Settle the score: Deathsmiles VS Trouble Witches

[casualcoder]

Lolita/Young girl themed shooter: check
Familiar/option: check

Forest stage, castle stage, lava stage, ice stage, train stage, etc: check, check, check, check, check. 

I  could go on but these similarities are the most glaring. Now, I know that trouble witches came out originally as a pc game way back in 2007 and deathsmiles saw it's arcade release around the same time, but that begs the question: who copied who? I like both games, but perhaps it's the Cave fanboy in me that always assumed Cave wouldn't have to resort to copying ideas so explicitly from another developer - the exact same staging especially. 

I'm not sure anymore because I've read some reports that trouble witches actually goes back even further before 2007.  I do far prefer Deathsmiles, so if i found out it wasnt as original an idea as I had thought, it would probably take it down a notch in my mind. Can anyone elucidate this any further?

[ratikal]

Deathsmiles II has a trap. Therefore it is the superior game.

[Aliquantic]

I say Cotton

[cuttingagent]

I say Cotton

So true.

[Deets]

Both games draw on tropes and visual/design elements that have been around forever

Thread over

[Jason X]

Trouble Witches wins for not stealing a level wholesale from someone else. Deathsmiles is the more professionally-made piece of work, though.

[Moniker]

Haven't played Cotton, but pretty much everything in Trouble Witches was in Magical Chase.

[Jaimers]

Trouble Witches has the best voice acting your argument is invalid.

[rancor]

Trouble Witches all the way. I love Cave and all that BS, but the entire Deathsmiles series has just never worked for me.
Trouble Witches also has a bit of history before 2007 - Beta releases were put out for more than a year before the final release at various Comiket events. I believe that ZenErik has one of the beta discs in a lot of doujin titles he won at auction.

[SuperSoaker360]

The Deathsmiles characters can shoot left.
Therefore, they are superior.

[evil_ash_xero]

DeathSmiles. No contest.

Not DS II though.

[Avatar Ignis]

DeathSmiles. No contest.

Not DS II though.

Is there more to hate in DSII besides the awful graphics and enemy designs?


I'd say deathsmiles over trouble witches but not by much. The scoring is a bit more interesting and the music is definitely superior.

[iconoclast]

Is there more to hate in DSII besides the awful graphics and enemy designs?

No, DS2 is way better than the first game but it's normally overlooked because it has crappy graphics.

[Cuilan]

They both play so differently that it's silly to compare them like this. Overall, I'd call it even.

Deathsmiles II has a trap. Therefore it is the superior game.

One of the bosses in Trouble Witches is a trap.

http://trouble_witches.mails.ne.jp/xbox360_chara_boss5.htm

[Skykid]

They both play so differently that it's silly to compare them like this. Overall, I'd call it even.

Deathsmiles II has a trap. Therefore it is the superior game.

One of the bosses in Trouble Witches is a trap.

13 years old too.

Bonus.

[Casper<3]

DS MBL 1.1 > DSXII > Trouble Witches > DS

[Vyxx]

Trouble Witches all the way. I love Cave and all that BS, but the entire Deathsmiles series has just never worked for me.

Same goes for me, and I really wanted to like DeathSmiles

[shmuppyLove]

omg the voice acting in Trouble Witches ... that is the worst thing I have ever heard in my entire life.

Death Smiles wins just for that, but DS is also a pretty fun game. I had to play it a bunch before I really got to like it, at first the cheesy 3D rendered lolis put me off, but the game plays very nicely, has a fairly easy to grip (though difficult to master!) scoring system, and that's what it really boils down to.

[SuperSoaker360]

One of the bosses in Trouble Witches is a trap.

13 years old too.

Bonus.

Lei in Deathsmiles II is 12. He's more fresh.

[Iron Peach]

DS for letting me shoot a giant cow in the face, and Tyrannosatan let's not forget him! Plus overall production quality, floats DS to the top.

[Observer]

DS vs. Trouble Witches? Who wins? I say Armed Police Batrider!

edit: Elixir is the mascot of that stage boss? Never saw that coming! A magical creature from another dimension.


In all seriousness, I think DS for the same reasons stated above. The music and Tyrannosatan alone crank things up a lot. TW is so fucking sugar-coated I feel like I'm getting diabetes just from seeing it. ARGH!

[Cuilan]

Just in case some people don't know :

In Trouble Witches Neo, you can change the voices (and text) to Japanese in the options menu.

[Skykid]

Trouble Witches all the way. I love Cave and all that BS, but the entire Deathsmiles series has just never worked for me.

Same goes for me, and I really wanted to like DeathSmiles

So did I but it's not very fun.

One of the bosses in Trouble Witches is a trap.

13 years old too.

Bonus.

Lei in Deathsmiles II is 12. He's more fresh.

Ass like a ten year old boy.

[casualcoder]

Both games draw on tropes and visual/design elements that have been around forever

Thread over

I think you're the only one who actually read my original post rather than just the subject line

But, I disagree with your conclusion. Yes, both do borrow themes that have been around. No doubt about that. However, the question is not do they both borrow themes, but rather which game - as a whole - presented the combined themes first?

What you're saying is kind of like Justin Timberlake isn't original because he borrowed from Michael Jackson, who isn't original because he borrowed from James Brown, who isn't original because... etc etc etc. I mean, if complete originality is the yardstick then nobody would ever measure-up. I think the closest you can get to originality is taking in from as many different sources possible for your inspiration. In that definition, whichever of these two games came first arguably drew upon the greatest amount of sources, whereas the other one just drew upon that one source. Ergo, the one that came first must be the more original game of the two



Oh, and, yeah I don't think its much debate... DS all the way regardless. I think its a brilliant game.

[casualcoder]

Just in case some people don't know :

In Trouble Witches Neo, you can change the voices (and text) to Japanese in the options menu.

And, amazingly, its actually (slightly) less annoying than the English(ish) voices. I turned on the Japanese voices just because i couldn't stand hearing some dude say "oohhh shoot... ohhh shoot... oooh shoot" over and over again. Seriously the most grating voice in any game I can think of.

[casualcoder]

DeathSmiles. No contest.

Not DS II though.

I'm still having a hard time getting past the polygons (wtf?) for that one. Completely out of character and uninspired art design. Nonetheless the scoring still seems top notch so, one day I'm sure i'll get into it.

[casualcoder]

Trouble Witches all the way. I love Cave and all that BS, but the entire Deathsmiles series has just never worked for me.
Trouble Witches also has a bit of history before 2007 - Beta releases were put out for more than a year before the final release at various Comiket events. I believe that ZenErik has one of the beta discs in a lot of doujin titles he won at auction.

Yes! I think that's what i'm referring to. I can't really find any information about it, however. I don't know how close the level design is to the "NEO" version out now to properly compare. Hmmm, my suspicion is that PWN is the chicken and DS the egg. Ahh fuck it.

[Casper<3]

Both games draw on tropes and visual/design elements that have been around forever

Thread over

I think you're the only one who actually read my original post rather than just the subject line

I read your post but the thread title was much more fun to respond to. lol

[Illyrian]

Trouble Witches has the best voice acting your argument is invalid.

Oh goddamn you Jaimers that was unnecessary!

[hzt]

However, the question is not do they both borrow themes, but rather which game - as a whole - presented the combined themes first?

Cotton

I like both of them but I never thought about this at all, maybe because the scoring and style of play is quite different and that's the most salient part of the games to me. I doubt one really "copied" the other though, they're both just full of stuff that's all over the place in Japanese game/anime pop culture.