The future of shmups on the PS3

[originalz]

I'm referring in terms of sales! No question that the PS2 had some quality games, but they weren't the blockbusters that people seem to think would occur if they were moved to the PS3.

[ancestral-knowledge]

sorry for taking out an old thread but i think this is somewhat relevant . Besides, opening a new thread is even worse.

Could it be that the overall quantity of ports for shmups rises when your console allows region-locking?

This is only a vague asumption though. I mean it's clear there are other reasons, that were already mentioned, like difficult programming and such but i always wonder that maybe the ability to region-lock is very important for shmups in overall. I still have the feeling that some japanese shmup developers are very elitist who don't want their games to get outside japan. I know this might sound silly but what's the point of region-locking all shmups to japan ? Why are most PS2 shmups region locked to japan too?

My friend owns a PS3. As far as he has told me that the PS3 has no region locking on games while the XBOX allows region locking. I loved the concept of throwing away these silly region locks but now i've heard from my friend that they will reintroduce region-locking on the PS3 again. What the heck? I cannot believe that. I'm no expert but i always wonder if this could be one of the main problems why the PS3 has no shmups. Simply because it doesn't allow region locking for games. Other than that i could only imagine that Sony has really fucked up and annoyed many companies so they decided to screw them.

This question bothers me for 3 years now. Why region-lock a game? Where is the benefit for doing so?

[StarCreator]

The reasons region locks exist has been done to death - by eliminating an easy import path, you stand to collect more money from overseas publishers since no one has to worry about losing sales to those who have imported the game already.

At this point CAVE, the biggest STG publisher on the 360, seems hell bent on getting their titles overseas on their terms, so I don't think they're region locking out of pure xenophobia. They seem to think there's money to be made by region locking their more marketable games (DFK, Akai Katana) in the hopes of either getting an overseas publisher to license it or getting it on Games on Demand themselves, while cutting their losses on the less popular titles (MMP/PS).

[Elixir]

sorry for taking out an old thread but i think this is somewhat relevant . Besides, opening a new thread is even worse.

Could it be that the overall quantity of ports for shmups rises when your console allows region-locking?

This is only a vague asumption though. I mean it's clear there are other reasons, that were already mentioned, like difficult programming and such but i always wonder that maybe the ability to region-lock is very important for shmups in overall. I still have the feeling that some japanese shmup developers are very elitist who don't want their games to get outside japan. I know this might sound silly but what's the point of region-locking all shmups to japan ? Why are most PS2 shmups region locked to japan too?

I've spoken to Takeshi Osako of Qute and he was more than happy to make Eschatos region-free. Yotsubane was more than grateful that foreigners took interest in his game. Asada has made English comments and Futari, Galuda II, and MMP/PS are region-free. I'm pretty sure Yagawa knows his games are more popular in the west than the east as well. Triangle Service's Shooting Love was the first game to actively use "shmups", a word that doesn't exist in Japanese, in their game.

So, no, it isn't elitism. If anything, the lack of shmups on PS3 is Sony's fault, because they have royalties towards exclusivity, and they've actually said that if developers make content for Japanese 360's market, the developer's royalties will be short. It gives them no incentive to port these titles.

[ancestral-knowledge]

Thank you for that clarification. I'm very relieved that it turns out that my assumption about the elitism is wrong.


It's kinda ironic... Sony as a japanese company being such a bitch that many japanese developers choose the american microsoft over them.

What you both said somewhat verifies my point that having the option to region lock seems to be important for certain marketing strategies of some companies. Furthermore it implies that bypassing the usual import path by buying from playasia we're doing just the wrong thing from their perspective.

kind regards

a.-k.

[Last_Dancer]

Shame on you Sony for not moneyhatting Shmups

Choosing the 360 without a Backup Plan was the wrong decision, heres an interview with G.rev CEO Hiroyuki Maruyama:

http://gen16.com/archives/9578/intervie ... i-maruyama

Basically, G.Rev never bothered with the PS3, G.Rev is disapponted how things turned out with the 360, XboxLive rules are not favoring Shmups anymore, and now they are stuck with the 360, switching to the more succesful PS3 is not possible, 360-market is shrinking every day, thus no more Shmup in the near future.

Japanese RPG developers were smarter, they left the sinking 360-ship because of devastating sales and now every J-RPG is on PS3 and selling well, Shmup developers bet on the wrong horse for too long, and now its too late for them.

Multiplatform made Shmup succesfull in the past, its now too late for ports of 360 Shmups on PS3, better luck next Generation

[originalz]

Yeah man, I'm sure those 2500 units of Mamoru-kun sold on the PS3 really made them realize what a mistake it was to not go multiplatform from the beginning.

[jochen]

Multiplatform made Shmup succesfull in the past

I disagree - thinking about the 16 bit era many shmups were exclusive.

We never saw a version of gradius on the Sega-Genesis. Musha Aleste or Gynoug were never ported
to the Snes, Super Aleste or Axelay never played on the Genesis. The reasons - politic ( don´t
risk the hate of Nintendo ) and technical reasons ( mode7 on Snes, faster Genesis ).

( games like Aeroblaster or Truxton were both on the PC-Engine and the Genesis, but many of the
Engine-games never left japan )

Years later games like Battle Garega, Radiant Silvergun, Kingdom Grandprix were only available
on the japanese Sega-Saturn - again often japan exclusives.

Harmuful Park, Gaia Seed, Xanac x xanac - only on the japanese PS1.

I have to admit that during the PS1 / Saturn and Dreamcast / PS2 - era more games were
released on two or more consoles ( Thunderforce 5, Donpachi, Dodonpachi, Gundbird,
Psyvariar2, Shikigami no Shiro-Series ) - but as said above - at least many games
were exclusive.

Shmup developers bet on the wrong horse for too long

It seems to me that at least Cave made some money with their exclusice shmups on
the XBox 360 - you don´t port about 10 games over the years on a low selling console
in japan if you sell nothing.

Caves future with games from other genres and with new consoles in the future - well -
we have to see that will be.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

( games like Aeroblaster or Truxton were both on the PC-Engine and the Genesis, but many of the PC Engine-games never left japan )

The reason why of the name changing of the USA Turbografx-16 release of "Aeroblasters" was because of the Genesis version of "Air Buster" was already released in America. To avoid name infringement, thus the name change to avoid a lawsuit between NEC of USA and Sega of America. Potential situation averted.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Elixir]

Check Last_Dancer's posting history before making a response. What a joke.

[jochen]

Obviously he is not a big fan of the Xbox360.

[Casey120]

The Sony dick is balls deep with this one

[neorichieb1971]

The PS3 is tough to code to get results like uncharted 2, but to get a shmup running it can't be that difficult.

I agree Sony are dicks putting restrictions on the content side of things. But I also agree that a 3:4 shmup on a 16:9 screen is ridiculous.

If I were Sony i'd get them to do a 720 Deathsmiles though.

[RonanN1]

MAME was just ported to PS3

[BPzeBanshee]

MAME was just ported to PS3

FBANext is already on the PS3 and working quite well, so there's a bit of competition there. I wonder if MAME's PS3 port will actually have anything that FBANext PS3 doesn't have already.

Too bad none of it's going to the Wii. The Wii port of SDLMAME is complete crap and never updated, and I think if a bit of serious optimisation efforts were put into it the Wii Homebrew community would really appreciate it.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

If anything I think its XBLAs low pricing structure for their 2D games that is really hurting Japanese shmup devs. It could very well be that MS stopping Cave from releasing their games on XBLA was a blessing in disguise. I prefer boxed for my best shmups but I still hope GOD can become a good alternative which will allow niche devs to create quality games and still turn a profit. Hopefully in the future we can get some facts to how DS2X sold compared to Guwange. It would be nice if Cave we a little more forthcoming as to how their 360 games sell instead of keeping us fans guessing all the time.

[bcass]

Microsoft never stopped Cave releasing games on XBLA. Microsoft stopped 5pb from releasing TWO ports on XBLA (DOJ and Ketsui). This happened over 2 years ago when 5pb first announced that they had acquired the publishing rights to those 2 games.

This is only about the millionth time this inaccuracy has had to be corrected on these forums.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Hehe I knew someone was gonna bring that up as I was just coming back to change it. However its still worth considering this: Although it was 5pB's two Cave ports that was cockblocked, im sure that any plans Cave might of had for releasing other titles on XBLA were blocked as well, due to MS publicly stating at the time that they didnt want any more arcade ports on XBLA

So one could argue that Cave had to go the boxed route even if Cave had no intention of releasing their games on XBLA (which I doubt)

[mesh control]

Xbox Live Arcade (No ports, please)

[bcass]

Microsoft's stance on ports changed a long time ago.

[originalz]

If anything, maybe it ended up being for the best. Once Cave saw that there was a demand for shooters on the system and that DOJBL sold pretty decently at retail they seemed to have become interested in making ports and releasing them on their own. Maybe that would have never happened if we only had budget XBLA releases.

[casualcoder]

Sony really dropped the ball on this one I think. You would have to assume that Sony had an opportunity to court major shmup devs at one point and simply chose not to, thereby granting exclusivity deals for Microsoft. Shmups are still a major component in the arcade, Japanese market, and hardcore gaming circles and excluding most major devs has just handed off a large portion of devotees over to Microsoft. Sony probably figured a dev like Cave would naturally want to release on the PS3, but why would they almost double their developer resources for what is arguably a sliver of the market (shmup gamers who only own a ps3)

I for one put off getting an X360 for ages buts since it had become apparent that little was going to be released on the ps3 shmupwise, I had no choice and now I, astonishingly, find myself favoring my X360 for everything other than online multiplayer. Hopefully Sony learned from this experience by the time they release the ps4.