantic displays of pyrotechnics, a little photosensitive seizure warning should be added just in case. I'm a stone golem, barely anything affects me but I've seen people pretty affected by some of the shooters I play. Obviously, the worst case would be Beat Hazard. It's the eyes destroyer.

Having both on Steam (at the same time? perhaps make a Xona Shooting Pack for the release, offering a discount and what not) might pave the way and even create a following for Duality ZF later on.

edit: multi-language manual would also help as well, especially for Europe. This could be done after the release anyway.

Also, I just realised it's a good way of testing the waters and people's different configurations to see how the game behaves in them.

Perhaps consider including a fps counter. If certain amount of slowdown is reached, the replay isn't saved. For example, I think Touhou shooters require a delay of no more than 1~2% or else it assumes you cleared the game in bullet time mode lol.

edit2: Tell Jason he shouldn't worry about the integration now, that will be done later when and if Valve replies. They created a plugin or something that integrates with XNA easily. In fact, Zeit2, Beat Hazard and a couple more games on Steam are XNA-based. There is also a wiki and a site you will be able to log in later.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Score Rush and Decimation X3 on Steam? Good idea?

Yes very much so. Steam is crying out for a good arcade shmup, especially one like SR

pricing

£10 - £15 i feel is a good price (ild pay double that for SR but im a shmup fan) add another £5 or so for online multiplayer / leaderboards

achievements

why not, even though i personally dont need them top get my jollies they could make a fun distration, just dont integrate them any anyway that will force me to take part in it so that I can unlock some major part of the gameplay. That been said I do like Crimson Clovers shop system and the fun unlockables in Genetos.

copy protection

For steam release, no 3rd party DRM is needed, I understand you indies need your DRM (world of goo had 90% piracy rate) but steam is enough. For eg that Zeit2 using TAGES that limits the amount of installs to 3 on a Steam where the local content is installed and deleted to save HD space is bloody insane, epecially for a shmup that can be enjoyed for years on end. However if youre not using steam and publishing games on DVD then DRM is a nessecery evil in my book (TAGES still sucks though)

controls (keyboard/gamepads/etc.)

Im a pad player and hate been forced to use a 360 pad, also as Windows 7 is so crap when it comes to any pad settings and profiles, implimenting the option to define our own buttons (on pad and keyboard) aswell as set up my analog sticks deadzones, in score rush it would be a really great thing as Xpadder deadzone settings usually dont work in most games. Mouse might be a good idea but if you do impliment it PLEASE PLEASE make it a seperate game mode or atleast put and mouse controlled highscores in a seperate catagory. I dont what any highscore leaderboards ruined because all the mouse players have an unfair advantage over traditional controllers. Also I guess try to make the game compattable with as many arcade sticks as possible im always seeing ppl posting in PC shmup threads that their stick wont work.

everything...

nothing else comes to mind just make sure it controls precisly and has no input lagg or inertia EDIT how about anything that makes use of our 14:10 monitors, like 2 vertizontals side by side (like twinkle star sprites) or a traditional shmup that has a really long playarea (like Darius or a mix between DDP and space invaders extreame DS) ETIT: woot I didnt know SR was a widescreen vertizonal, ive been wanting to play a widescreen shmup for quite awhile now

EDIT

Please don't support exclusively the 360 controller, I hate when games do that (looking at you, super meat boy!). Not everyone has that crappy controller lying around.

Even Super Meat Boys aswell? damn this shit is getting too common nowadays. I bought SMB at the Xmas sales and havnt got round to playing it yet. I was planning on playing through it this weekend. I hope theres some way I can by pass it

[Zeether]

Yes.

and if you could get duality zf on there it would be nice too :3

[kengou]

Even Super Meat Boys aswell? damn this shit is getting too common nowadays. I bought SMB at the Xmas sales and havnt got round to playing it yet. I was planning on playing through it this weekend. I hope theres some way I can by pass it

I had to download a 360 pad emulator which tricks meat boy into thinking my usb pad was a 360 pad. I heard they might have patched in support of a few more controllers recently, not so sure though. If you have troubles pm me for that emulator.

[Kaspal]

I definitely want to see more shmups on steam. If they're good games, I'd buy them. Hopefully there'll be demos.

Pricing, I'd expect them to be no more than $15, I don't think they'd sell at all above that price, frankly. Achievements, I don't really care at all, I don't know if people care that much about them on Steam compared to the xbox. But if they're already programmed in, it can't hurt to include them? Copy protection, I would be rather upset at anything more than Steam itself. Activation limits, always-online requirements, securerom, just don't do any of that. Please. Controls ought to have keyboard as an option at the very least, and regular USB gamepad support on top of that. Please don't support exclusively the 360 controller, I hate when games do that (looking at you, super meat boy!). Not everyone has that crappy controller lying around.

Pretty much this.

NO DRM. At all. Why? Steam itself is one, albeit a lenient example since you can run in offline mode, it's free, you have a forum where you can go bawww if something went wrong, etc. Plus the fact that it's been around for nearly a decade. I just goggled XBLA+download+any-download-service and you already get a bunch of XBLA-ripped games to try in a modded 360. The least we talk about the Wii, the better. So why stabbing to death legitimate users with pointless stuff, someone who doesn't want to pay it will not pay, look at the Indie Bundle case (I bought it twice though!).

The controls are very important, nothing upsets some PC players more than having to suffer a poorly conceived impossible-to-configure consolised monster. I still have nightmares with RE4. That's how bad it was until they modded the hell out of it to make it great.

If the keys alone don't cut it, think about including the mouse. If that alone looks confusing, better to lecture the players in the use of Xpadder and such applications so they can use whatever suits them.

Achievements, while a plus, are not necessary for me but for the new generations, I get the slight feeling that they aren't going to play one without them...

Scoreboards of course. Steam now has that announcement system thing that can let you easily organise score tourneys and other news. Obviously, cheaters will arise. But those are everywhere.

Agreed on the screen size too, better to have a background/wallpaper (maybe even customisable!) and avoid stretching.

A replay feature and probably a way of having the scoreboards include them just for the lulz and to see how the pros play.

What else, I mentioned this on Twitter: some sort of possibility of having a "default" bullet colour set and a chance of making them all a certain colour. Except purple. I don't ever wanna see purple again.

If the game has gigantic displays of pyrotechnics, a little photosensitive seizure warning should be added just in case. I'm a stone golem, barely anything affects me but I've seen people pretty affected by some of the shooters I play. Obviously, the worst case would be Beat Hazard. It's the eyes destroyer.

Having both on Steam (at the same time? perhaps make a Xona Shooting Pack for the release, offering a discount and what not) might pave the way and even create a following for Duality ZF later on.

edit: multi-language manual would also help as well, especially for Europe. This could be done after the release anyway.

Also, I just realised it's a good way of testing the waters and people's different configurations to see how the game behaves in them.

Perhaps consider including a fps counter. If certain amount of slowdown is reached, the replay isn't saved. For example, I think Touhou shooters require a delay of no more than 1~2% or else it assumes you cleared the game in bullet time mode lol.

edit2: Tell Jason he shouldn't worry about the integration now, that will be done later when and if Valve replies. They created a plugin or something that integrates with XNA easily. In fact, Zeit2, Beat Hazard and a couple more games on Steam are XNA-based. There is also a wiki and a site you will be able to log in later.

what he said.

i'd buy your games in a heart beat if you release them not as one game butas a pack... and i'd pay 10 bux or so for it with no problems. Just hurry up and make it happen, cuz i've been dying to play your offerings (specially dualityZF)... just please, dont use no DRM on them (Steam is enough) and implement a keyboard support... i dont have a pad (nor am planning to get one) on my lappy.

[MadScientist]

Please don't support exclusively the 360 controller, I hate when games do that (looking at you, super meat boy!)

Super Meat Boy has supported generic controllers for a few weeks now.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

i'd buy your games in a heart beat if you release them not as one game butas a pack... and i'd pay 10 bux or so for it with no problems

$10 for both games? you cheapskate!

[Jason]

I definitely want to see more shmups on steam. If they're good games, I'd buy them. Hopefully there'll be demos.

Pricing, I'd expect them to be no more than $15, I don't think they'd sell at all above that price, frankly. Achievements, I don't really care at all, I don't know if people care that much about them on Steam compared to the xbox. But if they're already programmed in, it can't hurt to include them? Copy protection, I would be rather upset at anything more than Steam itself. Activation limits, always-online requirements, securerom, just don't do any of that. Please. Controls ought to have keyboard as an option at the very least, and regular USB gamepad support on top of that. Please don't support exclusively the 360 controller, I hate when games do that (looking at you, super meat boy!). Not everyone has that crappy controller lying around.

I agree with everything here.

In fact, I agree with everything that has been posted in this entire thread.

Thanks for your input.

Super Meat Boy requires an Xbox 360 controller on the PC? Ok, I see they've fixed that, but still very surprised.

[antares]

I think both games would sell well on iOS. I'd buy them.

[Xonatron]

Thank you all for your input. Great stuff. Don't judge this short reply as though I haven't listened. All your feedback is very important to us.

[Observer]

Well, I just remembered one thing out of the blue: when going multi-language, ALWAYS give an option to switch back and forth languages. Never force a locale. Some games do this and it's a pain in the rear. It's always better to be able to pick the language, either at the beginning or later on through the options menu.

Good luck with this and hope it works out. Steam will eventually let off a lot of steam (...), vapor, smoke and missile trails...

[Austin]

As far as pricing, no more than $5 a pop. If i remember right, I only paid a dollar or two each on the 360.

Keep in mind you are competing with stuff like Geometry Wars and Bullet Candy, both under $5 (and the later is still updated!). There are other similar titles like Everyday Shooter that sell for $10, but judging by their forum activity I doubt they sell a lot outside of the indie bundle packs.

[Xonatron]

The prices for both games on Xbox LIVE were $1 USD, or 80 Microsoft Points. Don't confuse that price for the actual value of the game, however. And I can already see this is going to happen, if the price on Steam is higher, because of the comparison. Just yet another flaw with the Xbox LIVE Indie Games platform.

The pricing choice of $1 USD on XBLIG was decided based on performance, with analysis on many hundreds of other XBLIG games that are priced at $1, $3, and $5, as well as ones who have changed their price. It is clear the $1 price point was the best performing, but this is only on the XBLIG platform mind you. The reasoning is deep, but mostly it's because the reputation of the platform precedes the reputation of the developer or of the game as well as lack of leaderboards and achievements. It's easy to spend $1 on a game that gives you no credit, but once you spend $3 or $5, you might as well buy an older XBLA game or one that's on sale (that gives you credit).

I was thinking of price both of these tiltes at $3 or $5, and then putting them on sale for $1.

EDIT: I'm not saying my thoughts are correct, but the XBLIG platform is a brutal economy, that does neither the developer or the gamer justice. Still interested in your thoughts.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Dirt cheap and free games although great for gamers who are skint or cheapskates but does have an effect of undervaluing better quality games of the same genres. While this isnt so bad for say 2D fighters and 2D plaformers as there are enough gamers (and reviewers) out there who can see the value in the likes of SF4 or Mario Bros Wii. More niche or less understood genres like shmups have a large problem as most gamers cant see (and arnt been told) the value between say a cave game and something for a dollar. This lowers the quality of all shooters been made as devs work with tighter budgets.

[Jason]

Well guys, I've just ported Score Rush to the online browser platform, Turbulenz with over 30 Leaderboards and 30 Badges.

This is about as cross platform as you can get, since it's a single platform that runs in the browser, on any machine, at any resolution. Also, it's fully social, has friends, messaging, and as I said, leaderboards and badges. It's a work in progress, both are in beta.

A few updates:
- There is slowdown control.
- You get a new bomb on death.

Please note:
- Xbox 360 controller works with plug-in version (go into settings, as default is HTML5; no plug-in).
- Give it a minute to load!! -- loading screen isn't finished

What do you guys think?

P.S. Good chance we may start working on some tech to bring to Steam... more info to come shortly!!

[Kaiser]

I was thinking of price both of these tiltes at $3 or $5, and then putting them on sale for $1.

Good idea, way to promote yourself with cheap titles then eventually at one point in time and space, also bring over Duality ZF (once the exclusivity deal is over) to Steam and people will definitely 10 to 15 bucks for it without a doubt. ALSO Steam is a service, IT IS NOT DRM for referrence. That's a huge difference right there. You know what DRM is? TAGES, Securom and other nasty stuff. Steam doesn't restrict your number of installations, doesn't get in your way, installs the necessary apps for games WITHOUT you clicking even. So come on, get over it, days of Steam being a subpar service are far long gone like a dead horse, you have to be silly to keep saying it.

Also good riddance to people who don't even have a 1mbit connection which is enough to keep steam running.