Dodonpachi Saidaioujou

[evil_ash_xero]

I've totally not been following this thread....so the difficulty is back? Or am I dreaming?

[O. Van Bruce]

I've totally not been following this thread....so the difficulty is back? Or am I dreaming?

You don't have to know anything, just look at my sig and go any of this days to a department store to get the materials you'll need.

[evil_ash_xero]

After watching a play through of it....WELL...I am dismayed at the tone of the game. But I was dismayed at the tone of the the last DDP game. Also, the stages all look about the same(blue neon), and the music is too chirpy.

That being said, the game looks bonkers. That's something the last game was missing...big time.

I'm really shocked that it looks this difficult. Took them long enough.

[Udderdude]

Amazing how CAVE can go from colorful pixel art style, to dark, gritty military pre-rendered .. then to overly bright, shiny plastic iMac looking enemies all in the same series >_>

[Cagar]

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[system11]

Just saw a video playthrough. Thoughts:

1) Too much blue.
2) Music is nice aside from stage 3 which made me skip to the boss.
3) Way, way too much blue.
4) Too difficult.
5) They're still using the SHlowdown3 hardware.

Won't be buying this one, possibly not even as a home port. That initial loop on what looked like defaults is too much for me, wouldn't enjoy it at all.

[O. Van Bruce]

Just saw a video playthrough. Thoughts:

1) Too much blue.
2) Music is nice aside from stage 3 which made me skip to the boss.
3) Way, way too much blue.
4) Too difficult.
5) They're still using the SHlowdown3 hardware.

Won't be buying this one, possibly not even as a home port. That initial loop on what looked like defaults is too much for me, wouldn't enjoy it at all.

you can't be serious, with some planning it should be possible to clear the last stages...

[Formless God]

4) Too difficult.

Wha ... It's a STG.

[system11]

4) Too difficult.

Wha ... It's a STG.

There's no rule that states shmups need to be brutally difficult, as shown by the majority that aren't. If people wanted an insane challenge then I'm happy for them, I think this will go down well with players who liked DOJ. It's not for me though.

And it's still way too blue, laziest backgrounds ever.

[O. Van Bruce]

4) Too difficult.

Wha ... It's a STG.

There's no rule that states shmups need to be brutally difficult, as shown by the majority that aren't. If people wanted an insane challenge then I'm happy for them, I think this will go down well with players who liked DOJ. It's not for me though.

And it's still way too blue, laziest backgrounds ever.

Just a question: The responsable for the Hrdware used on the arcades are the same companies that makes the software? There is a better hardware than the SH3 that Cave can use for their games?

I have almost no idea about any arcade related issue.

[Cagar]

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[system11]

Just a question: The responsable for the Hrdware used on the arcades are the same companies that makes the software? There is a better hardware than the SH3 that Cave can use for their games?

I have almost no idea about any arcade related issue.

Pass on whether there's better hardware available, no idea. SH3 is pretty old now, and it's very clearly struggling to run SDOJ just like it was with Akai Katana. In fact they've been pushing it too hard pretty much since it came out. Still, it's better to have it on that hardware than Type X or something equally wretched, at least these PCBs work on standard cabinets.

In a moment, someone will step in and suggest all slowdown in Cave games is intentional. It's not. Some perhaps, but all the way through recent titles there has been evidence of totally uncontrolled frame drops and gluts just because it can't cope. Still better than suffering Type X though

[trap15]

Just a question: The responsable for the Hrdware used on the arcades are the same companies that makes the software? There is a better hardware than the SH3 that Cave can use for their games?

I have almost no idea about any arcade related issue.

Basically the only other thing they can go to anymore is Type X or some other horrible PC-based hardware, but I don't think they want to try that again since the abomination that was DeathSmiles 2.

[system11]

And it's still way too blue, laziest backgrounds ever.

How much does that really matter?

You're right, they should just replace it with black backgrounds.

It matters a lot when you charge $2k for the product, and when the series has a history of pretty decent backgrounds. It's not immediately clear which stage you're looking at because they all look about the same. They could have done better, like they have so many times before.

[O. Van Bruce]

Who makes the hardware then? Who can press for the development of a better hardware?

[trap15]

Who makes the hardware then? Who can press for the development of a better hardware?

Pretty sure CAVE makes the hardware. IKD or YGW could probably get a request for better hardware fulfilled, but I don't think they have any reason to. This hardware works, and it probably isn't worth their money to try to make new hardware.

[O. Van Bruce]

Why is a PC-Hardware horrible? Alright, Deathsmiles was made with polygons but shouldn't a PC be able to run any normal sprite based game too?

And what is Type X?

so many questions

[trap15]

Type X is Taito's PC-based hardware. I wrote a pretty extensive article on why PC-based hardware is awful here: http://daifukkat.su/2012/01/pc-arcade-analysis/

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Slowdown looks smooth and intentional (I think) on this game. SH3 should be plenty powerful enough to push those final boss patterns that show constant slowdowns. The only games that come to mind where it doesn't always look completely planned on are the Katanas when it starts slideshowing. I don't know why you would want it faster anyway if it's already too hard for you. Slowdown makes it easier.

[eckart]

It seems they created the first three level backgrounds on one image and cut it than into three parts.
Anyway, i thought sawing the first videos mounth ago, why did they color the water in level 3 also blue.
Yellow or orange water, please!

Not sure if the comunication case a good thing. I mean if you play this game a hundred of times, it maybe gets boring. But maybe it is ok.

My opinion:

+ art work all in all
+ soundtrack
+ green led hyper container
+ intro voice
+ gameplay hopefully

- ingame comunication case
- maybe the difficulty. - Can`t judge bevore i play it.

Hope this is not cave`s last arcade shooter. Sometimes i thought it watching the videos.
Who knows..

[SuperPang]

Why is a PC-Hardware horrible?

Having had two Deathsmiles 2 systems fuck up in transit I can confirm that PC based hardware is a pain in the arse. The system was a financial failure for Cave. Their lack of 3D experience really showed and It took version 4.0 before it was balanced and bug free. It's extremely unreliable and fragile hardware too. Operators hated it, Cave lost money fixing it. So yeah, that's why CV1000 is back and it's a fantastic little board. We're lucky Cave are having one last stab at the arcade market at all tbh.

[Cagar]

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[Gus]

4) Too difficult.

Wha ... It's a STG.

This. Really, S/L seem to be pretty average Cave difficulty.

[O. Van Bruce]

Have read about the Drawbacks of PC-based arcade cabinets.

About the software, I can't really understand the relation bettwen ease of programing -> crappy games. And even if there are crappy games on the market, there should be, as allways, game companies who develop high quality games. In fact, shouldn't it be easier to create more complex and deep games when you can easily program what you want in your game?

About the hardware, kinda shocked at the issue than most of the PC-Hardware based are the same as your average home PC. Shouldn't they continue the "cutting-edge" tradition and use servers (those computers that cost 4000 to 5000 euros) on the cabinets? That would really revive arcade gaming since the processing capacity of those computers/arcade cabinets should make the games very attractive to the people. Even more in this age of "good looking games are the best". That would even solve the Bootleging issue since there isn't too much people willing to buy a 4000 euros computer just to play games.

[moozooh]

About the software, I can't really understand the relation bettwen ease of programing -> crappy games. And even if there are crappy games on the market, there should be, as allways, game companies who develop high quality games. In fact, shouldn't it be easier to create more complex and deep games when you can easily program what you want in your game?

Because highly skilled embedded systems programmers won't agree to a salary a uni graduate would ask for, doing the same job. The difference in expertise will not be cost-effective, and when you're a small department that has to make profit, you kinda want to be cost-effective. Two financial failures in a row could mean closure.

Shouldn't they continue the "cutting-edge" tradition and use servers (those computers that cost 4000 to 5000 euros) on the cabinets? That would really revive arcade gaming since the processing capacity of those computers/arcade cabinets should make the games very attractive to the people. Even more in this age of "good looking games are the best". That would even solve the Bootleging issue since there isn't too much people willing to buy a 4000 euros computer just to play games.

...Did you even think this through? Imagine you're an arcade operator. You charge 1 euro (slightly above 100 yen) for a coin, because charging more is evidently pointless.

Cave releases a game that appears nice, and charges 5000 euros for it. It means you will need people to put 5000 coins in this particular machine, plus nearly the same amount for covering electricity bills. You will never make a profit with this game. Moreover, if it flops you're going to lose thousands of euros per cab.

All that aside, no game these days needs an expensive server to run. No arcade game needs Crysis-level visuals either because beautiful games require time to appreciate their design. Arcade games, however, are fast-paced and time-limited, so that is pointless.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Have read about the Drawbacks of PC-based arcade cabinets.

About the software, I can't really understand the relation bettwen ease of programing -> crappy games.

"The absence of limitations is the enemy of art" (Orson Welles). If it wasn't for limitations we wouldn't have gotten the game genres we did from the early days, at least not nearly as fast. It would have been straight to first person shooters. You wouldn't have any of the cool sounds from old sound chips. You wouldn't have Mario.

And even if there are crappy games on the market, there should be, as allways, game companies who develop high quality games. In fact, shouldn't it be easier to create more complex and deep games when you can easily program what you want in your game?

About the hardware, kinda shocked at the issue than most of the PC-Hardware based are the same as your average home PC. Shouldn't they continue the "cutting-edge" tradition and use servers (those computers that cost 4000 to 5000 euros) on the cabinets? That would really revive arcade gaming since the processing capacity of those computers/arcade cabinets should make the games very attractive to the people. Even more in this age of "good looking games are the best". That would even solve the Bootleging issue since there isn't too much people willing to buy a 4000 euros computer just to play games.

Those are the worst things in the world. Complete death for collectors or ever archiving the games. The only problem with the SH3 hardware for arcades is they don't use all the sound rom slots so they just downgrade the sound quality to save $3 in chips. The base is already there though for better sound quality should they choose to stop being pointlessly cheap.

[moozooh]

By the way, I wonder what would it take for them to upgrade their blitter for, say, double the fillrate? At least it wouldn't go below 30 fps then, although I would prefer just slow bullets to bullets suddenly turning slow and then suddenly accelerating again.

[NzzpNzzp]

Shouldn't they continue the "cutting-edge" tradition and use servers (those computers that cost 4000 to 5000 euros) on the cabinets?

That's just a huge waste of money on power that's not even going to get used.

[O. Van Bruce]

Shouldn't they continue the "cutting-edge" tradition and use servers (those computers that cost 4000 to 5000 euros) on the cabinets? That would really revive arcade gaming since the processing capacity of those computers/arcade cabinets should make the games very attractive to the people. Even more in this age of "good looking games are the best". That would even solve the Bootleging issue since there isn't too much people willing to buy a 4000 euros computer just to play games.

...Did you even think this through? Imagine you're an arcade operator. You charge 1 euro (slightly above 100 yen) for a coin, because charging more is evidently pointless.

Cave releases a game that appears nice, and charges 5000 euros for it. It means you will need people to put 5000 coins in this particular machine, plus nearly the same amount for covering electricity bills. You will never make a profit with this game. Moreover, if it flops you're going to lose thousands of euros per cab.

All that aside, no game these days needs an expensive server to run. No arcade game needs Crysis-level visuals either because beautiful games require time to appreciate their design. Arcade games, however, are fast-paced and time-limited, so that is pointless.

Hmm, Seems I've missunderstood something. I was talking from my PC perspective: one hardware to run average games, just like a PC. A "Cabinet" (The server) would run a game (A software). Cave would only release the software (the game).

That cabinet would be useful until the PC-industry would develop home PC's with the same characteristics of the servers. Then, a new "generation" of arcade cabinets would be born.

Another Idea would be to use a Server to run different cabinets and different games.

I'm just talking what comes to my head. I remind you that I almost don't know anything about arcades.

PD: Forget about servers, that was just a figure of speech, let's simply say "computers that double or triple your average PC capacity".

PPD: Maybe I should stop talking since I may have been making big mistakes. Be kind to me

[kid aphex]

And it's still way too blue, laziest backgrounds ever.

How much does that really matter?

Uh, a lot?
Not every person plays these games for the exact same reason.
It always blows my mind when the players on these boards are ok with reducing shmups down to their mechanics. Yes, gameplay is important... but it's not equally important to all players. I come to shmups for lots of different reasons--- Cave games usually rely heavily on solid aesthetic design to maintain a level of visual novelty long enough that I don't get bored of seeing the same 5 levels a thousand times.
This game just looks garish; I could barely stand watching a single play-through.